Educate me: why would you not want your baby to have the colostrum if no medical reason?

[RainbowsFriend]

Just found out that a couple of my social circle are not attempting breastfeeding second time around, but will be going for bottles from day one. No medical problems/issues, just said it would be easier to have bottles and a toddler than breastfeed.

I didn't want to pry, and I respect their choice of course, but I'm really curious why you would not even express the colostrum to give your child - I thought it was soooo important for the immune system.

I admit I'm a bit biased as I still bfeed DD 22 months, and do use it as a parenting tool to a certain extent. We massively struggled at first as DD had a missed tongue tie that wasn't picked up til 5 months, so I know what it's like to have pain and struggle, and I remember from when our toddlers were little that these mums had to give up fairly quickly first time around and know how difficult it was. But why not express a bit of colostrum?

So please let me know so I can understand better?

Two things - firstly ffeeding and bfeeding are not equal in any way. Advice to imply ffeeding is the 'norm' undermines breastfeeding as the 'norm'. Seeing as I have boobs not bottles attached to my chest wall I think it's clear which is the biological norm.
Secondly - anecdote does not = evidence. Your experiences wih your child and your sister's child may suggest conclusions to you and of course it's jolly good taht your child is so well. That doesn't prove anything about the health benefits or otherwise of one from of feeding over the other.
You need studies properly and objectivey conducted with thousands of mums and babies to do that. That work has been done and continues to be done and it supports the health benefits of breastfeeding.

Just wish this issue didn't keep coming up, there are so many things to contribute I am one of 3 my mum bf my eldest brother tried with my other brother and didn't bother with me, we are all different in health etc they both have high cholesterol which is a hereditary kind I do not. my eldest brother has a skin condition, me and my middle brother constantly had tonsillitis when in teens ( he although ff got colostrum) so again my point is I really don't see the argument I just think it should be a personal decision for a woman and they should receive equal advice and care when embarking on both.

That are equal I understand its as nature intended, but things evolve we don't still eat meat raw like millions of years ago we cook it etc nothing should b the "norm" to say there is a "norm" is wrong in its self.

And just for the record I never said either were the "norm"

Research into the benefits of BF is challenging because of the problems of confounding variables and obviously the quality of existing research varies enormously. It is possible to review the research and conclude that the benefits that have genuinely been demonstrated are small enough not to be significant to you/your baby as an individual. Part of that conclusion is about an attitude to what constitutes acceptable risk levels and what you personally perceive the costs of BF/FF to be to you. Therefore it is possible to be informed, adequately supported and to choose FF, including not expressing colostrum.

I am breastfeeding my nearly 1 yr old. But when he was born, he was taken away from me for the night and given formula. I do not know why. I managed to b'feed him the next day though. Perhaps if I hadn't been intent on bf I would have let him carry on being ff. The midwives thought it was best for him after all? Sometimes it isn't your choice.

Bloody hell, don't they have to get your consent before doing that?

For those who think I didn't come back - I did last night (I work and my toddler is a bit demanding so I only get a few minutes before bed) I'll repost:

^"I really really wasn't "judging" people who chose to formula feed- or even asking why people choose to formula feed - as people have said there are many reasons. I'm sorry if people were offended by what they thought I was asking.

I was asking why people who choose to formula feed (their choice etc, and YES I DO RESPECT IT) - why don't they express a bit of colostrum, or feed for a few days so the baby gets the colostrum.

Which was answered in the first few posts - it's hard to express colostrum, and is harder to stop breastfeeding if you do start even if for a few days. Consider me educated on that.

Fine and great, so can we all go back to supporting and respecting each others decisions on how we feed our kids please?"^

Additionally I apologise if people thought my post was worded badly.

I apologise if people were offended by my genuine question.

I apologise if my question about people who choose to FF, NOT who can't bfeed upset those who tried unsuccessfully to breastfeed.

Yes I could have worded it better but I was just curious what reasons people would have for not expressing a bit of colostrum, given that I had been told, repeatedly and from different sources, that colostrum is a real boost to a newborn's immune system.

OK so you may just not want to. You may not believe the hype about colostrum. Etc, etc,

My original reasons for asking this was I wanted to know if maybe the mothers involved might actually WANT to express some, or not have considered it, and IF so maybe I could help them with eg technique tips etc as I know that midwives just do not have the time. I gather from the responses on this thread that it would probably be seen as judging and superior coming from a bfing mother. And unwanted interference. I'll just stick to helping out with occupying the toddlers then as required, which is lovely anyway as they're cutees :)

Shall I ask for this thread to be deleted as it seems to have stirred up so much bile?

Don't ask for the thread to be deleted, in part because it won't be deleted.

