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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Breastfeeding difficulties

217 replies

Eulalia · 28/02/2001 18:37

Cam - I meant the bit, and I quote "your breast milk will have changed so that it is only a drink, not a food". I was saying that it is more than just a drink and is indeed a food and a lot more besides. Maybe you didn't mean it to come out like that.

OP posts:
Lou33 · 01/06/2001 23:03

Tiktok,
I am in the UK and my advisor is english too! Apparently domperidone can be bought over the counter so if my gp wont prescribe it I can buy it. I have ordered the supplementary feeding system , and along with a combo of everything else I am hoping to get going again.

I know his positioning etc was ok until recently because he was getting loads of milk out and my nipples were not sore, but recently he is reluctant to latch on and will not open his mouth very wide so my nipples are sore again, so I am back to using the purelan cream to protect them. I guess I am going to have to view him as a newborn and teach him all over again, which was no easy task in the first place.

Thanks again for all your help, nice to know there is a sympathetic ear around!

Nusch · 03/06/2001 20:46

I'd just add to Lou and anyone else having difficulties, that I'd recommend trying both NCT and La Leche League for a counsellor. I had huge difficultes for about two months (see v first message on this thread). My NCT counsellor was lovely, supportive, etc but was very careful to try and make me feel that it would not be the end of the world if I couldn't feed. The LLL counsellor was sort of 110% committed to bf and for me, that worked better, because she totally understood why I would be so devestated to stop. Both wonderful people, both v knowledgeable but different styles of organisation so I'd just say try both and see which suits.

Hilda · 07/06/2001 14:54

Has anyone else felt that breastfeeding was overly pushed in antenatal classes, but without adequate help to check that baby was ok?
My baby was readmitted to hospital with jaundice and it was only then he was weighed and found to have lost 15% of his bodyweight and was dehydrated. It was only at that point that I was told he needed formula. He's been on mixed feeding eversince and is now doing fine. How many other people out there have had trouble with supply and have done mixed feeding?

Bells1 · 07/06/2001 15:12

I didn't really feel that breastfeeding was overly pushed as such in antenatal classes but it was very much something I wanted to do. We had a miserable start to feeding and my baby too had lost 15% of his body weight after a couple of weeks although he wasn't dehydrated. The advice I received was to press ahead with breastfeeding and after about 7 weeks it started to come good. He did have the odd bottle though which was a great sanity saver!. Our son remained "below the line" (having started off "on the line") until he was about 10 months when he caught up. I was never especially worried about it though and certainly never regretted my decision to persevere.

I definitely think there is too much alarmist info out there on mixed feeding but equally, it seems to me that a lot of health professionals are also too quick to recommend formula feeding rather than looking to solve the underlying problem with breastfeeding.

Motherchaos · 08/06/2001 13:16

Bells1 I do so agree with you that sometimes health professionals are too quick to recommend a bottle. Most dehydrated, poorly thriving babies could and should have been picked up earlier by professionals with better training on what good positioning looks and feels like. "Pushing" breastfeeding without follow up support is like issuing someone who has never seen a bike before with a unicycle and telling them they must cycle to work each day then blaming them when they fall off!
If you introduce a bottle into a scenario where the baby is poorly positioned the mother makes even less milk because the breasts aren't being stimulated by the baby feeding so the brain doesn't get the "make milk" message. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of not enough milk. Its so sad, because if you could just sort out the positioning it would sort out the supply problem and the non thriving baby problem.
If all midwives and health visitors received adequate training to support breastfeeding mothers and yes, check that baby is positioned well and feeding effectively from the breast then volunteer breastfeeding counsellors could retire

Mbannister · 10/06/2001 14:02

Dear All,

My wife has just been diagnosed with Breast Cancer and so we are having to move our 6 month old baby Sian onto the bottle pronto (within the next 10 days when Glynis goes in for her Operation). Although I am "administering" the bottle to prevent confusion with Mum, I am very worried about dehydration and any adverse effects this may have on Sian. Any rules of thumb regarding transition to the bottle in so tight a time scale and how we can recognise the early signs of dehyrdation? I have been told that Sian will drink from the bottle when she gets thirsty enough, but I am unsure how far to push it. For example, last night she woke at 1am for a breast feed and again at 6am, but has only had powdered "solid" food with water, some pureed fuit and about a half ounce of milk from the bottle up until 2pm - how much longer can we wait before giving in and breast feeding Sian?

