Worried about my wife.......

[BritishBeef]

Hi there,
My son is only 2 weeks old and we are already at our limits. I guess that sounds pathetic and both my wife and I feel failures to be feeling this way so early on.

My wife had a lot of problems breastfeeding in during the first week due to our son having a very strong suction and also managing to 'click' whilst sucking which caused my wife so much pain that she cried whilst feeding. We had 3 different midwives confirm that he was latched on perfectly and couldn't work out what was going wrong. Things got better a few days ago and breastfeeding was bearable. In the last few days however, our son has been wanting feeding every 2 hours and his feeding time has lengthened to an hour or more meaning that my wife is feeding as much as she's not including 3 times during the night and again her nipples are getting painful. The rest of the time he is really grisly and won't settle meaning we are getting no rest. We tried winding etc. but no use. We take him out in the afternoon for an hour (he will usually sleep then). Yesterday he was awake for the best part of 16 hours out of 24 and most of that was grisly or crying.

Today, he's doing his feeding cues straight after an hour long feed. The feed is not constant and by the end it's as if he's just comfort sucking but like I said, as soon as he's removed from the breast he makes out that he wants feeding again. My wife changes breasts half way through but still no joy.

His weight is fine and when we discuss these sorts of things with the MW's they just say there's no problem because his weight is fine.

My real concern however is the strain on my wife. She's very tearful lately and says she can't cope anymore with the constant feeding and no rest. I'm finding it nearly as stressful and as I have suffered the last 5 years with mental illness (anxiety, stress, OCD, health anxiety) I am worried about myself too. I don't want to become depressed like I have in the past and I really don't want my wife to go down that route either.

We are considering switching to formula but that makes us feel total failures and guilty especially as the MW's have rammed it down our necks that not to breastfeed is wrong.

I really don't know what to do and would appreciate some advice.

Hi British Beef

Just wanted to say what is happening to you at the moment is exactly what happened with us and DD. I used lots of Lasinoh and made sure I offered both sides when feeding. Other than that I just hung in there until eventually she went onto 2 hourly feeding, then 3 hourly - it does get better.

Be strong and look after each other.

Good luck.

I have just read the whole thread (i really should be washing up!), and kept thinking whether you had thought of reflux. My dd was just like your ds. She would be awake for hours, she would squirm about, never appeared truely relaxed, and would take hours to settle following night feeds, by which time she was hungry again. I gave up breast feeding at 8 weeks, switched to formula and saw no improvement.

The fact that your ds is worse, again comfirms the reflux theory, as formula is not as gentle on his tummy, and therefore can irritate the condition.

I would take him to see your GP, and ask if you could try gaviscon. He may be suffering from silent reflux, as my dd did, which means they are not always sick. I used to be able to hear my dd swallowing whatever had come up, and this can make it twice as painful.

I really feel for you both, as it took me ten weeks for somebody to stop dismissing me as a neurotic new mum, by which time I was exhausted and my confidence had taken a bashing.

Colief helped when our dd1 had colic (screaming at every feed, thrashing around etc), we also found Dr Brown's bottles helpful (they cut down on gas), I know lots of people advise against this but we also changed formula's,which made a difference. Good luck,

There's a reflux/unsettled baby thread in the Health section.

what a great man you are to post, as you sound so supportive. DO NOT feel bad/guilty whatever.I bf for a year, it nearly killed me emotionally, i thought i was depressed, as soon as i stopped bf i felt so much better. I wont do it again for that long, its just pressure from hv & all those idiots

hi British beef.
Agree with the potential reflux suggestion. My mate's DS was exactly the same.

It was only when she went to an NCT ante natal group get together and she saw what other babies did after their feed she realised all the screaming and writhing post feed for her babe was unusual. Baby was put on Gavison etc.

