Breastfeeding difficulties

[Eulalia]

Cam - I meant the bit, and I quote "your breast milk will have changed so that it is only a drink, not a food". I was saying that it is more than just a drink and is indeed a food and a lot more besides. Maybe you didn't mean it to come out like that.

Oh and the adapting bit was about the fat content, enzymes, hormones etc changing as the child gets older. Older kids even though they are eating solid food benefit from breastmilk too. It would be impossible to just produce water from your boobs! (OK being sarcastic now :-0)) Some people think that the calories aren't needed by an older baby - yes indeed they don't rely totally on breastmilk for food but it is a valuable snack food.

And a 18 month child can benefit from the antibodies just the same as a 12 month or 6 month etc. The comforting aspect is very important too. There is nothing to match calming a toddler with a temper tantrum! OK I'll start repeating myself ....

Eulalia you say you believe in child led weaning- I also believe in the concept. I realise all children are different but when do you anticipate stopping yourself? Have you ever left your child for prolonged times?
Going back to my issue- leaving her for 3.5 days- what would you do in my position?
Oh and another question!!! Do you find your child looks for milk often still or only when he is tired or hungry for meals,eg just before lunch. Mine tends to look for the breast at these trigger times. When I say "looks for" I mean frantically pulling at my top!!

Rootsy - I really don't know when I'll stop breastfeeding. I have no set idea of when is the "right" time. I think just gradually phasing it out. Certainly till he is about 2 anyway. No I've never left him for longer than an evening so I don't know what I'd do in your situation. How does she get on with her grandparents in general? Presumably OK if you are happy with leaving her for that long. If you are not there then the trigger for breastfeeding won't occur so she might be OK. If she is OK with being put to bed and comforted generally without the breast then I'd not worry about going away.

You didn't say why you had to go away - I am not being nosy asking why just wondering if it is an important event. Could you put it off or go away for less time?

I guess you don't want to stop breastfeeding and it would be a shame for just a one-off situation like this. You should try expressing some milk while she is away. It doesn't have to be a lot but it will keep the flow going. The problem with going away so soon (next week did you say) is that your body doesn't know about it and is used to producing milk every day. If you don't express milk you may become engorged which may be painful. However the extent of this depends on how much milk you are producing. The older the child is the more able it seems that your body can adapt. It is difficult for me to advise you as I've never been away. Try La Leche League International www.lalecheleague.org/ - you can email a question to a counsellor and they usually answer within 24 hours.

It varies as to how much my son wants the breast. Certainly if he is tired or wanting comfort. He can go for most of hte day without if we are out and he is distracted. He pulls at my jumper too. It has happened at playgroup but no-one notices. Sometimes I take him into another room for a quick feed - perhaps only a minute and he is refreshed and just runs off and plays again. I find this aspect of being able to satisfy his emotional needs one reason for carrying on with breastfeeding.

Hope you have a good trip and let us know how your daugher gets on.

Thanks for the reply, Eulalia. The trip is with my husbands work- its his annual awards ceremony- being held in Dublin. My daughter gets on well with her grandparents and my sister in law is very close and she has 2 boys one aged 5 yrs and one 14 months. I'm happy that she will have a good time. You're right that I don't realy want to stop feeding because of the trip although my mother thinks I should stop by now and that this will be the perfect "excuse".I'll contact La Leche though, thanks.
Does your son suck his thumb? As I mentioned my daughter does and I notice that its more often if the breast is not avail for whatever reason.

Rootsy - no my son has never sucked his thumb. Didn't like a dummy either. Prefers the real thing. Apparently in societies where the mothers 'wear' their babies in slings all day thumbsucking is unheard of. It is a breast substitute and if you don't like it then just breastfeed more. As I say sometimes 30 secs is just enough.

I don't know how old you or your mum are but women who brought up babies in the 60s (as I was) tend to be a bit suspicious of breastfeeding beyond a certain age. I think it is regarded as being just for babies and they "get too old" for it. No-one seems to complain that kids are in nappies for longer these days though. I just apply the "if it ain't broke then why fix it?" attitude and carry on.

Have a nice trip.

I forget who had previously mentioned mastitis and breastfeeding but I came across this resource.

Basically it states that stopping breastfeeding when you have mastitis was at one time common advice. However this is unnecessary and in fact can make the condition worse.

Mastitis may or may not be due to an infection. The primary cause is actually due to inefficient removal of milk. Often a duct can become blocked which is usually due to milk statis (ie collection of milk in the breasts) and this may lead to infection because the milk is stagnant.

