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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Formula Feeders racked with guilt - wanna talk?

159 replies

mamawhyte · 19/07/2007 22:14

Just come over from another thread - rather than hijack that one.

I was always (and always will be) a pro-breastfeeder, but unfortunately have been completely disillusioned by my two experiences. For some reason, bf is so hard for me - some women seem to take to it naturally but no matter how hard I've tried I've not managed to overcome bf problems.

I had dd1 after a long and painful labour which ended with a 3rd degree tear. I was so exhausted I couldn't hold my new baby for long so when they asked me if I wanted to try to feed her I said no because I truly felt like i'd drop her. I went off to have my op and by the time I got back, she was asleep. I'd had pethadine during the labour and as a result she slept for 12 hours solid. The midwives said not to wake her, the ped said I should, and they had a big row about it in the corridor outside my ward. Anyway, I was there for four days and the whole time not one of the midwives managed to get her to latch on. By the time I left the hospital she'd had a bottle of formula but I was still determined to get the hang of bfeeding. I tried a nipple shield and she latched on, sucked for 45 mins and then woke 10mins later and drunk a whole bottle of formula! I asked the mw and she said "oh, she's probably getting something if she's latched on for that long". But my confidence was knocked and I had no support from relatives. I tried again and again but the same thing kept happening. I expressed milk 3 times a day for a month for her but the rest of the time she had bottles.

The guilt was something else. I'd think about bfeeding all day every day until it became too much to bear, then I'd break down, fess up to hubby who'd convince me I needed to get some help. I'd agree, but the the following morning I'd wake up feeling so much happier and lighter because I'd talked about with dh and got it all back into perspective, so I didn't bother with the doctor. A few weeks later, it would start building up again and within a couple of months I'd have another breakdown, blah de blah.

This cycle went on for 3 years until I became pregnant again. At last I could prove to myself that I could do it - I had a second chance. But suffered a miscarriage at 12 weeks. It was really sad, but the only positive thing that came out of it was that it had broken the cycle.

Three months later I was pregnant again. This time, I was completely devoted to successfully breastfeeding from the moment I found out. I hired a doula to help me after the birth to make sure the baby latched on straight away and that I had some support. dh was also fantastic. I had an elective c-section, recommended due to the third degree tear I suffered the first time round. I had a birth plan which stated that as long as all was well, I wanted to try to feed her as soon as possible, and I did - on the operating theatre table. And she latched on perfectly!! I was thrilled. My doula spent hours with me at the hospital for the first few days, helping me to perfect the latch and the I transferred to a birth centre for two nights so that I could concentrate on me and my baby before I went home. I had my breastfeeding book and my baby and apart from bits of my nipples being peeled off when I took my breastpad away from my nipple and my baby puking up an incredible amount of dried blood after she had her first proper full feed on the third day, everything seemed to be going fine. I got home and became so obsessed with breasfeeding that I thought of nothing else. Being cooped up for 6 wks didn't help either! I had my doula, midwives, health visitors and a breast feeding counsellor all reassuring me that she was latched on fine, but they kept saying "it shouldn't hurt", so I knew it wasn't right because I had to be on ibruprofen and paracetomol 24/7. I started to feel increasingly isolated and depressed and had mastitis when dd2 was 3 weeks old. Antibiotics sorted that out, so I carried on. I got it again when she was 5 weeks old, but this time the antibiotic didn't have any effect, so doc gave me another - the only other one available to me apparently, because I'm allergic to penicillin. He said it wasn't ideal to take whilst bf ing, only if truly neccessary, which it was. So, I took it - doc told me to see how it went. DD2 cried inconsolably all day like she was really uncomfortable and it was awful. I had to take them for 7 days and there was no way I was putting her through that for a week, so I started to give her bottles of formula and tried to express as much as possible to keep the milk supply up, but it dwindled and by day 7 I wasn't getting enough for a full feed. I tried to bf her in the morning and evening, but had to top up with a bottle. She was so upset when she couldn't have mummy's milk from a lovely warm breast for the second part of her feed and it broke my heart. Enough was enough!

Reading back I can see that all my choices were always in my baby's best interests. It's so nice to get it off my chest once in a while when I can feel that cycle coming back.