Some ideas

1. Heard that aptimal (spell?) formula is the most gentle
2. Worth writing down 24-48hrs of a log of behaviour. eg. amount taken, when the crying starts and description of behaviour and anythomg brought up. when sleeps and for how long etc.

The reason I suggest it is that it gives you ammo to go and have a proper discussion with GP and not be dismissed as neurotic first time parents.

Another quick update.

Went to doctor with him today. He's got the start of excema on his face and so have been prescribed some cream for that.

Last night was the worst night yet. He slept for just a total of 2 hours. I completely lost it. I'm just too tired.

The doctor thinks it's likely to be colic and recommended Colief (what a pain that stuff is to prepare with formula - how are you supposed to wait for boiled water to cool then wait another 30 minutes for the colief to mix through when you've got a screaming hungry baby?!!)

If we don't get any improvement after a couple of days the doctor said she'll prescribe some Gaviscon for him to see if it's Reflux although she didn't seem to think it was likely.

Would just say that aptimel USED to be a great formula (reflux-y dd drank it up), but I think they have changed the formulation by adding more probiotics, and it can make reflux-y babies worse, a bit burpy and bilious. ds (dc#2) was combo bf and bottle fed, and I started off on aptimel, and eventually changed to cow and gate organic, which suited him. Hipp was a burpy pukey disaster.
Don't wait to be prescribed gaviscon, just buy it yourself from the chemist. And have you thought of cranial osteopathy? Was great for both my dc, as was gaviscon. best of luck.

Also, I do think that a lot of doctors never beleive babies have reflux, so they haven't always got a great track record on diagnosis. Trust your own instinct. Really hope things improve for you all.

British Beef,

Can't you make the bottles up in advance and store them in the fridge. I know the new guidelines don't recommend this but honestly there are lots of us out there who did it like this for a first baby, had no problems and saw no reason not to continue with it for a second even if the guidelines had changed in the interim. The guidelines have been tightened up but if you are scrupulously clean and careful "bottling up" then really you don't need to make each one fresh each time.

I used to make up a batch of say 6 bottles at a time, cool them, mark them with the time they were made (chinagraph pen from stationers shop) and pop them in the fridge, microwaving them gentky when needed. I know microwaving si forwned upon too but if you shake the bottle thoroughly it's no more likely to create hotspots in the bottle than warming up in a jug of hot water or cooling one down in a jug of cold water.

We did try colief with ds1 and I seem to remember that you couldn't keep a bottle of milk with it added for as long as one without but I don't know the current colief instructions for use are.

There are several old threads on making and storing bottles if you search on formula feeding bottles or something.

I so wish I could come round "bottle up" for you and take over for a night to give you both a rest.

This phase won't last for ever, just take things one day at a time, things will improve.

Do you have any family that can help or get something like a a night nanny for one night just to give you a break? I know a night nanny is expensive.. but for one night might be worth it. (sorry - I live in London maybe these things don't exist outside the big smoke!)

But you guys sound at the end of your rope (not suprisingly) and am just thinking if there is a anyway you can get some sleep. The smallest thing is insurmountable when you have had this little sleep. not that you need reminding of that i know. my heart goes out to you.

Try your local pharmacists for colic relief . Our local one used to sell one that they made themselves. You were supposed to feed it off a spoon before a feed, but I put it in the bottle and as she sucked she farted like a trooper! It's always worth talking to your pharmacist for advice.

BTW I'm not one!

BB - prop up the head of the cot/moses basket - rolled up towel under the mattress. It will help if he has reflux.

When he's pushing away from you turn him around and hold him facing outwards over your arm and supporting him under his bum. If it's colic rather than reflux the extra pressure on his tum may help.

Is there anyone who can take him for the night to give you both one decent night's sleep? You must be knackered.

fed up is absolutely right, i pre-made all bottles w water and put them in fridge, and then microwaved them after adding formula powder (and gaviscon or whatever). Do a trial run so you know exactly how many seconds you put it on for. Also, take it in shifts at night so that at least ONE of you can get some sleep. After a few months, I didn't even bother putting them in the fridge, and ds preferred it all room temperature anyway.

please do follow the manufacturer's advice on how to make up bottles, it is there because formula is NOT STERILE, the water needs to be hot enough to kill any bugs in it.