In any case the best thing obviously is not to let this happen in the first place. Often in modern hospitals baby isn't put to the breast quickly enough or feedings are scheduled or difficulties arise. Instead of dealing with the breastfeeding problem (usually something like poor latching on) the midwife will advise the mother to stop breastfeeding. The delay in getting breastfeeding established can lead to infection.

Even if the breast is infected the best way to treat the condition is to continue to breastfeed the child or to express the milk. This will clear the blockage. Stopping breastfeeding when the mother has mastitis could even make the condition worse.

For the full text see - whqlibdoc.who.int/hq/2000/WHO_FCH_CAH_00.13.pdf

Mastitis - Causes and Management, Dept of Child and Adolescent Health and Development, World Health Organisation, Geneva, 2000

message withdrawn

I am anything but an "earth mother" but I personally loved breast feeding... Eulalia has previously supplied some good info on the impact of alcohol on breastmilk which showed that it wasn't a huge problem.

Eulalia, its not true that babies will not suck their thumb if they are breast fed, as my son sucked his thumb from 3 months old, and I was breast feeding him then. Plus, children have sucked their thumb since way before bottle feeding came along. Haven't you read the Brother's Grimm and other victorian tales about what happens to children that suck their thumb!Its always gruesome and the kids love reading about it!

My baby was permanently on the breast for the first couple of months (well it felt like it anyway!) and was breastfed until 14 months. He is a manic thumb sucker at nights at 20 months to the extent that he has a raw mark on his thumb and a matching blister on his mouth.Maybe though its because he enjoyed breastfeeding so much and found it such a comfort that he just wanted more!.

It was a shame to hear Jack Dee on Celeb Big Brther last night comment that it was weird to breastfeed a child until 2. I find these views truly perplexing. I cannot see why it bothers anyone if the mother and child are both happy about it.

Bells, I hope Jack Dees story about that 5 year old still breast-feeding and saying f off to the Health Visitor was a joke!

Actually Lil, I thought it probably was as true as the stories he told the other inmates about what he did on his escape attempt!

Bells, surely you don't think 5 year old's should still be breastfeeding. I cannot think of any justification for that at all, unless the child has been very sick and requires breastmilk for medicinal reasons. All mammals wean their infants, usually when the infant can successfully survive on other forms of nutrition, so I struggle a bit with the notion of children, as opposed to babies, still breast-feeding.
I'm putting the full body armour on!

Completely agree Bugsy, the mothers that do this must have their own psychological problems, because there can be no nutritional justification. And as for psychological justification, well it has to have a negative impact after a certain age, not a positive one.

Bugsy, shall we put up the defences....

I was actually referring to the age of 2 which is what Jack Dee said was "weird". We've had this discussion before elsewhere on the board. Obviously in many other countries children are routinely breast fed until they are 3 or 4. Personally I have no view on whether children should or shouldn't be breastfed at a certain age, just that if both mother and child are happy about it, what's the problem?.

I gave up breastfeeding at 14 months because I wanted to conceive another child. If it wasn't for that I imagine I would have kept a night feed for another 6 months or so.

I hope I'm not repeating something that has already been discussed. Basically, what do you feel about mixed feeding? Personaly, I think it is a really good compromise. Throughout out my first pregnancy, I was rather unsettled by the amount of pro-breastfeeding material there was lying around doctors surgeries, etc. Although there are extremely good health reasons, as detailed on this board, and I wanted to breast feed my baby, I felt the whole message was rammed home much too heavily. I thought,'what about the women who can't breast feed. It must make them feel so guilty'

I had heard about mixed feeding ( formula and breast) and liked the fact that it offered me some independence, while allowing me to continue to breastfeed. But all the literature I read on the subject, and the advice from the nurse was rather negative, always stressing the cons of doing this eg the possibility of my milk supply drying up, without telling me how to make it workable.

It took a friend to tell me what I really wanted to know: she advised me to start my son on a daily bottle of formula at about 10 weeks old, before he had got too used to 100% breast. I did this and my son soon took breast or bottle quite easily. This meant I could start to get some of my life back, and go to job interviews, which I had to do at the time. I had tried to express milk but found this impossible.

Because the pressure was off me, I contined to breast feed my son until he was 10 months old. When my second son was born, I did exactly the same.

Giving them bottles of formula throughout definitely enabled me to give them more breast milk for longer. Has anyone else done this?

Actually Tigermoth I did the same as you. I had great difficulty getting breastfeeding established and my baby had his first formula at around 3 weeks although he was back exclusively on breast milk by around 8 weeks. After about 5-6 months he had a mixture of both.

You mention that the breastfeeding message is rammed home too heavily. I think this does need to be seen in the context that only around 40% of women in the UK (Eulalia - correct me if I'm wrong)breastfeed which is considerably lower than other countries.