I read about a lady who bf for 6 months and hated every second, but was determined. She had masitis 9 times and was surprised when her baby took to the bottle really well and wouldn't even let her mummy hold the bottle. Sometimes you can go too far I think, but I still think she must have been incredibly strong to go through all that.

Well, if anyone has actually managed to get to the end of this - well done!!! Maybe this thread is just for me - it'd probably bore the pants off anyone else. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
almost30 · 23/07/2007 10:17

Bit late to this thread, but reading it I feel so relieved. Sorry - here goes with the catharsis...

I had intended to bf and was under a lot of pressure from DH and his family - MIL and SIL had breastfed and loved it. DH thought it was def. best and couldn't understand why anyone would FF.

I was totally up for trying, but knew it would be that - I had watched my mother and stepmother suffer from mastitis. I thought that would be the only problem I might encounter.

I ended up having an emergency cs after 23 hours in labour and so was exhausted and felt like a failure before I'd even started. What I really wasn't prepared for was the sheer excrutiating agony of bf. Every time my DD cried I cried, knowing that I would need to try feeding her again. Not good for bonding!

The HV just kept coming out with 'there, there' type platitudes and I felt that I'd be letting everyone down if I gave up. (Note - 'gave up', rather than 'switched').

Funnily enough though I didn't feel that I'd be letting DD or myself down though as I and all of my siblings were ultimately ff and we've all grown up fine - and are rarely ill.

What I needed was for someone to say that it's ok to ff. In the end DH got over his pre-conceptions and took over and gave my DD a bottle, said it was ok. Have rarely been so relieved in my life. MIL has since come round and has been really supportive too.

For me, FF enabled me to bond with my DD - controversial!!! I enjoyed feeding her and my DH could feed her too. She is now equally close to him as me, helped I'm sure by him being involved at that stage.

I don't really feel guilty for DD about FF her as she's strong and happy. I think all other things being equal breast probably is best. But all other things in life are not equal and in the run of things a happy and relaxed mummy is so much better than one that winces and squeals every time she tries to feed her little one.

I just feel that perhaps I should have 'pushed through' and maybe I would have got there eventually (wonder this re: birth too, which probably doesn't help). I don't feel that the ff was worse, but know that others think that I took the easy route.

I feel angry too that the HVs were so unhelpful (mine admitted to me that they have targets for bf) and unsupportive. I got no info about bottles and formula and was told that they weren't allowed to give it as it might be seen as encouragement. We were left to find our own way (if only I'd known about MN then!). We made some clangers re: types of formula and sterilising, preparing feeds, but thankfully nothing serious and we got there in the end.

Having a new baby is challenging enough that the guilt and unhelpfulness around ff is really not in a baby's best interest and surely that's what it's all about.

mamawhyte · 23/07/2007 10:24

That is EXACTLY how I felt. You do feel that you're not trying hard enough, but at the end of the day you have to try to take a step back and look at the situation. Is breastfeeding REALLY best in your situation?

In my OP I mentioned a lady who breastfed for 6 months and hated every second. She suffered enormously and the day the baby turned 6 months she took a bottle with no problem and wouldn't even let her mother hold the bottle - maybe she liked her independence or maybe she'd felt how tense her mother was during those 6 months and was relieved to be able to feed herself. Maybe bf ing wasn't the best decision in that situation - we'll never know.

At the end of the day people are different, but you can tell you're a wonderful mother because the issue is obviously so important to you.

If you decide to ff but you feel like a bad mother as a result, read back over the positive points in this thread and hopefully they will help you to see the bigger picture. Good luck.

OP posts:
mamawhyte · 23/07/2007 10:25

Sorry, should have said, that last post was in answer to ellsbells post.