Any advice gratefully received and sorry for a DAD barging in on a MUM's area!

Janh · 10/06/2001 15:52

dear mbannister, bad luck about the cancer and hope the outcome is good...i had 2 tumours detected last oct, surgery in nov and am just finishing 6 months of chemotherapy, radiotherapy to come, i feel very lethargic but side effects have been minimal really. (i don't have a small baby though, my youngest is 8, hope glynis will have lots of help.)
as far as dehydration is concerned, will she take water or very diluted juice from a bottle during the changeover? if she is starting solids the actual milk is less important than it was before...what kind of bottles do you have? playtex teats make them suck in a similar way to breastfeeding, which might help, and the disposable liners shrink as they empty, and minimise wind...
have you consulted your HV or is yours one of the overworked undersympathetic kind? how about NCT and Laleche league? they might have more strategies for you...
best of luck to all of you anyway!!!

Bloss · 10/06/2001 16:39

Message withdrawn

Eulalia · 10/06/2001 18:01

Mbannister - sorry to hear about your wife. What kind of an operation is she having (if you don't mind me asking) and are you sure your wife must give up b/feeding? Is it just for the duration of the stay in hospital - I wasn't clear on this. In any case this is an excellent article -

You Can Still Breastfeed
By Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC

Introduction
Over the years, many, many, many women have been wrongly told to stop breastfeeding. The decision about continuing breastfeeding when the mother must take a drug, for example, involves more than consideration of whether the medication appears in the mother's milk. It also involves taking into consideration the risks of formula feeding for the baby, which are substantial, the risks of not breastfeeding for the mother, which are substantial, and other issues as well. For example, feeding a breastfeeding baby by bottle for the time the mother is on medication (rarely less than 5 days), will very often result in the baby refusing the breast forever or at least becoming very difficult on the breast. On the other hand, it should be taken into consideration that some babies just will not take bottles, so the advice to stop is not only usually wrong, but impractical as well. Furthermore, it is easy to advise the mother to pump her milk when she is not feeding the baby, but adequate pumping is often very difficult to do for some mothers, with the result that the mothers may become very painfully engorged, which may further lead to serious complications.

Breastfeeding and Maternal Medication
Most drugs appear in the milk, but only in very tiny amounts. Although a very few drugs may still cause problems for infants even in tiny doses, this is not the case for the vast majority. Mothers who are told they must stop breastfeeding because of a certain drug should ask to be prescribed an alternative medication which is acceptable for breastfeeding mothers. In this day and age, it is rarely a problem to find such an alternative. If the prescribing physician does not know how to proceed, s/he should get more information. If the prescribing physician is not flexible, the mother should seek another opinion.

Most drugs may be considered safe for the mother to take and continue breastfeeding if:

they are commonly prescribed for infants. Examples are amoxycillin, cloxacillin, most antibiotics.
they are considered safe in pregnancy. Drugs enter directly into the baby's bloodstream when used during pregnancy. The baby generally gets much higher doses at a much more sensitive period during pregnancy, than during breastfeeding. This is not an absolute, however, as during pregnancy, the mother's liver and kidneys will get rid of the drug for the baby.
they are not absorbed from the stomach or intestines. These include many drugs which are given by injection. Examples are gentamicin, heparin, lidocaine or other local anaesthetics used by dentists.
The following frequently used drugs are also generally safe during breastfeeding:

acetaminophen (Tylenol, Tempra), alcohol (in reasonable amounts), aspirin (in usual doses, for short periods), most antiepileptic medications, most antihypertensive medications, tetracycline, codeine, most nonsteroidal antiinflammatory medications, prednisone, thyroxine, propylthiouracil (PTU), warfarin, tricyclic antidepressant medications, sertraline (Zoloft), paroxetine (Paxil), other antidepressants, metronidazole (Flagyl), Nix, Kwellada.
Medications applied to the skin, inhaled or applied to the eyes or nose are almost always safe for breastfeeding.
You can still breastfeeding after general, regional or local anaesthesia. As soon as you are up to it. Medications you might take afterwards for pain are almost always permitted.
Immunizations given to the mother do not require her to stop breastfeeding (including with live viruses such as german measles, Hepatitis A and B).
Get reliable information before stopping breastfeeding. Once you have stopped it may be very difficult to restart, especially if the baby is very young.

