Why do some people feel that they must breastfeed at any cost?

[Moomin8]

I’ve got plenty of experience of both types of feeding - I breastfed two of my children until 2 years. They were great feeders - I had no problems.

My other two children for various reasons ended up having formula. One was 3 weeks early, severely jaundiced and my milk was slower to come in than it should. I didn’t want her going into hospital for uv therapy. The other couldn’t feed well and was eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia, later. She would get tired and not take enough bm.

Now, I see this lady on Instagram who has a 6 week old baby who weighs only 7 pounds and he was born at term weighing 6 pounds. He clearly is not thriving. Every time I see a picture of him I cringe. And his mother is about my age (40) and this is baby #6 for her.

I would be the first to say that breast IS best. But only if the child is thriving surely?

How can a baby make the necessary brain development in those early weeks if they aren’t picking up weight?

I know that society makes women feel like formula is evil. But sometimes I think it’s better than breastfeeding when the baby isn’t thriving.

@Moomin8 but your “debate” is based on the idea that there are actually people out there who breastfeed “at any cost” - and you’re using this woman as an example when actually you don’t know any of the details.

I doubt there is a single woman out there who has breastfed to the detriment of her baby (absent mental health issues). A lot of women give it a go, struggle for numerous reasons and move to formula if it doesn’t work out (which is obviously fine). These breastfeeding nazis who persist even though their baby is starving just don’t exist. Health professionals wouldn’t allow it for one thing.

I dont know why it is surprising though, I see a lot of posts on MN from people more concerned with the 'experience' of birth/having a newborn than the health of the baby.

Women with breach babies still wanting to attempt normal delivery, women livid doctors performed an intervention when the baby was in distress, older first time mums adamant they want a home birth.

It is all madness IMO.

I think it's much easier to see the bigger picture that fed is best in hindsight, but with a newborn your emotions are raging

Absolutely this. I was depressed from not being able to feed her myself. I cried all day, everyday. For the weeks I continue to try. She’s 2 now and I look back and think why the hell did I get myself into that state?

Also it’s the first thing people ask when you have a new baby, if you say bottle a good percentage of people make you feel like shit, even if it’s unintentional.

@HarrietM87 yes it’s a discussion. You don’t have to participate if you don’t want to.

Some people do bf at any cost or think they have to no matter what and don’t look at the bigger picture like how their baby is actually feeling. I’ve come across it before. We all have different experiences in life.

"I doubt there is a single woman out there who has breastfed to the detriment of her baby (absent mental health issues"

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I've seen evidence of it.

Health professionals won't allow it? Wake up, love. What are they going to do? Take the baby off the mum for what? Failure to thrive? Maybe if the baby is literally starving to death but I have a friend whose baby was very very underweight for exactly this reason and nothing was even said, let alone done.

@TheSkyWasDark what happened to the baby in the end?

I’ve had lots of friends with bf issues and they had loads of medical appointments and weigh ins and were very much “in the system”. All were put under lots of pressure to stop bf. Some did and some didn’t. All wanted the best for their babies. All the babies have turned out fine in the end.

Caveat - some years ago, but in my professional, upper middle class cohort, I was the only one who FF, and everyone else was jealous at that time that I could feed and put down in 30 minutes, every three or four hours.

Never heard of "virgin gut" that must be new as well. But don't lots of mums and babies get antibiotics now as well, in which case, there's no such thing. Also don't you need to have a vaginal birth to get the gut bacteria needed to start the process, which is again negated by C Sections with antibiotic use in delivery??

Basically, no-one has a perfect delivery, feeding routine, sleeping routine, etc etc. New mums need to be supported by the healthcare system in whatever decisions they make, and MN posters should do the same.

"All the babies have turned out fine in the end."

Oh well, it's fine that they were hungry for the first weeks of their lives then, as long as they were fine in the end.

This thread is a perfect example of people being smug for feeding - and then saying its OK in a slightly patronizing way - that FF is fine. But you don't do you? Also everyone else justifying (as if you need to) why they 'ended' up FF.

In my first pregnancy I had three scans before my first midwife appointment. At this appointment (at which point I was still worrying about not losing the pregnancy) she asked me how I was planning to feed the baby.

And then at every.single.appointment. On the posters on the walls. In the antenatal classes. On here. Everywhere with the underlying message that you are a SHIT mother if you don't breastfeed.

I tried. So hard. Had all the support. But it DIDN'T work. Couldn't feed my already underweight child enough food. Pumped, had someone round, latched this way and that way.

Had to feed my child. So I did.

Fast forward to DC2 and DH asked me not to try to breastfeed. He asked for my mental health and the dark place I went to because I had absorbed all that thinking that breastfeeding was the only thing that made me a mother.

As the OP's example - it could be dangerous. Women are already vulnerable, hormonal, tired. No one has any right to judge or be smug.

Most of the problems mums come in with are simply normal infant behaviour, they just don’t know it because auntie/granny/friends are telling them babies should be be doing x,y,z and a little bottle of formula here and there would solve all their ‘problems’.

