is my hv talking nonsense? my baby is 23 days old and shes telling me to top up

[kittenbaby]

hi girls
my little baby is now 23 days old
i do find bf harder at night than in the morning [does sem to be less milk than in the mornings]
she is ex bf on demand
baby was born weighing 8 4 and a half
13 days later her weight went down to 7 11
hv said dd had to gain at least 4-5 oz in the next wk or we would have to rethink bf
and that maybe i should give her a formula top up
everything ive ive read says babys can and do lose weight in the 1st week or two
and one of the worse things to do to wreck bf is to give top ups of formula
so i decided to keep going only bf
then on tue one week after she was weighed again and had put on 6 and a half oz
weighing in at 8 1 and a half
so i thought yes shes put on more than 4-5oz
its working
but my hv still said that i should think about giving a top of formula
but will this make it harder for my baby to switch between the two?
or that if i dont want to give formula to express
what do you guys think should i be giving her tops ups ?
im only a first timer

i did try to phone abf but it just made me feel worse to be honest
she was just slating formula and saying why would you give your baby that filth

which didnt really help much

My DD only once managed 7oz in 2 weeks, the rest of the time I was lucky if she managed 3oz a week. The nurses at the baby clinic weren't unduly worried, as long as she was happy and healthy and putting on weight (as in not losing it) the actual amount wasn't an issue.

But then I don't live in the UK where formula is so ruthlessly promoted by so-called health professionals. If you're worried about not being able to stand up to your HV by yourself, why don't you ring one of the BF helplines and see if someone can accompany you to your next weigh in, to give you moral support?

well she said i have to go again next week [ this is the first time ive gone a fortnight]

and that dd can only go another week max without gaining enough weight
making m fel like im harming her

KB, you don't have to do anything, it's entirely your choice. Oooh, I hate these bullies who try to undermine people's confidence.

KB - did the association of breastfeeding mothers person really, really say that?

I am and - if that is what she said, then please think about making a complaint.

I am from NCT and if any of us said that on the helpline, or slated formula, they would be stopped from speaking to mothers immediately - believe me. And I can't think ABM would be any different.

However, if you don't want to give formula, you don't have to. Ask the HV what will happen if your baby does not gain weight the way she thinks she ought to - and consider not going to the clinic.

My dd only weighed 10lb 7 at 13 weeks and she was totally fine, she's now 5 and a half and tall for her age

You don't have to go back next week and if I were you I wouldn't bother. If your baby is happy, alert, producing wet and dirty nappies and is bright eyed then weight gain doesn't matter. 7oz (half a pound) in 2 weeks is normal so I don't know why this woman is telling you otherwise.

You're her mother and you decide where you go not her or your mother. You are not harming her. I think it's time you stood up to them both and tell them where to go. Tell them you're happy with the way she is coming on and that you don't appreciate her trying to bully you into having formula.

Tell her if she carries on you'll be making a complaint about her.

tiktok good advice about my mother i certainly wont tell het hv is telling me to top up are she will be on my case too

although i had to go into hospital last week to she the consultant about my repair from 4th degree tear operation ,which was a horrible and painful,this was on thursday, and she hasnt even called to see how it went or how i am
oh she did send a text, how thoughtful of her
im so sick of her
i just dont even want to talk to her
let alone get bf support from her

she's prob love this
she doesnt ben know that ive been told to top up since day 13 ...how sad
i really hope my dd doesnt grow up feeling the same way about me as i feel about her
but im sure i wont be like her

sorry went on a bit there didnt i lol

You know - you don't need to see a HV. You can stop going and just enjoy your baby.

I'd have killed for an average of 3.5+oz a week average weight gain - yet my baby is is now a healthy 7 year old, on the 50th centile for both height and weight (I've only just bothered going and checking, after probably about a year or more). He was never a "Failire to Thrive" baby - although some ignorant HVs might have categorised him as such, looking at his growth charts (born 91st, big inital drop, 7 weeks to regain birthweight, dropped through the growth curves till started follwoing a line just underneath the bottom one, eventually started creeping up and then followed the 25th, before eventually creeping up to to the 50th, where he has remained). Happy, healthy and alert throughout - barring a short period of sleepiness early on, due to neo-natal jaundice.

Reember centiles are averages - as jellybelly pointed out on this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/1364/383944?stamp=070919095758 (which you should look at to give you strength)

"And anyway if your baby is healthy and developing normally it really doesn't matter. The whole point of an 'average' or a 'centile' is that it represents a huge range. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to be 'average' and I don't know why so many HVs Drs etc think everyone should strive for it. Makes them feel as though they are doing something constructive I guess.

(I have a long waffle prepared about how if all efforts to get low weight babies to increase their weight worked then the magical averages/centiles just increase anyway, hence the next batch of babies have a higher average to reach and people perpetually get fatter and fatter and fatter.... But I won't go into that, lol )"

Your baby is fine. Not just fine - your baby is doing brilliantly - and so are you

STOP GOING TO GET HER WEIGHED.

