is my hv talking nonsense? my baby is 23 days old and shes telling me to top up

[kittenbaby]

hi girls
my little baby is now 23 days old
i do find bf harder at night than in the morning [does sem to be less milk than in the mornings]
she is ex bf on demand
baby was born weighing 8 4 and a half
13 days later her weight went down to 7 11
hv said dd had to gain at least 4-5 oz in the next wk or we would have to rethink bf
and that maybe i should give her a formula top up
everything ive ive read says babys can and do lose weight in the 1st week or two
and one of the worse things to do to wreck bf is to give top ups of formula
so i decided to keep going only bf
then on tue one week after she was weighed again and had put on 6 and a half oz
weighing in at 8 1 and a half
so i thought yes shes put on more than 4-5oz
its working
but my hv still said that i should think about giving a top of formula
but will this make it harder for my baby to switch between the two?
or that if i dont want to give formula to express
what do you guys think should i be giving her tops ups ?
im only a first timer

im very non confrontational but i know shes talking crap and i know i need to question what shes telling me to do
but i still find it hard

It is hard, kb - wish I'd stood up to mine when she told me to sleep train a 6 week old... (Thankfully my mum visited, calmly picked up crying baby, and I gave up going to HV...). Where is the clinic? Is it at a GP practice? Can you make an appt with a good GP for around the same time to talk it through?

yes its at my gps

hes lovely and im going to talk to him about her, dont think he will be too happy about what shes being saying at least im still going with the bf .....just many others may of stopped because of her

sleep training ive never hard of that before
sounds harsh though esp at 6 weeks
this shit hv told me to make dd wait for feeds 2 and a half hours and leave her to cry for 2 and a half hours at 4 weeks old !
said put her upstairs in moses basket and put your earplugs in !!! wtf

That sounds like the best plan. Hope it all goes well. Really well done for sticking with it in the face of such opposition.

Bloody hell! She deserves a smack. I thought mine was being harsh telling me to leave her screaming for 5 mins...

Haven't read all this thread but.

FOR GOODNESS SAKE! I have just finished a course taught by HV's about BF who would regard that kind of advice as total rubbish, or a last, extereme resource after all else has been tried AT BEST. It it so annoying whhen you get these HV's floating around giving outdated advice.

BF friendly advice would be for you to instigate feeds every two hours, thus giving plenty of opportunities for baby to have lots of milk and building up your supply.

As long as your positioning is OK (no soreness etc) and you are getting through 5-6 wetr nappies a day and your baby is putting on weight don't worry.

Find out who your local breastfeeding support crew are go to them if you want reassurance. Please, please, please don't let ignorant, outdated advice from somebody ruin your breastfeeding relationship.

It is hard to balance formula feeding with breastfeeding because it artifically stretches the baby's tummy (making breastfeeds less satisfying) and reduces supply by interupting the sensitive supply/demand system. Although some women mange it, for most, introducing formula more often than not puts mothers on a path that finishes BF altogether. Fine if that's what the mum wants or would be happy with, but you clearly aren't and frankly it is a disgrace that you were given such poor advice.

AH kittenbaby good luck for tomorrow then ! you stick to your guns, tell her to &&^%&)("£& !¬ !!!!!!! how dare she make you question your bf ability and dd health. i think you're doing a great job and you should def talk to your gp - like you say, she could be jeopardising other mums bfing relationships.

not in congleton by any chance is she

kitten - the tyranny of weighing is dreadful - I know what it was like for me with ds - we even got scales from the chemist's and weighed him every day for several weeks. Bloody hospital made me obsessed by it with their ridiculous practice of test weighing. If you feel you have to go tomorrow, go, but don't be worn down by your hv (who sounds frankly appalling). You'redoing so well.

You can try one of two approaches: either just smile sweetly at her, go "mmmmm" non-commitally to her about her advice and just go on breastfeeding (while planning on complaining about her).

Or you could be more assertive, challenge her about exactly what she is concerned about about your dd: she is gaining a good average a week. Is there anything except the supposed poor weight gain? Shouldn't she be looking at the whole picture, not just one metirc?

And remind her that growth curves are averages: for them to exist at all, you need a range of weights!

Tell her that as long as your dd is happy and smiling, you are not going to change your feeding pattern at least until you have seen the paeditrician. Tell her that you don't want to risk compromising your baby's gut lining with formula until you have at least had confirmation that there is indeed an issue with your dd from a profssional who will be looking at your child holistically rather than just at one measure.

Tell her that you are happy to continue following the DoH guidelines, which are to breastdeed exclusively for 6 months - for the benefit of both mother and child.

And also make sure to cluster feed just before the weigh in! Good luck!

Hi Kittenbaby

I have just read this thread and wanted to add my support too. You sound like you are doing an amazing job .
Good luck for tomorrow with your HV - and if you do find it too hard to confront her, remember that you could always write a letter of complaint to the practice manager. I was lucky enough to have a HV who was an ex NCT breastfeeding councillor, so I got nothing but encouragement, but have friends who's breastfeeding was wrecked by bad advice from bad HVs.
So glad you have found mumsnet for support and have a lovely DH too.
Another vote here for leaving the weigh ins s if you feel you can. I stopped after the first few months as I could see that DD was healthy, happy and thriving. I didn't need a chart to tell me that and lord knows we have enough to worry about.

kittenbaby I've been reading your thread (your DD is the same age as mine) and just want to say that you are doing a fantastic job and you should ask to change your HV immediately.

