I am ashamed of myself for being so judgemental.

[Gingerbear]

A mum from DD's school had a baby last week. I saw her yesterday and was chatting to her about all things baby. Then she got out a bottle and filled it with a carton of formula. I felt my heart sink and I thought, oh no, she hasn't even tried to breastfeed. I was about to say, 'I will be breastfeeding again next time' but held my tongue. I have no idea about her views, if she had problems with breastfeeding and I don't know her well enough to broach the subject.
It is such a personal issue, and so easy to offend someone. I just feel so sad and frustrated at myself for being unable to speak to her.

Clarification for my last paragraph:

I know you say it's different when someone wants to bf and can't. But when you say "FF isn't going to hurt their child" you're devaluing the struggle of those who gave everything they had in order to bf.

Well, as one of those mothers, yes it does matter to the mother: I think I've never been so miserable as in this two months of not being able to breastfeed my new daughter (among the times I've been happier than ever before in my life). But I would rather - perhaps this is wimpy and too sensitive of me - not read threads that say formula feeding costs the NHS millions (which suggests, I think quite plainly, that it causes serious illnesses) and that I'm being judged by people in supermarkets when I buy formula as a sad case or unfeeling mother... if that's what it takes to acknowledge the gravity of my struggle.

One of the saddest parts of the experiences of mothers who wanted to breastfeed and didn't is the way opinions and responses are assumed....macneil, no one seeing you buying formula thinks you are an unfeeling mother (where, anywhere, does anyone suggest this?) and we have dealt with the 'sadness' aspect by pointing to the supportive response that it is understandable to be sad at the idea that mothers don't get enough help with bf, or that they may be formula feeding when they didn't want to (not 'a sad case' in that sense at all). Please don't worry what people think - they are not thinking anything negative about you

I can't bear it on here when people (and there are only one, or two, and they know who they are and they should bloody well know better) say something insulting about formula. It either hurts already-hurting people's feelings or angers them, and what is the point of that?

But lets not pretend there is no difference between formula and breast, or that this difference, in some respects, is far from miniscule. That's to belittle the feelings of those mothers who do struggle to breastfeed because they want to make the most of this difference.

Hi, I'm about to become a new mum, i'm due on the 11th Feb and I have to say that this thread, which I doubt was its intention, but it has terrified me none the less.
I do want to try to breast feed, I have had the ppl telling me its hard and the horror stories and the ppl saying I wasn't able too etc etc, so I was already concerned for lack of a better word to wether I would be able too. I've even had a 'supporting' aunty telling me 'not to worry she didnt have boobs either so couldnt feed' I'm not all that blessed in that department and pg hasn't made all that much of a difference!
But the thought that if for whatever reason I can't do it I run the risk of ppl pitying my baby if they see me in the supermarket buying formula is HUGE pressure! its all a bit scary, I just want the best for my baby which is the one and only reasonwhy I want to really try.
But surely a baby benefits the most from a happy contented mother as opposed to one utterly struggling and despairing?
I know I have yet to have any experience over this but its opened my eyes a bit and well as I say scared me!

Awww....MrsJ, I honestly don't think anyone will think your baby is deserving of pity if you buy formula! Don't make the imagined responses of total strangers into an issue that actually scares you before your baby is even here

What is more of a concern is the lack of support from your family - you will need good information to counter the well-meaning undermining that might come from that direction.

Good help from knowledgable people in the first days and weeks will also counter that negativity.

MrsJ - the size of your boobs won't make any difference - it's the shape of your nipples that counts!
bf is hard for lots of people - I don't get angry about much, but the people who fawn around saying they feel so 'sad' that someone is ff need to get a life and stop being so judgemental about other people.
Their children will probably grow up physically healthy but emotionally damaged by having such a nutty mother

Agree with Tiktok. Definitely make sure you get support from midwives, health visitors, have telephone numbers to hand of BF support organisations.....and make your friends/family/partner aware that you really want to do it...if for some reason you are ill or exhausted after the birth you will need them to be your advocates.

