I am ashamed of myself for being so judgemental.

[Gingerbear]

A mum from DD's school had a baby last week. I saw her yesterday and was chatting to her about all things baby. Then she got out a bottle and filled it with a carton of formula. I felt my heart sink and I thought, oh no, she hasn't even tried to breastfeed. I was about to say, 'I will be breastfeeding again next time' but held my tongue. I have no idea about her views, if she had problems with breastfeeding and I don't know her well enough to broach the subject.
It is such a personal issue, and so easy to offend someone. I just feel so sad and frustrated at myself for being unable to speak to her.

well SP in that example the ff is judging the other mother very very harshly indeed.
I think in that example the ff mother should examine her own prejudices and quite frankly the other mother cannot be held responsible for what the ff mother feels in your example.
to put it another way - I have had a Csection and a forceps birth. there is not a hope in hell of me ever having a straighforward vaginal birth. that is, and was, all very painfu for me emotionally.
when I hear other mothers tell me about their straightforward births, or comment it that it is a shame that women don't experience vaginal birth if I thought "Oh she thinks I didn't try hard enough, that I didn't care enough, and she is judging me as a mother"
that would be just plain bonkers and totally self obsessed.

But Harpsichord, that is how it makes some ff mothers feel.

They already feel guilty and they are hypersenstive to perceived judgement.

TBH I think if anyone said to a mother on any issue 'I feel sad for your child beacuse of x, y, z of they way you parent' thay would get a defensive reply and would cause hurt.

I think ff mothers are particuarly 'bonkers' or 'self obsessed' with this issue as they have not dealt with their own feelings on it properly and so are easily hurt by perceived judgement.

I am asking other mothers to be aware of this senstivity and the potential impact of thier comments.

yes and i am going to ask that if FF mother sees me breastfeeding, please dont feel you have to explain why you are FF, as dd3 will pop off mty breast and grin at you. and i dont want to make you feel bad, but i dont want to have to hide away in the corner in case i offend anyone.

misdee - you should think yourself lucky! ds1 used to look round and grin - whilst keeping a firm grip of my nipple with his teeth!

Absolutely Misdee.

Although the bonkers gulit ridden ff mothers will probably explain anyway, but give them some sign you are not judging them and they should soon shut up.

Most /many ff mothers are failed pro bf mothers.

I was the only one ff in my NCT group and we all got along great and were very supportive. I talked openly about my guilt and disappointment, and did not feel judged.

Equally I gave support to those struggling with bf to keep going as I knew they wanted to.

I would have been and still a, very sensitive to feeling judged though, and look through this thread there are many of us bonkers self obsessed failures out there.

Is this still going on?

Blimey. I do not care how any woman feeds her bay as long as it gets fed tbh.

I breast fed my ds for 1 week. I hated it. It hurt, my boobs were sore, nipples were bleeding, yada yada.

I gave him some formula (with tears streaming dowm my face)

He survived and I survived.

End of.

You wait... I give it 30 seconds before someone is telling you you've damaged his gut for life. Bloody nutters

we are all mums trying to get on with so much juggling finances, demands of a baby, so the fact that people are speculating and discussing one mums individual choice to FF rather than breast really appalls me. How bloody sanctimonious that you feel sad...blimey how condescending...Go polish your breast feeding halo and leave this poor woman to her business.

you have no idea what the womans individual circumstances are.

You are all entitled to your opinion but i hope u dont spontaneously offer it. frankly none of ur business

move on - butt out

well said!i cant believe its still going on either!

The funny thing is in RL this has never been an issue. It just seems to be on here that we all get worked up about it.

I'm not really coming onto mumsnet at the moment, as I am taking a break from it, but I have followed this thead with a lot of interest.

While individual people's circumstances are their own business, and no one need comment on them unless invited, I do think the whole issue of breast and formula feeding is more than just an indivdual thing.

If women are giving formula when they had not planned to, if women are finding it very hard to combine work, or even to go out the house, with breastfeeding, if women end up switching to formula before they wanted to because breastfeeding has been a total mess in any of the million ways it can be a mess.....then, sorry, that is sad.

Why would I not feel sad for those women who end up feeling let down, disappointed, in pain, pressured, isolated, desperate, like a failure....why would I not feel sad when I hear and see the tears and the heartbreak of women who wanted to breastfeed, and then didn't?

There is every chance the mum Gingerbear saw fell into one of those categories - given that we know many women who are formula feeding at a week started off breastfeeding and then stopped early on, and given that we know some women might be embarrassed to bf away from home.

So Gingerbear might well have felt sad for her - but wisely, she did not speak to her about it, and because she was sensitive to this, she did not even mention her own breastfeeding hopes, in case that might offend the mother (who she did not know very well).

No, I don't feel the same about women who were happy to choose to formula feed and are perfectly happy doing it...and while I think breastfeeding is a worthwhile experience for mothers and babies, I don't think everyone is going to agree with me about that, and that's up to them.