Surely what she is telling you is against the guidleines they are supposed to be working to?....

If she mentions formula top uips again you should ask her if she is getting a kick back from a formula manufacturer

Seriously though, there is no real need to get her weighed tomorrow. With my DS five years ago I had him weighed every week or two weeks, certainly never went more than three weeks without a weigh in. if he had a blip it caused me unneccesary worry.

this time around I think I've had DD weighed about four times in total and she is following the 25th centile. Some weeks she may have gained more than others but you can't see this on the charts.

Your HV has undermined your confidence in your parenting abilities (and should be bloody sacked or sent for re-training at the very least)...I hope you can learn to trust your own insticts and get that lost confidence back.

Keep up your good work

my experience is that a breastfed baby tried on bottle usually then goes for bottle.It s up to you but babies gain some lose some at the beginning,breast or not;that s the norm.breast or not to breast:that is the question!

Second other peoples view that this HV should be reported for giving bad, outdated advice detremental to your wish to breastfeed your baby.

Kittenbabe, you are doing brilliantly. You know don't you that you NEVER have to see a health visitor EVER don't you?! It's an optional service which you can opt out of. (the key word is VISITOR you would tell them where to go if you didn't want them!) You also do not need, in fact it's positively frowned upon by health professionals (that know what they are talking about) to actually weigh babies so often - absolute max should be monthly (unless there is a clinical need - which you do not have).

All babes weigh gain will start to slow down, in fact from 3- 6months the Average (and some have to be above and some below) is actually 2.5 - 4.5 ounces a week (averaged out to a month). We are trying to fight oebesity and heart disease not growing fat cows (i.e. cows milk is to make cows grow fat, whereas human milk is to grow brains!)

You always gauged gain from the lowest post delivery weight - babies for example wil be born 'overweight' particularly if the mum had an drips during labour - where do you think the fluid goes.....ergh into mums hands and ankles and the babe!! - so he wasn't meant to have that extra fluid and loses it afterwards along with the normal stuff.

If your HV says 'top up' again simply ask her 'what is your evidence for that?' or simply 'why?' it's down to her to prove that she knows better (which of course she most definately does not).

Please feel free to phone the breastfeeding organisations - you might have a local counsellor that will visit you at home.

.....mummydospell .... you forgot the ABM! Why does everyoe forget the FIRST, UK BASED, BREASTFEEDING organisation it's 08444 122949 and its a 'lo call' number too!

How did your weigh-in go yesterday?

baby is 12 weeks and 2 days old.
until last weigh in he was on the 75% but 3 weeks ago was off that line and betweeen the 50th and 75th.
in the week leading up to this i had been worried that i wasnt producing enough milk as boobs werent getting as hard as they had been. and baby started waking more in the night. i had even stopped expressing coz worried about milk drying up. so i then introduced a bottle of formula for bedtime feed (so dh can feed baby....coz i felt i couldnt express and dh loves to do "his" bedtime feed....
anyway this is all ok but i still worred about my milk supply. baby fed for 10 mins earlier and kelt getting agitated and coming off the boob....just not sure he is getting enough?
any suggestion?
by the way he was 9lb3 at birth and weighed 12lb 8.5 at 9 weeks 3 days.

sry posted that in wrong place.
have created new thread
sry

hi its kittenbaby here again
still having the same probs
just taken dd to b weighed she has only gained 7 oz in the last 2 wks
so an ave of 3.5 oz a week
dd is now 12 weeks old and again im being told i really have to top up
and that i can only go one more week with a low weight gain
now ive got this far i dont mind so much the thought of topping only once a night up as dd still feeds non stop and im pretty exhustd to be honest
but how much should my dd be gaining a week at 12 weeks
she was born at 38+3 weighing 8 lb 4 and a half
then then next time she was weighed was at 13 days weight had dropped to 7lb 11
and we have been told to top up really since day 13
so im really happy and proud of what ive achieved so far
but i really dont want to instistr on doing something that would harm my dd
and if shes not gaining enough weight as has always struggled now maybe the time to have one bottle a night

but im just not sure how much she should be gaining
?

KB, I'm SO sorry you're still being undermined like this.

Can you try giving one of the breastfeeding supportlines a call? The numbers are on my profile.

I really think it might help you to talk about this with somebody.

7oz in two weeks is utterly fine and your baby sounds like she's doing really well and feeding's going really well, but your HV has undermined you so thoroughly that you won't believe me, I don't think

You're doing so well and I'm so angry that this bloody woman's let you down so comprehensively.

hi kittenbaby. sorry you're still under pressure

Is she following one of the centile lines on the growth charts?

i thought 7ozs in two weeks was pretty good too.

what is her actual weight KB?

KB, can you think again seriously about not going to the clinic for weighings?

That weight gain sounds fine, but more important is the health and development of your baby which you are, I gather, quite happy with.

If you don't want to top up, then there is no reason to - unless keeping your HV happy is important to you, and why would that be worth a bean?

It is normal for babies' weight gain to slow slightly or even plateau for a time at this age (2-4 mths). Babies tend not to gain as much from about this stage - but in any case, being ruled by weight is not good care, truly.

Ask your HV what she thinks will happen if you don't top up. You know from experience she does not understand very much about infant health or breastfeeding.

If you are reluctant to confront, then simply don't go to the clinic. If your mum (who you say is not supportive) asks about the baby and what the clinic says, just lie!

dd weight is 11 lb 5