Start just enjoying this time with her - they are only this wee for such a short time. You are doing a great job.

Is she still between 9th and 25th centiles?

If so then she is following her centile line, is NOT NOT NOT having a low weight gain and you do NOT NOT NOT NOT need to top up. Your HV has shown no signs whatsoever of having the faintest idea of what she is talking about. Please don't listen to her. Really, if you want to see someone regularly then see a different HV or your GP rather than this poisonous woman. And you don't "have" to go back next week. Your baby is fine.

yeah justover the 9th
where as 2 weeks ago she was just under the25th

i know its good advice just not getting her wighed
as i hate going down there anyway
and i know its up to me what i do

but as ive been told i must take her next week
i feel i have to for dd

this is my first baby id prob be alot wiser and confidence next time round

KB - I have looked back in my red book for dd to compare if it makes you feel any better...
Born weighing 8lb9oz (75th centile)
Dropped to 8lb4oz week after
At 12 weeks weighed 10lb4oz and has been on around 2nd centile ever since. (so much less average per week than your dd and my mw/hv/doc was fine with her)
Your HV is talking a crock of shit
Do you have a printer? If so I will try and find some links to print off with some facts so you feel more able to face her if that's what you choose to do. Also when she spouts what she does try "hmmm, do you have that advice in writing as it goes against everything else I have been told..."
Saying that - you do not have to go at all, it is completely up to you if you want a week off from her hassle!
Sending you some virtual strength so you stop feeling battered down....

If you feel you have to take her next week, could you go to your nice sane (based on your previous posts) GP rather than your ranting loony HV?

How much are you feeding at the moment? Could you step up the frequency, if you are worried she's not getting enough?

yeah titok a woman from the abm said that and that formula opens up a whole can of worms of problems and that dd could be allergic to it and why would you want to give her that flith

hv aslso said if dd was 17 weeks rather than 12 we could start to wean her
i thought it was best to wait till 6 months

id rather top up with formula than bf and wean at 17 weeks as i feel that would be more harmful

im feeding her about 15-30 times a day
which i know is a lot at 12 weeks

thanks for the virtual strength

Yes, but you don't have to do either. You can perfectly happily bf her to six months and then wean, based on what you've said. And the fact that your HV thinks that weaning her at 17 weeks would help her gain weight merely confirms her loon credentials.

This woman is nasty and is not helping you or your DD.

Kitten - I really think either a bf counsellor would be your best next step. You are being given so much conflicting info and your number of feeds does seem high - I think some one on one assistance would do you the world of good. Try NCT or La Leche League.
Alternatively how about joining a bf support group - do you have one near you? (or let me know where do you live and I will have a search for you)

dd does feed alot in the day but sleeps from 11pm till 7am ish every night and has done since 6 weeks
surely she wouldnt do that if sh was starving or dissatisflied would she

Trust me Kittenbaby - even if she has said you need to take her next week, you don't have to.

If you are still worried, make an appointment with your GP, ask him if he thinks your baby is unhhealthy, and then leave her a message (ring out of hours, so that it goes to an answering machine ) saying that the GP has said that their is nothing to worry about and that you won't be along next week for the weigh in.

If you really can't bring yourself not to go, tell her if she is that concerned about your dd's weight, you want a referral to a counsuyltant paedaitrician with an expertise in breast fed babies, before you make such a radical change inyour dd's feeding, which goes against the DoH's recommendations and for a child who appears to be healthy.

But pleeeeeeeeeeease, just stop seeing her. She is supposed to be supproting you and she is so obvisouly not doing so, while peddling wrong, outdated, malicious il-informed advice.

You don't need to go. Trust us.

Yep - sleeping that well sounds like she is satisfied before bed Kitten!

i do have a baby cafe near me but its been difficult for me to go to it as ive been rcovering from the repair op
i might be able to go on friday

im a little hesietant now thought after speaking the the woman from abm
what would a bf consellor be able to say to me or be able do for me ?

i dont need advising on the benefits of breast feeding as i realise the benefits

KB, it's the HV who'll be harming your baby if you follow her ill informed advice, not you. You are doing the right thing.

Kittenbaby: I know you were told that you 'must take her down next week'. but lets think of what would happen if you didn't.

1. Nothing.

They can't bring the police to make you.
Can't bring social services to take your baby away.
You will have a bit more rest at home.
Your baby will continue to bf, wee, poo, sleep and play as normal, totally not aware of all the fuss.

I suppose not going down will make you feel a bit panicky about 'disobeying' someone who you feel is an authority. But when an authority has given you such patently bad advice, you don't have to obey them.

hugs.

she seems like quite a happy baby to me
her poos are oftn green but they have always been like that really