OP posts:
startouchedtrinity · 23/07/2007 11:17

I had a similar thing with dd1, several mums just loved telling me how many times they'd had mastisis but carried on bf. It was only when I bfed dd2 that I realised there is a world of difference between mastisis when bf goes well and when is doesn't. with dd2 I had a temp of 41, yet I could function as a mother and dd2 cleared all my blockages - I just moved her around on my breast. with dd1 an dds, I got the same temp but my breasts were so sore I needed nurofen to try and control the pain and I had to go to bed for two days' - I was totally out of it.

katewilson13 · 23/07/2007 12:18

I ff my DS. Switched from breastfeeding at 5 weeks. It was the BEST thing I have ever done. I hated bfing and got mastitis, DS had a tongue tie and I was in shock after a difficult birth; in fact was in shock generally. ffing meant that finally my child and I were comfortable together and could learn to react to each other. His reaction when taking his first bottle (which disappeared down his throat in 5 minutes) made me cry as it was clearly a huge relief to him as well. Could not recommend it highly enough. Has enabled DH to be a real part of this part of his life as well. I have refused to feel guilty. I have a healthy and happy DS - what could be better. And it gave me space to recover and come to terms with a whole new life.

LaBoheme · 23/07/2007 15:10

kw that is so true. I persoanlly felt more guilt trying and struggling to BF a baby who was screaming and uncomfortable and really really dehydrated. I am v cross with myself for putting DD through 5 weeks of hell and hunger. I distinctly remember the HV would just attach her onto my breast and then leave; 2 mins later she was unattached and I was again alone dealing with a v distressed baby who had lost more than 10% body weight - "oh don't worry about the weight loss just keep putting her to your breast". Mastitis - don't worry about it just keep feeding, I was told by healthcare prefessionals, BF councellors and the like and made to feel like a total idiot when I expressed concern that DD seemed uncomfortable due to the antibiotics. Blocked nipples - well the scabs fall off just let the baby suck ,
When I look back I am so angry at the utter lack of options presented to me, at a time when I really needed a bit of advice to ease the pressure of an awful birth - PPH. I was such a clueless, vulnerable 1st time Mum and FF was just something unspeakable and looked upon with such disapproval in every post-natal group I attended (NCT and NHS) I thought it was a rotten thing to do. NOT TRUE.
I think it was 2am one morning when DD got a bottle and gave it to DD. I will sincerely never forgot the look on her little face. Like I say I feel like s* for putting her though those first 5 weeks. Fwiw I was FF I am 5ft 11, size 10, pursuing a postgrad next year..still alive and healthy.

startouchedtrinity · 23/07/2007 15:15

I knew ffeeding was right with ds when he woke for a night feed and I felt sick to my stomach until I remembered I'd switched. The relief!

VeniVidiVickiQV · 23/07/2007 15:38

STT, I guess I was raw from the "bf nazi" stuff elsewhere on MN and interpreted your post as saying anyone supporting bf was guilty of no empathy, etc.

You try and help people and it gets chucked back, you see.

And then you wonder why you're bothering.

But I accept you didn't mean that.

And fwiw, I don't hate formula. I have never said anything unpleasant about formula on here and I never will.

Formula companies now, that's a different matter...

As you were, ladies. This is a valuable thread and doesn't need me making it look untidy

Hunker

mamawhyte · 23/07/2007 15:47

I don't believe it - I was feeling so much more positive and then I met a friend today who really upset me. She has a boy a few weeks younger than dd2 and she has managed to successfully breastfeed him. She was telling me a story about a lady she'd met the other day who had a 7 week old baby. She had given up breastfeeding the week before because she was struggling so much, but told my friend that she now regretted it. My friend told her not to worry as it wasn't too late and advised her to speak to a bf counsellor she knew who would help her get her milk back. Then she said "I was so pleased, I thought wow, i've saved a baby"!

I didn't know what to say. I was so hurt. it wasn't mentioned again but I think she realised what she'd said - conversation was quite strained after that. I think she'll ring me to apologise, but I don't know what to say to her. I think I might just burst into tears if she mentions it. I feel so sad that one of my friends obviously believes I'm poisoning my baby.

OP posts:
smallwhitecat · 23/07/2007 15:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mamawhyte · 23/07/2007 16:01

She is such a nice girl, but I think that it is just too easy to be overpassionate about "Breast is best" when you've successfully managed to bf your own baby.

OP posts:
fedupwasherwoman · 23/07/2007 16:01

I formula fed both ds's through personal choice based on being very uncomfortable with the prospect of having to get my J cup breasts out in public (large breasts are not easy to feed from discretely sp?) or stay home for almost my entire maternity leave which was only a couple of months long anyway. Plus, for some reason I just didn't want to do it.

I absolutely do not feel guilty and deep down know I made the right decision for me and my babies.