This is interesting @Peapod29 and I wonder if it is because a lot of the current ‘grandparent’ generation were at the peak of ff when they themselves were new mothers. Despite being happy to feed him on demand (once the problems of the first couple of weeks were ironed out) I was frequently told that he was feeding ‘too often’ & had to rely on the midwife & HV to back me up against some family and friends. Even DP was a bit concerned about the amount of time spent breastfeeding & it wasn’t until hearing about how normal this was from the midwife that he understood. We need to share more information about what breastfeeding is really like in the early weeks.

"Also everyone else justifying (as if you need to) why they 'ended' up FF."

You did the same tbf.

@TheSkyWasDark you don’t know they were “hungry” or for how long. Babies weight gain isn’t always linear, or connected to feeding. Sometimes babies retain fluid from the birth which gives them an inflated birth weight, some have medical conditions etc etc - there are a lot of assumptions in your posts. But they were being checked regularly by medical professionals.

The point I would make is that every woman and child is different and it doesn’t help anyone to judge others. Particularly when feeding your baby is such an emotional thing, and particularly when you don’t have all (or any) of the facts. For the same reasons it’s impossible to generalise.

Harriet, no I don't know, but I know enough to know it must happen sometimes.

You see women on here all the time about their babies screaming at the breast while they desperately try to get it to latch and it's just not happening. Sorry but no way was I letting my son cry and scream because I felt I had to breastfeed.

I totally agree, though there are reasons occasionally. My baby is very slow growing in breast milk, but refuses bottles. Top ups would have certainly been reccomended, if we'd been able to do them - and that would have been great as we wanted to mix feed anyway. So my tiny child has just grown very slowly (albiet healthily). Interestingly, although she's now over a year and so on 3 meals a day and 2 snacks (and she's a good eater) and breast milk in between and at night, she's still following her (very tiny) line.

So it's possible that they can't top up, but in most cases i totally agree with you OP.

@TheSkyWasDark newsflash: babies cry! there’s a world of difference between wanting to do it and giving it a go then finding it’s not working and doing it “at all costs”.

I’m glad you made the decision that was right for you and your baby. It’s also fine for other people to make different decisions.

Harriet where did I say others can't make their own decision?

Anyway, you're not arguing in good faith so nothing more to be said to you.

there’s a world of difference between wanting to do it and giving it a go then finding it’s not working and doing it “at all costs”.

Where in your eyes is the cut off? How much weight does a baby have to lose? How long do they need to be hungry/dehydrated for? How many breastfeeding counsellor appointments?

I'm a paediatric nurse and seen several babies, where breastfeeding is just not working. Mum is stressed and baby is dehydrated so they need IV fluids.The mums couldn't have tried any harder, but they just needed to give formula.

Because she hasn't been told she can supplement her baby with her own milk and why would you think formula has to be the answer? I breastfed because it's best, simple as that. I made sure it worked because it's best, any baby can struggle with weight gain at the beginning, doesnt make formula the best choice. I'm pressured to use formula all the time, oh when hes 1 you can give him cows milk.. made for baby cows. Oh he will be hanging off of you when hes 15 because he loves boob so much, oh how terrible of me for giving my baby something that comforts him. Oh stuff some rusks and shitty baby rice in a bottle of formula and try and force your baby to sleep longer than biologically normal because your baby is so sluggish from being stuffed full of crap and increase their risk of SIDs. Great. Theres no pressure from anybody to continue breastfeeding, it's me who wants to do it, because it's best for my baby,simple as that. So why wouldn't you try your very best to do the best thing you could?most women who give up breastfeeding could have breastfed with support and perseverance and understanding of cluster feeding and growth spurts, I see the opposite, women giving up needlessly due to lack of support and education on the subject.

@Wolfgirrl I’d say the cut off is for each parent and midwife/health visitor to decide. Personally I would never see my baby dehydrated/starving and I would seek medical advice if I had any concerns.

@TheSkyWasDark you’ve implicitly criticised your friend’s decision to bf when her baby was underweight. Do you think she should have given her baby formula?

Don't know about anywhere else but my local midwifery services are pushing breast is best antenatally to a level that put me off breastfeeding even though I planned to and did (I had a word with the head midwife about it too, she seemed confused that you could possibly be making it less likely for people to do a thing by constantly nagging them). Then your support at birth is totally dependent on whether the experienced midwife is on shift. Then once you get out of hospital the least sign of dropping weight and they're at you to formula feed. It's fucking insane.

AND all their information is out of date, FFS it's been illegal to advertise infant formula for almost as long as I've been alive! Not one of the mums they serve has ever SEEN an ad for stage 1 formula!

Babies all cry but you can see when a baby is actually malnourished and it’s shocking in this case. Honestly, I can’t show pictures for obvious reasons but you would understand if you saw them.

Imagine being totally helpless and someone has the power to satisfy your hunger and thirst but they don’t because they are caught up in this bubble of I’ve always bf so I have to carry on.

Nobody should be pressuring anyone to use formula either but as weeks turn into months and you still have a baby who is unsettled because they don’t feel satiated and they are still underweight and jaundiced, there is a time to say enough is enough.

What are the psychological effects on a baby whose needs are not being met? And who is feeling hungry / thirsty all the time?

I think some women need to hear that formula isn’t evil.

@Ilovelala you sound like you really stressed yourself out for what is essentially a negligible benefit.

I went through a couple weeks of stress to give my baby the best, why wouldn't you ?