I am ashamed of myself for being so judgemental.

[Gingerbear]

A mum from DD's school had a baby last week. I saw her yesterday and was chatting to her about all things baby. Then she got out a bottle and filled it with a carton of formula. I felt my heart sink and I thought, oh no, she hasn't even tried to breastfeed. I was about to say, 'I will be breastfeeding again next time' but held my tongue. I have no idea about her views, if she had problems with breastfeeding and I don't know her well enough to broach the subject.
It is such a personal issue, and so easy to offend someone. I just feel so sad and frustrated at myself for being unable to speak to her.

sorry, im feeling like crap today, food poisoning i think. im not doing myself any favours by behaving irrationaly on here. Ill bow out out, dehydration is making me delirious.

And emma, you say 'why when I read posts on this thread do I feel so bad????? '

This thread.

Not others.

Confusing, you see

yes dizzy. i do agree with that. my mum must;ve been odd lol, she was a feed on demand person, as was my aunt who b/f her youngest till she 4

ffs, why is everyone so judgemental!! is there any wonder there are references to bf mafia etc?? how do any of you have the right to take this holier than thou attitude to other peoples desicions, instead be grateful that you had the choice

I know- ignore me please.

This thread is absolutely startling i wanted to BF but after a horrfic labour & birth i was physically not strong enough to hold my DS let alone BF! I FF in the hospital and tried to BF once home but he couldnt get enough in comparison to his bottles and he struggled to stay latched on.
This thread actually makes me feel guilty for not trying harder and saying that by FF i could have caused him hard is awful!

I echo the thoughts of other people on here that say this forum is for support and advice, and really shouldnt be used as a way to worry, startle and upset individuals.

With regards to the OP - why would you even consider mentioning to someone how they feed their DC??? If someone came up to me and suggested ff was wrong i would be far from impressed and probably retaliate!

to be frank I think a lot of women on mn become judgmental simply from being on here.

I'd hazard a guess that if GB had never heard of mumsnet or joined any parenting site she's never have given this woman a second thought.

Lissie, who is the 'everyone' being judgemental?

Just askin'

I agree emma may have confused some people with the 2 thread mix-up, but I think the point she was making is relevant to this thread.

As this thread is about people making judgments on ff babies, she was refering to some awful comments made about formula, which I also saw such on the bf/smoking thread such as 'formula is minging' and implications that it was as unhealthy for your child as smoking around them.

I don't know the full facts about any health implications of formula, but I think emma was just highlighting that there can be very judgemental and unnecessarily unkind comments made about formula feeding, which are hurtful, especially to those women who are sensitive or feel they have 'failed' at breast feeding.

Look.

There is one, maybe two, posters who persitently make unkind and insensitive remarks about formula feeding, totally ignoring the feelings of mothers who have used fornula from choice or not, it doesn't matter.

They know who they are.

I wish they would stop.

They influence threads far above the significance of what they say, or their numbers. They justify their insensitivity by saying they are sharing facts.

To this, I say 'pah!'

The vast majority of bf-supportive posters on mumsnet - the vast majority - recognise and respond to the feelings of all mothers and are pretty careful about what they say and how they say it.

hippmummy, I suggest you ignore the tiny minority.

They are not representative of most of us.

"this forum is for support and advice, and really shouldnt be used as a way to worry, startle and upset individuals."

Part of giving support and advice is sharing accurate information. Some accurate information can worry, startle and upset people.

Not that I'm defending everything people on here say! I do think some people say things on here that are technically true, but which said bluntly are cruel. But the fundamental clash between giving truthful information and never making anyone feel uncomfortable happens over and over again with BF and FF discussions, here and all over the place. The whole thing is much, much too complex to be managed with a "don't post anything that might worry, startle or upset someone" rule, it really is.