I feel, if anything, breastfeeding is overhyped, some midwives/H.V.'s think it does far more for mum/baby than is actually proven and they do have targets to try and meet.

I'm not denying breast is statistically best in terms of nutrition/immunity etc but practice often bears no relation to theory as many of the posts on this thread confirm.
We need to consider the emotional needs of the mums to be just as important as the baby's. How can a H.V. be pushing breastfeeding at all costs and not expecting there to be any fall out in terms of increased possibility of PND.

Personally I feel sorry for anyone who cannot accept the need to ensure a happy mum and baby, bonding and getting to know each other. I am particularly angry at those health professionals who could adopt a less judgemental approach and show some compassion but instead hide behind the NHS breast is best policy to avoid helping new mums ensure that if they formula feed they do so safely having received guidance in making up bottles etc.

I maybe gave off strong "I have decided I will be bottle feeding, for reason X,Y,Z, so do not try to guilt trip/pressure me into changing my mind" vibes to my H.V. but I do have a friend who was reduced to tears and used to avoid her H.V. if at all possible.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 23/07/2007 16:09

FUWW, I am glad you reached a decision you were comfortable with, but I can't let your myth about large breasts being difficult to feed discreetly from go uncommented upon. I had H cup breasts when I began feeding both boys (G now) and had no problem with it.

I'm sorry if that sounds smug, it is in no way intended to. I would hate it if someone made the decision not to bfeed because they thought they couldn't do it discreetly because of their large breasts.

Mamawhyte, I bet she's feeling like shit for upsetting you now - and if she isn't, she's an idiot .

Hunker

Elsbells · 23/07/2007 16:11

mamawhyte DON'T worry about it...be honest with your friend about how you feel and remember we are not poisoning our dc by giving them formula.

I have been attempting all afternoon again to bf by trying to get my milk increased, doing skin to skin, breastcrawl and all the other good "bonding" stuff. It didn't work and dd would latch and scream hysterically for milk. She is now content after I ff her. I feel I "saved" her from being hungry and angry.

And for the first time in ages, I didn't cry about it.

Think we need to remember how lucky we are to have dc. My gf had an early menopause at 37 and would be happy enough just to have a dc.

I keep trying to remind myself that we should be celebrating a new life.

Of course this whole subject has its upd and downs and unfortunately I know there will be a moment (later today, tomorrow or even next week) when I get down on the dumps about it. Glad I have somewhere to air my feelings.

fedupwasherwoman · 23/07/2007 16:13

mamawhyte.

"saved a baby" crikey she has been well and truly brainwashed by her hormones.

I lost touch with a friend from ante natal days when I went back to work as she was tactlessly evangelical about breastfeeding and although I was thickskinned about formula feeding it was becoming pointless maintaining the friendship just for ds1 to be the object of her pity.

When our children were 2, I met up with her again and we still do playdates at each others houses. I'm being terribly judgemental here but she feeds her child junk/poor quality food. I've seen the contents of her kitchen and how her child refuses to eat run of the mill healthy food (wholemeal bread, non sugary cereals etc). I like her, we have a laugh, we're now on the same wavelength about so many things in life and our children get on well together. Although I'd never say anything I can't help but considere the irony of her child's dient now compared to ds1's. I wonder how the change in diet came about but I'd be way too embarassed to discuss the matter.

tiktok · 23/07/2007 16:17

fedup - if your HV or any other professional said they were unable to help you with guidance on safe formula feeding, then write and complain, why doncha?

Support for breastfeeding and help with breastfeeding is not and never has been synonymous with leaving ff mothers under-informed about how to do it. That's just poor care - any HV who refused to give as much info and help as was needed should be challenged and re-trained.

Please tell me you made a formal complaint about this, and your anger has not been constrained to writing to a talk board about breastfeeding being 'over-hyped'.

If you feel strongly enough about the poor care, enough to ensure other mothers don't experience it, then you will want to communicate the shortcomings of the care you experienced, surely?

fedupwasherwoman · 23/07/2007 16:25

Hunker presumably you're at peace with the size of your breasts.

Me, I can't wait until the boys are old enough and I can have a breast reduction without causing major disruption to their daily life.