I was very ill after a traumatic, long labour which ended in a 'crash' CS under general and I was in no state to fight for advice and help, which unfortunately was what was needed...ds never sucked or latched on, just had an open mouth at the boob....no-one helped and my family were I think in shock really about how bad the labour had been so they weren't able to support me, so basically I gave up and formula fed.

The other thing I wanted to say is that on may threads on this topic you do get a skewed view of how this issue will seem to you in real life. It's a hotbed of debate on here and I highly doubt you will find real life quite so heightened about the issue. No-one will be judging you IF you buy formula, they will be too busy stuffing it in their own trollies!

Anyway, I'm sure it won't be an issue and that all will be fine for you!

fortyplus - you're right about the size of breasts making no difference, but in fact, babies can latch on perfectly well to all sorts of differently-shaped nipples, including flat and inverted ones....though yes, they can sometimes present a bit of a challenge.

Is it helpful to call people 'nutters' for feeling sad about women who end up formula feeding not through choice? Is it helpful to suggest their children will grow up emotionally damaged?

thank you forty plus

yes fortyplus.. it's the shape of your nipples that counts ?!! how sad that you are perpetuating such myths to new mums.

poor mrsj. it really doesnt matter how you feed your child as long as you love them. this thread has made me so angry, mums dont need any more pressure. its ok if you dont want to bf for ANY reason. its ok if you cant bf and its ok if you do. ffs there are children being neglected all over the world and enduring horrific abuse and youre feeling sad for those who arent bf.

sort your priorities

MrsJ, size of breasts doesn't make any difference to whether or not you can BF, and they don't need to have grown in pregnancy. I'm sure you'll do fine - make sure you read as much as you can, line up some sources of expert help (BF helpline numbers etc.), and use them, and really try to avoid misinformation from people who haven't BF. Sometimes despite being very well meaning, family members who didn't BF may not realise when a problem has a solution, or when a problem isn't really a problem, and what's normal etc. Like TikTok says, they can undermine you without even realising they're doing so.

Re the feeling pity, really don't spend any time worrying about that. This thread has ended up putting a huge spotlight on one particular emotion that's (very occasionally and only briefly!) felt by some people related to one particular part of a baby's life, but try to keep it in perspective. It's a drop in an ocean of feelings, opinions and emotions that we're all swimming in all the time, and as with everything, 99% of the time most people's attention is focused on themselves and what they're busy doing, not other people or their babies. Imagining criticism, and being frustrated when you can't answer back, goes with the territory when parenting, unfortunately. A classic example is being in the supermarket with a howling toddler - when it's happening you're convinced everyone in the shop is staring at you thinking what a bad mother you are, but (just like with buying formula and so on) most people aren't really noticing you at all, let alone thinking the negative things about you that you imagine they might be.

Thanks everyone, my DH is VERY supportive infact hes a dream. My midwife is very sweet and has tole me that I'll be helped by the hospital midwives after i've had the baby and has given me lots of information.
It seems that the ppl who seem to pessimistic etc towards breast feeding belong to the generation of ppl who would have children my age (I'm 26) my mums supportive but on the back foot says but 'I could'nt by the time my milk come through the baby would be starving... not everyone can'
This is just my experience and observation though not saying its in anyway a fact.
Perhaps and i'm presuming its just a difference of information that was given when they had there children?

I rarely (if ever) post on a BF v FF thread. This one however has saddened me as regardless of what anyone says, yet again on Mn, I feel like an inadequate mother for not breastfeeding.

My children are both incredibly healthy and well nourished.You would have to be some kind of psychic to recognise the fact that neither of them were breast fed.

Im not a child beater, never feed them shite, so why when I read posts on this thread do I feel so bad?????

If FF milk was so bad, surely by law, it would not be allowed to be sold.
Surely you must recognise that there are far worser things you can inflict on your kids than powdered milk. FGS.