Breastfeeding and Maternal Illness
Very few maternal illnesses require the mother to stop breastfeeding. This is particularly true of infections. Most infections are caused by viruses. Most infections caused by viruses are most infectious before the mother realizes she is sick. By the time the mother has fever (or cold, runny nose, diarrhea, vomiting, rash etc), she has already passed on the infection to the baby. However, breastfeeding protects the baby against infection, and the mother should thus continue breastfeeding, in order to protect the baby. If the baby does get sick, he usually is less sick than if breastfeeding had stopped. But often mothers are pleasantly surprised that their babies do not get sick at all. The baby was protected by his mother's continuing breastfeeding.

The only exception to the above is HIV infection in the mother. Until we have more information, it is considered safer for the baby that the mother who is HIV positive not breastfeed, at least where the risks of bottle feeding are acceptable. There are situations, however, even in Canada, where the risk of not breastfeeding is elevated enough that the mother who is HIV positive should nevertheless breastfeed her baby. The final word is not in, however.

Most other maternal illnesses raise questions because of the drugs the mother might have to take. These should rarely be a problem (see above).

X-rays and scans: Ordinary X-rays do not require a mother to stop breastfeeding even when used with contrast (e.g. IVP). A CT scan, MRI scan, even when used with contrast do not require a mother to stop. A radioactive scan (e.g. lung scan, bone scan) does not require a mother to stop. The only exception is a thyroid scan. However, most of the time the scan does not have to be done. See below.

A not uncommon problem in the early months after delivery is a condition called postpartum thyroiditis, a temporary derangement in the thyroid gland's function. A useful test to help understand the condition is a thyroid scan. However, the test requires that radioactive iodine be given to the mother and this material must not be given to nursing mothers. The radioactive iodine will be found in the milk for weeks, and concentrated in the baby's thyroid. There are ways of dealing with postpartum thyroiditis without doing this test. The drugs a mother might have to take to treat postpartum thyroiditis are compatible with continued breastfeeding (e.g. propranolol, propylthiouracil)

Breast Problems
Mastitis (breast infection) and breast abscess are not reasons to stop breastfeeding. Although surgery on a lactating breast is more difficult, the surgery does not necessarily become easier if the mother stops breastfeeding, as milk continues to be formed for weeks after stopping breastfeeding.

Mammograms are more difficult to read if the mother is breastfeeding, but can still be useful. Once again, how long must a mother wait for her breast no longer to be considered lactating? Evaluation of a lump can be done by other means besides mammography. Discuss options with your doctor. Let him/her know breastfeeding is important to you. A needle biopsy, for example, can be done of a lump which is of concern.

New Pregnancy
There is no reason that you cannot continue breastfeeding if you become pregnant. There is no evidence that this does any harm to you, to the baby in your womb or to the one who is nursing. If you wish to stop breastfeeding, take your time and wean slowly.

Infant Problems
Breastfeeding rarely needs to be discontinued for infant illness. Through breastfeeding, the mother is able to comfort the sick child, and, at the same time, the child is able to comfort the mother.

Diarrhea and vomiting. Intestinal infections are rare in exclusively breastfed babies. (Though loose bowel movements are very common in exclusively breastfed babies). The best treatment for this condition if the baby gets it, is to continue breastfeeding. The baby will get better more quickly on breastmilk. The baby will do well with only breastmilk in the vast majority of situations, and will not require added fluids except in extraordinary cases.
Respiratory illnesses. There is a medical myth that milk should not be given to children with respiratory infections. Whether this is true or not for milk, it is definitely not true for breastmilk (and breastfeeding).
Jaundice. Exclusively breastfed babies are commonly jaundiced, even until the 3rd month, though generally the yellow colour of the skin is hardly noticeable. Rather than being a problem, this is normal. (There are causes of jaundice which are not normal, but these do not require stopping breastfeeding). If breastfeeding is going well, jaundice does not require the baby to stop breastfeeding. If breastfeeding is not going well, fixing the breastfeeding will improve the jaundice, whereas stopping breastfeeding even for a short time may completely destroy the breastfeeding. Stopping breastfeeding is not the answer. (See handout #7 Breastfeeding and Jaundice).
If the question you have is not discussed above, do not assume that you must stop breastfeeding. Do not stop, and get more information. Mothers have been told they must stop breastfeeding for reasons too inane to discuss.