I was uncomfortable with the size of mine, covering up, wearing minimiser bras all the time, even in bed, way before the prospect of needing to breastfeed from them arose. I rarely even see my nipples because they're somewhere at the bottom pointing to the floor. I still believe that it would be easier to be discreet if I had the average C cup maybe rising to F in pregnancy without gravity having relocated the position of the nipple some years ago.

As I said I think the mum's emotional needs are routinely overlooked, except for the odd PND questionaire checklist, as every thing is about what's best for baby.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 23/07/2007 16:29

FUWW, no, I hate them. I loathe not being able to find clothes to fit well. I object to having to make a special trip to a bra shop I can't get to easily in order to buy bras big enough. I was a DD before I had the boys and the only thing stopping me having a reduction is that I am still bfing DS2 and I might have another baby one day.

Interesting the assumptions we make about other people though...!

Hunker

fedupwasherwoman · 23/07/2007 16:41

what gets me is why they all give different excuses for not arranging demonstrations of how to make up bottles.

NCT teacher put it down to WHO backed health & safety guidelines in respect of doing group teaching sessions and the possibility of a misunderstanding arising. Also declined to do one to one teaching, as she only ran courses of group sessions but then why would she, she had successfully breastfed all her 3 children and was convinced of their superior intellect as a result thereof.

My community midwife said they'd cover that sort of thing on the post natal ward and maybe they do do one demonstration a week but most mums I saw were only in overnight. I managed to see a "bathing baby" demonstration and did ask about the "making up formula" one but it clearly took place after I'd been discharged.

By the time you're home again it's all a bit late but the visiting midwife and H.V. both said when questioned that it was frowned upon now as possibly seen to be encourging the use of formula. (by then I was only asking out of curiosity and bloodymindedness as I'd already worked it out).

Those who basically want formula banned except in the case of proven medical need might rejoice at this sort of answer but I think it's pathetic "It's our way or you get no help at all" bullying by the NHS/NCT.

I am supportive of breastfeeding btw but I believe in a woman's right to choose how she feeds her baby without being belittled for her choice. The number of people who clearly think I just didn't get the "right information" to help me make "the right choice" is quite funny.

fedupwasherwoman · 23/07/2007 16:59

I was an H before I had children, I think you'll find that's 4 cup sizes larger than yourself.

I made my comments to the relevant individuals at the time and I'm not naive enough to waste my breath fighting against the NHS on a matter where they can quite justifiably say this is our policy so we will understandably not be keen on allocating considerable resources to supporting bottle feeding.

I used to work in the NHS and know the futility of such a "petty" complaint and recognise "wild goose chases" when I see them.

I made a formal compplaint about HG not being taken seriously or correctly diagnosed in my first pregnancy.
The weasel worded response was an insult.

My time is far better spent being supportive of other formula feeding mums and offering to demonstrate/talk about making up bottles if appropriate in the same way that posters like Tiktok help breastfeeding mums suffering at the hands of poor quality NHS breastfeeding support.

tiktok · 23/07/2007 17:19

Group demos of formula feeding to antenatal parents are neither safe nor ethical, twofishes. Please don't use your volunteer time in suggesting yourself as a demonstrator.

Far better is to have the demo done for the ff mum in her own kitchen, postnatally, by an HV/midwife. If this is asked for, or if any questions about preparation of formula are posed, then it is poor care on the part of the HV/midwife to refuse.

I think only two posters have suggested formula should be available on prescription only - and each time this idea is voiced, people like me explain why it is a crap idea.

I am disappointed that you feel it is not worth while writing a letter to complain about ff mothers not being guided to formula feed safely. You are merely asking people to do their job properly, after all.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 23/07/2007 17:33

I think you'll find I was a DD before children and an H when I first bfed, which is the same size as you pre-children and one size less than you. Actually.

Hunker

mamawhyte · 23/07/2007 19:18

oh for god's sake, how has a supportive thread of such value to so many turned into a pointless debate about breast size?!

OP posts:
tiktok · 23/07/2007 19:24

It's called having a conversation - and this is what happens in RL, too.

(at least it happens in my RL! )

VeniVidiVickiQV · 23/07/2007 19:52

It wasn't a debate. My post was misread. I was correcting that.

No need to be snippy.

Hunker