But feeling sad is not being condescending, or smug, or holier than thou, or wearing a halo. It's actually seeing beyond the surface of things, and recognising that the majority of women (9 out of 10) who stop breastfeeding when their babies are still young would have liked to continue (UK Infant Feeding Survey).

That's being sensitive - don't you think? And it's recognising that we have a very poor support system for mothers who plan to breastfeed. What's smug about that?

All your sad feelings are for the mother and seem supportive. That is great and does not seem smug or condescending that is what mothers need.

I think it's the feeling sad for the baby that pushes the emotional buttons of failed bfer's, and I agree choosing not to feed is a differnt category. We want to be great, successful mothers and for someone to feel sad for our baby that we are doing our best for is very painful.

Can't we just acknlowledge that bf is best and mothers should be given support, but also that poeple who fail (and that is how it can feel) are very sensitive, so those who want to support should be sensitive to the commnets they make, on here and in RL, and the emotional impact the language they use can have?

Please see the hurt caused on this thread. How is that helpful?

i dislike the idea of failing at breastfeeding, its not a bloomin exam!

I am bewildered why if people say they are upset and offended by the use of the term 'sad for the baby' why it is so important to persist with it.

No one is saying on here ff is just as good as bf, we all know it isn't.

Just some acknowledgement of the hurt caused by the perception of this comment, would go a long way.

The issue seems more important than peoples feelings, and most of these are people who did want to BF.

I know I am repeating myself and should now retire, but I really am bewildered.

Why are women not more supportive of each other??

misdee - I didn't say people failed at breastfeeding. I said a mother may feel 'like a failure' and that is what many women say it's like...just as SP says.

I avoid the terms success and failure because they are loaded, and I agree with your feelings about the word!

SP - there is a lot of hurt expressed on this thread. But it's pointed in the wrong direction!

No Misdee, it's not but that is exactly how it can feel.

People say which comment hurt them Tiktok, how can you tell them that is not right??

Anyway, I thought your post was supportive and not judgemental, just wish there was more of that about.

I was disappointed i couldn't breastfeed as it goes with my general attitude to parenting and I agree it is the best start.But heartbroken?I think this topic always becomes ridiculous on MN I never hear people in RL talk in these terms

Noddy - it is not easy to express heartbreak about not breastfeeding, but I can assure you this exists. Please don't belittle people's feelings about this by saying it's 'ridiculous'. Of course you don't hear people talk in real life about it - they keep these feelings to themselves. Not everyone feels as strongly as this, but many do.

Smileys: you yourself said 'I think ff mothers are particuarly 'bonkers' or 'self obsessed' with this issue as they have not dealt with their own feelings on it properly and so are easily hurt by perceived judgement. ' So you acknowledge yourself that the strong hurt comes from unresolved feelings, rather than the (very mild) comments about seeing someone formula feed voiced on this thread. That's not belittle these feelings either - they are real and they are painful. But the anger shown to the OP and others is commeasurate with these feelings and not commeasurate with the comments.

tiktok, i didnt say you said uit

i didnt fail at breastfeedign with dd1, it was lack of support that made breastfeeding very hard and not likely to carry on due to midwife and Hv incompentatence. and being told to top up as dd1 was slow to gain.

i didnt fail dd1 by not being able to carry on, yes my pride was dented, and i di feel awful but i'm not sure i was heartbroken or feeling like a failure.

yes, i am stupidly proud of still breastfeeding dd3 who is 2 next month, but not smug about or gloating. its been bloody hard work to get this far, and often felt like stopping earlier.

now i think i should stop posting on this thread.

I am not belittling anyones feelings just commenting.God these threads are ott

I think it worth saying, that Gingerbear did not say she felt sad for the baby.

At any point.

Whatsoever.

She said she felt sad and ashamed at her initial thoughts.

I feel a bit sad for my friend's little girl, who can't have lots of nice foods that have dairy in because she's got a serious, epipen-needing kind of allergy (they run in the family). Of course that's a feeling I could mention to my friend without upsetting her, if I wanted to. Someone saying they feel sad for a formula-fed baby because they haven't been breastfed, to his or her mum, is a different matter in that way - it could be a real clanger - in fact even coming out with how they feel sad for the mum in that situation could be tactless and inconsiderate if said thoughtlessly. But does the underlying emotion itself actually need to be apologised for in any of those cases?? Honestly? Is it that extreme??

Tiktok, I don't think you can separate the two things. People are over senstive, so people should acknowledge this and be sensitive to them.

That's what I mean about supporting each other more.

I don't ubderstand why when people say they are upset by something, the response is, well you shouldn't be...well I am beacuse...well you shouldn't be beacuse... and so we go round and around.

We don't need old male out of touch consultants to make us feel bad about our mothering, we seem to be able to do that so each other...and that makes me sad.