I always had the days bottles made up in the morning, just let them cool down and don't put them on the fridge door (it's supposed to be warmer), I don't know about any new guidelines but it didn't do my 2 any harm. I can't say enough good things about cranial oesteopathy either. It was a life saver for us.

BB, sorry haven't had time to read this thread so you may have answered this already but do you have any supportive family/friends nearby?? Sounds like you could both do with an hour or two out of the house with someone else in charge of the baby. Honestly, when you are at your absolute wits end, just even having half an hour away from the blessed baby can restore your sanity just a bit.
Really feeling for you - its hard to believe but this will get better at some point. All the best to you and your family.

more info

Could mum or MIL come round and help during the day so that your wife could sleep.

A dose of sleep makes everything seem clearer and more bearable.

Formula milk powder was never sterile even before the new guidelines.

Boobs are not sterile either.

I stand by the fact that if you are careful with hygiene when preparing feeds, it is O.K. to bottle up in advance providing you bear in mind the need to heat to 70c to kill any bacteria which might, not are, but might have found their way into the formula milk powder.

Thanks again for the replies. We do have family that can help. In fact, my parents took him off our hands for a few hours the other day.

With regards to the formula making up - can I make up feeds with freshly boiled water or do I have to wait for the water to cool a little?

Our DS is at this very moment screaming and has been ever since his feed 2 hours ago. He has never been this bad - he normally just thrashes about and whinges none stop.

Another thing!
As we have been recommended to try Colief, would it not be easier to just try him on Lactose free formula instead of the rigmarole of treating normal formula with Colief? Doesn't Colief just break down the lactose? Surely that's the same thing in the end?

The official line on preparing FF is:

'To ensure that any harmful bacteria are killed, formula should be prepared using water that is at least 70°C. Agency advice to parents is, ideally, to make up formula milk using freshly boiled water that has been left to cool for no more than half an hour to reduce the risk of babies becoming ill'

So surely I can make it up with boiling water and THEN cool it? Any ideas?

British Beef,

Here, have a laugh at my expense.

With ds1 I drove myself mental with waiting 30/40 minutes after the kettle had boiled to make up each batch of bottles and kept forgetting bursting into tears and having to re-boil the kettle if say it had got to an hour after the kettle boiled.

I finally 'phoned the helpline who said that waiting the 30/40 minutes was the advice for if you were then going to give the bottle straight to baby and that it was OK to make up the bottles as soon as the water had cooled to a temperature whereby it was possible to handle the bottles without burning your hands on them. I felt foolish but never looked back.

With ds2 I put the kettle on to boil and set the kitchen timer for 35 mins, whilst it was boiling/cooling I washed and sterlised 6 bottles ready to use when the kitchen timer went ping. Took about 5 mins to add powder to water, shake thoroughly and stand in deep flat bottomed bowls of very cold water to cool. Replaced cold water in dishes after 10 mins or so with more cold water to ensure cooled properly and then labelled with time and put in main body of fridge (not the door rack as not cold enough) at top. Maximum time/effort about 15 mins and voila enough feeds for anywhere from 16 to 24 hours depending on bottle size and freqency of feeding.

Reheated bottles to right temp in microwave - after a few attempts you learn the exact number of seconds to heat the bottles for to get them to the right temperature and can do it when half asleep.

With all due respect to fishie, she breastfed and I was a formula feeder (twice over). There are many many other posters on an old thread who made up bottles in advance. I had a friend who was G.P. before babies and by her second child she made up bottles in advance even after the guidelines changed.

You do need to read up on the colief instructions though and see how you can use it in conjunction with pre-made cooled bottles.