This article may be copied and distributed without further permission

Handout #9. You Can Still Breastfeed. Revised January 1998

OP posts:
Janh · 10/06/2001 19:21

eulalia, after breast surgery you are pretty sore and all sorts of movements are very difficult...i could only lie on my back for several days, couldn't turn over, didn't want to sit up much - i don't think breastfeeding a biggish baby would have been possible the way i felt...anyway she couldn't really do it in hospital and they keep you in for nearly a week while the wound drains etc.
after 6 months it's not really critical to carry on breastfeeding anyway...getting the baby used to the bottle asap so they can stop worrying about that at least is really the main thing.

Lou33 · 10/06/2001 23:04

Hilda,
I just saw your message, and had to reply!
I wrote earlier about having problems with my baby breastfeeding because of mixed feeding on the advice of my hospital. My son was readmitted for jaundice too and was discovered to be not putting on his weight as he should have. Mixed feeding has definitely seen his weight gain improve but my milk is so low now, and my baby is refusing my breast in favour of a bottle. This is despite expressing and using a supplemental nursing system to try and boost my milk.
I am devastated by this outcome, because I tried and failed to feed my other three children and this is my last child and my last chance to do such a thing So to anyone out there who is thinking of mixing breast and formula be careful, because you may end up not having a choice about feeding by bottle in the end.

Lisa · 11/06/2001 10:53

Mbannister - I really do reiterate what Bloss has said, Gina Ford does have some good advice for babies who are not feeding well and are refusing bottles. At six months old your baby only needs about 1 pint of milk a day anyway, water can be used inbetween feeds.
Gina Ford's book 'The Contented Little Baby Book' is brilliant and has lots of case studies for you to refer to. Start following her routine guide and sooner or later everything should fall into place. Her book will also guide you on how to get your baby to sleep through, giving you and your wife a good nights sleep.

Best of luck to you and your wife, you sound like a really concerned and caring guy, hope it all works out.

Eulalia · 11/06/2001 11:52

Janh - I guess it depends upon the type of surgery and I wasn't clear what type this was and if chemotherpy was involved. My post was just a reminder that it can be possible to carry on. Also should you wish it is possible to feed your baby with only one breast. My friend has neck problems and has fed her son from birth to present (age 6 months) this way. The hospital should be supportive of a mother's choice (although sadly they aren't always) and allow access to baby.

Good luck Mbannister with your wife.

OP posts:
Mbannister · 11/06/2001 13:13

Dear all,

Thanks very much for all your help and kind words. At the moment we are still waiting for a mamogram, so don't know the exact extent of the surgery, but we think it will be for a lump in the right breast and the removal of the lymph glands from under the right arm. This will be followed by chemotherapy and eventually radio therapy. The advice from the hospital to stop breast feeding seems good, but all attempts to get any milk in by bottle or beaker have failed so far.

My wife tells me that the HV has deigned to call today and has recommended total withdrawal of the breast, much along the lines of Ginas advice from what I can gather. There seems little likelyhood of dehydration apparently, so I think this is the method to go for - albeit the stress levels all round are going to climb through the roof. I'll keep you posted on progress.

Thannks again,

//\artyn, Glynis and little Sian.

Janh · 11/06/2001 14:21

mbannister, that's exactly what i had - lumpectomy at right side of right breast and into lymph nodes. the surrounding tissue is completely numb afterwards, because they sever the nerves (but mine have repaired themselves up to a point), but the area is still stiff and sore and you can't do much with your arm to begin with; they give you exercises to restore mobility.
is glynis right-handed? does she generally carry sian with her right or left arm? if she uses the right it might be a good idea to practise left-handed carrying before she has the op. my email is [email protected] if she would like to compare notes...

Pupuce · 11/06/2001 15:01

Dear MBannister

As you seem to acknowledge, this is going to be a rough time with such a small child... I also want to recommend that you follow Gina Ford's advice and routine (the book is available on amazon.co.uk). My friends who started on Gina Ford's routine with babies of an older age (4-5 months old) found it very easy and it took maximum a week for the baby to sleep from 7PM to 7 AM - which considering what you are going to go through might be a blessing ! You just need to read the book and the Q&As and case studies - you will see it will answer most of your questions.
As for dehydration - I was told that if you noticed red dots in your baby's nappy (in the wee)... that might be a sign. But at such a late stage I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Good luck

Chairmum · 11/06/2001 22:12

Martyn, an NCT breastfeeding counsellor could help you make the right decisons in the right way for you and your family. They are available on 0870 444 8708. Their services are open to everyone, not just NCT members. Also, NCT has an Experiences Register where they can put you in touch with other parents in the same situation. The number to call is 0870 444 8707

Wishing you and your family all the very best.

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