Yes,there are worse things.
Is that the point though.
We aren't talking about 'other things' here.

mrsj- i'm 26 too and yes, our parents' generation were told very different things, not only about milk feeding..as you'll discover with weaning, feeding..all kinds of things. arm yourself with information and just nod and smile in the face of well meaning relatives' advice. have you familiarised yourself with kellymom.com? also my midwife tole me to get a copy of 'bestfeeding' by renfrew, fisher and arms. fab book, quick to read. lots of great pics for positioning and a table of myths etc and what to do when things go tits up ....so to speak!

The thing about breastfeeding/formula feeding is that in the grand scheme of things it is not THAT important. I don't suppose you'll still be feeling bad when your child is 7 if you didn't breatfeed. But at the time, it is everything. Everything is so magnified after you give birth and you are so conscious of doing every thing right for your new baby, that to get a comment about formula feeding is going to be very very hurtful. The same goes for the way you give birth.

I recognise that Md- as I say- I rarely post on breast /bottle feeding because if I dared say that I didnt breastfeed, its almost like admitting to poisoning your child- that is a fact, read the other posts, those that did/can bf have some pretty damning views on powdered milk.

mrsj, I just had my first three months ago, and have to say help from the midwives was what made all the difference. I had him in belgium so stayed in hosp for 5 days (normal there) and had them reassuring and helping all that time. As a result, I had no probs whatsoever, but you do need that help and support... THe main thing I didn't realise was that you don't have any major milk for about 4 days, only colostrum (baby only gets about a tablespoon a feed, I was so shocked, wondered how he could survive!), but it's all supposed to happen like that, then suddenly your boobs swell up like barrage balloons and the milk comes in.

What I mean to say is despite literally reading EVErYTHING before the birth, I really needed the practical support of an experienced person shoving him onto my boob, and often showing me how to get him back on, for a couple of days after the birth, when you're a bit wobbly anyway. If your dh and midwives are supportive, that's great.... btw I also did not have much 'in front', till milk came in, that is!

best of luck anyway!

i'm also 26. but my mum breastfed us all, as did my nan with hwer kids and my greatnan with hers. i do know of other families where breastfeeding wasnt done, and this has had some sway on mums now IYSWIM. My mil also bf and has been a good support.

my other 2 sister also breastfed for a while (longest i think was 9months), so no worries about bfeeding round their houses and bil getting het up about seeing breasts lol.

my dad was very shocked when a lady sat near him and asked' do you mind if i breastfeed' he was shocked because she asked, in his mind, you shouldnt have to ask if anyone minds. he is in his 60's.

Emma, I don't know any more than you why you feel bad....it's nothing anyone has said, because no one (as far as I can see) has criticised mothers for using formula, or accused them, or said they are inadequate, or expressed anything other than sympathy (for those who wanted to breastfeed and didn't) and acceptance (for those who chose to formula feed from the staret - event if they say they themselves would not want to do that).

There have been some posts acknowledging the effect on health of infant feeding (without making a huge issue of it, as far as I can see).

No one on this thread has said that formula is 'bad', and no one (except you) has used the word 'inflict' when talking about babies being given formula!

So there is no reason for you to feel bad, based on what this thread says. If you are happy with your feeding method, you will find acceptance. If you are not happy with your choice (or if you have mixed feelings - some people can feel formula was the right choice without being thrilled about it) then you will find sympathy. You don't need 'sympathy' if you are happy with formula.

What's not to like?

not this thread tiktok, other bf/ff threads.

misdee- yes, people certainly did breastfeed of course, but i do think their understanding of how it worked was quite different. my MIL (60s)and SIL(40s) both say their milk dried up, and both were alarmed that i didn't give dd water bewteen feeds, and fed more than every 4 hours, and fed milk in the night rather than water..etc etc. so although mrsj's family be be happy with bf in general, they may be unaware of new understandings of it IYSWIM.

Tired,damning views on formula are based on scientific facts not just my own twisted little mind.
Obviously the companies who produce this don't want you to know about these facts,therefore they are indeed hard to find as the people who want you to know the truth are minnows compared to the sharks that are Nestle Cow & Gate et al.

I will do you a link later if you would like to know more.

Well, Emma....post on the other threads, then, and not here.....you're confusing everyone