As it happens I was subject to a huge amount of negative comments about my decision to breastfeed my baby beyond 6 months from just about everyone except my husband. Many people made clear their revulsion at this, particularly when we passed the 1 year mark. Frankly I was disgusted by their attitudes especially the "sexualising" of the process.

Bells, you have hit the nail right on the head. I did not breast feed my 2, they were both bottle fed and off the bottle by 10 months onto a cup. But, I do not think that there is anything wrong breast feeding, my HV was very supportive with both when I bottle fed them. A lot of women just do not want to breast feed, and I think they should not be frowned upon by some people in society. You are right, about weaning, more mammals wean themselves by the age of 2, as by that time they are getting nutrition from other sources. My friend breast fed her daughter until she was 18 months, and she was working from when baby was 6 months old, and she went straight onto a cup very easily in fact my eldest and her baby started a cup around the same time.

No Lil, you don't need to put the defences up, you are doing nothing but speaking the truth.

But Tigger, i think Eulalia might be getting out the canons!!

What I want to know is, where is Sml?? Am v. concerned that she may have been frightened off by the copywright worry....

Brace yourself Lil, I'm coming in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, full body armour en route!!!!!!!!

I'm new to this particular message board.....and I'm afraid, very afraid.....

Oh dear I am not sure I have the energy to comment on this issue further. Perhaps I should just direct everyone onto the extended breastfeeding board as there is a full discussion on there about breastfeeding into toddler-hood and beyond. However I will repeat myself again, and again here ....

Robinw - I didn't say that everyone HAD to enjoy breastfeeding. Everyone has different experiences and we all know that any aspect of bringing up a child can have it's difficulties. As Rootsy points out you can still drink a few glasses of wine. Personally I don't like to have more anyway. I shall just ignore the earth mother snide remark.

Lil - all babies may suck their thumbs. It is the frequency with which they are breastfed that determines the likelihood. Many mothers have less time for demand/comfort feeding so the baby spends less time at the breast so will resort to other means - thumbs, dummies etc. There is nothing wrong with this but some people don't like thumb sucking/dummies because of what they can do to teeth - I have no particular view on this and it just has to be managed like any habit.

As for your comment on extended breastfeeding - I quote: "well it has to have a negative impact after a certain age". Why does it HAVE to have a negative impact? You are prejuding the issue here. Give me some evidence please.

I know of someone who breastfed their child till age 5 and she was perfectly normal. I am sure a lot of it goes on and no-one would ever know. Age 7 is about the maximum recorded by children in Africa.

Bugsy - yes you struggle with the notion of children breastfeeding - that is precisely the difficulty that most people have. It is just a case of thinking differently. Actually other mammals wean later than humans do on an age-age basis. So it is humans that are being "abnormal" in this context.

Bells - you can conceive, have a pregnancy and breastfeed 2 children if you want to.

Bells - yes I agree the process is sexualised. It is our attitude that breasts are sex objects primarily that is wrong not the fact that people want to breastfeed for X no. of months/years.

The stats for breastfeeding in the UK are just under 50% at birth, dropping to 42% at 6 weeks and 27% at 4 months and continuing to fall. I think the large no of pamphlets etc are because of the poor uptake. However I do think that it is all very well saying "do it" but people need the proper support and information. I have heard of women being quite blatently misinformed about breastfeeding. There is no point in blaming women or trying to make them feel guilty if they are misguided. I know I was.

I have done a lot of research into this issue (as you can tell) and I merely want to share my information with others. As far as I can tell this has been very useful. However one or two seem to be taking the p*. I don't go around saying that people are damaging their babies by bottle-feeding so why are the long-term breastfeeders being implicity criticised? Indeed some people never want to breastfeed or have had very bad experiences with it. However on the whole nearly everyone I have spoken to has wanted to do it even if it was only for a short time or they regret not doing afterwards. It is precisely because of the misinformation and lack of support that they have these feelings of regret/guilt/anger or whatever. I merely want to point out that it can be a positive experience and difficulties can be overcome and why not have as much information about it as possible?

Good on you Eulalia - I am with you all the way on this one!. I know you can conceive, just that I wasn't succeeding so thought that giving up breastfeeding might help. As it happens it didn't and I regretted it.

So where's everyone with the counter-arguments! :-) I have to go out just now anyway. Bells - I am currently trying to find out more about b/feeding and how it affects your fertility. It is a tricky one as it varies from woman to woman. I am still having v irregular periods but I could still well be ovulating perfectly OK each month. I think how fertile you were before still counts in your likelihood of getting pregnant again and you can still carry on with the b/feeding. Again it is a common misconception that being breastfeeding will somehow affect the development of a new baby.