Nadine - I think it goes the other way actually. It's people who don't know anything about other people's experiences who are most likely to judge other people negatively. The more stories you hear, the more you come to realise things are very, very far from black and white. And that works both ways - hopefully most people come to realise eventually that there are places both for the sort of hard-headed campaigning on BF issues that doesn't give an inch under formula company pressure, and (at the other end of the scale), for understanding that there are people for whom formula is a 100% correct individual decision, and appreciating just how painful the whole thing is for people. But boards are very good for exposing people to all the different stories you need to hear to get a better (not perfect, but better) perspective.

Good post, fire.

I am all for accurate information - given sensitively where sensitivity is required, and mostly, it is required on mumsnet because of the audience, who certainly do, on the whole, log on for support and not for scaring!

Campaigning is a different matter - but I still think it can be done in a way that bears witness to the fact that the audience to any campign in the UK may include mothers whose feelings are raw.

NCT bfc training has a whole assignment specifically about this, as it happens.

tiktok - sorry to hijack but could you give me the benefit of your wisdom on this

Fortyplus, you envisage emotionally damaged children of mothers who are sad bfeeding didn't work out for other mothers?

Nice.

tiktok, I know people sometimes like to stir things up for their own agenda.
Glad to know they are the minority. Just upset me to think that anyone already sensitive about ff would be made to feel really cr*p.
I know that as in RL it's usually the loud voices with controversial opinions who get noticed.
I remember being told as a new mum that my breastmilk was making my baby ill
People are judgmental about everything

I often hear people being FAR more judgemental in RL than on here. Regularly. And often about feeding method too.

Rarely is this about ffeeding though...

Just in the interests of fairness:

There are also a handful of posters who persistently make unkind remarks about breastfeeding and breastfeeding mothers as well.

They know who they are.

I wish they would stop.

The vast majority of people here are not like this

Glad to hear your comments (tiktok especially).
I unfortunately had to give top-up bottles as my DS was just not putting on any weight after 5 scary weeks (even the h/v and bfc could not explain why). One parents' group I went to had some mothers that made me feel so bad about not bf at the lunchtime feed I used to find an excuse to leave early so they wouldn't see me ff. I soon realised it was them with the problem not me and have found a much nicer group.

Thanks i'll definitely check all the books/web sites out that have been suggested!

When I said 'It's the shape of your nipples that counts' I was only meaning that whether you have huge boobs or are totally flat chested makes no difference at all.
It is generally true that people with flat or inverted nipples find it harder to establish bf - that isn't 'perpetuating a myth'. Once bf is established they can carry on as successfully as anyone else.
I didn't imply that anyone would find it impossible to bf because of the shape of their nipples.
Some people find it easier than others - due to many factors, one of which is how easy the baby finds it to latch on.
That's all.

hunker - I would love it if everyone who wanted to bf could do so.

I would love it if everyone could live in a cottage with roses round the door.

I don't get judgemental about people who don't bf because either they have made a concsious choice not to do so or otherwise they are feeling guilty that they have 'failed' their baby.

I would rather that people diverted their energy to 'feeling sad' about children starving to death in the 3rd world rather than a well nourished baby on formula.

but what about people who might reasonably feel sad about both, fortyplus? this thread is weird...

Tiktok, how you keep consistently calm always amazes me.

I dont see a thread full of horrific comments loaded against FFs here. (There have been one or two comments about formula and its effects). I have seen some pretty persistent bullying, misquoted, insulting, nasty, beligerant, ignorant posts towards the OP, who, in actual fact, was berating herself for her instant reaction to this other mother. She needn't have berated herself, mind you, she should have just posted on here.

Perhaps, if those who are so very traumatised, could show some humility, and say "hey, you know what, its good you feel bad about what you first thought, because it shows you have an understanding of just how emotive this can be", instead of lashing out, being far more rude and thoughtless than the OP ever was, and taking this thing so far out of context so as to make it some kind of battle. Again.

Aitch, couldnt agree more.

Aitch - you're right. But don't bf threads on mn always turn out like that? I don't know why I go on them - I always end up offending people! My boobs shrivelled up long ago!