I think you are right to not raise it with your friends as there are plenty of opportunities for people/sources to tell them about the benefits of BF and have that conversation at antenatal appointments.

You certainly don't want to come across as the type of person who raises the issue, ignores the mother's response, does a head tilted, eyes closed head nod as a sign of empathy and then witters on about the mother not being supported enough. I am sure that there are women out there who are not given enough support, but there are definitely women who have made an educated choice and would rather not be patronised.

I really would not do any of that anyway.

I don't patronise.

Good - those people are rare, though MN sometimes gives the impression that they aren't.

Two things - firstly ffeeding and bfeeding are not equal in any way

Of course they are, they are equal in that they are both ways of feeding your baby.

Advice to imply ffeeding is the 'norm' undermines breastfeeding as the 'norm'

But according to the published rates of BF, FF is the 'norm'

Seeing as I have boobs not bottles attached to my chest wall I think it's clear which is the biological norm

Yes, of course, BF is the biological norm.

Lack of support post birth for Mums who want to BF is a big part of why the BF rates are so low after 6 weeks post birth. that needs addressing, but it won't because it is a matter of funding as ever. Lots of us are aware of poor post natal care.

But I also don't like the lack of support/advice for Mums who choose to FF. Total withdrawal of FF advice is not the way to force Mums into BF IMO. That in itself shows how Mums are judged for not BF!

So much pressure on Mums and so little support, add that to all the judging and use of the word fail constantly, it is no wonder people get so het up over this issue.

Rainbows, it's such a sensitive topic that IMO, it simply wouldn't be possible to word your question in such a way as to make you immune from accusations of insensitivity, or worse.

Well said amberleaf not enough support for everybodyboth bf and ff !!!Altho I have been enjoying the benifits of sure start in my area, only to find there is a breast feeding support group what about support groups for formula feeding mums?
I think it is assumed that ff is easy but actually it's not always simple.
I'm a new mum and didn't have a clue about either thanks to my mum she helped me out with sterilising, different teats, how much to make etc.
it is defiantly not treated as equal when it should be as it has been said they are both a ways to feed a baby.

Slightly off topic, but we were addressing the very issue of the need for BF support groups at my BF support group and one of the reasons a lot of women brought up was that they didn't know anyone else who BF, their mums hadn't BF, their aunts hadn't, their friends hadn't, some of them had never seen anyone breastfeed let alone heard about possible BF problems or met anyone who was having the same difficulties. OTOH, Lynz, for instance, had her mum to help out with advice on how to FF.

Not saying that there shouldn't be advice on how to FF safely etc. from official sources as well, but given that BF isn't a cultural norm in the UK and Ireland any more I can totally see the need for that kind of special support.

I agree with Leedy about the reasons that BF support is needed. Out of a very large circle of family and friends, I am the only one who has breastfed for any length of time (past a few days/weeks). My Mum FF from 6 weeks, as did all my Aunts, my counsins, my siblings, most of my friends too. If I wanted advice or information regarding FF, it is easy to get from friends and family. On the other hand, when I had huge problems BF at the beginning, proper help was very difficult to find and midwives, HV's etc were unable to help or support me. Often even the health professional's answer to BF problems is to 'top up' with formula or give formula.

Of course mothers who use formula for any reason and in any quantities need good support, information and help with any of the technicalities that pop up....any midwife or HV who does not do all or any of this is simply not doing her job.

But women don't need to be 'enabled' to formula feed. They have the cultural and social support that comes from doing what the vast majority of women do at some point.

A support group for ff mothers solely would be a very difficult setting. There would be people who are experiencing grief and a sense of personal devastation at using formula (because they never wanted to do anything but bf) and those who ff from the start from personal choice and who don't have any confidence or give any credence to the notion of health differences. In fact, a few of them are actually unpleasant about mothers who feel there is a health impact.

What sort of a 'support group' is that going to be? :)

One that adjusts to its users requirements?

Even in discussing the need for various forms of support there is devision.

I don't think there is a need for ff support groups. Any mother who does not know can just ask the HV. HVs on the other hand don't tend to know an awful lot about bf-ing and often come with their own preconceptions/prejudices.

I have found HVs to be negative and unhelpful on FF related matters though.

Lots of people have said here and on other threads that when they asked for FF advice, they were not helped or supported.

There clearly is a need, as is there a need for more/better BF support. It isn't a competition of who needs support more.

I think the difference in support groups for ff is that once ff is established (in as early as the first few days) in terms of quantities, use of equipment etc, what else is there to discuss in terms of technicalties as it has been put? Information can easily be sought on the internet or if all else fails on the back of the bottle/steriliser boxes and as far as i know (and correct me if im wrong) but the quantites in relation to ages/weight are indicated on the formula box.

Bf on the other hand comes with a whole host of technical difficulties/issues that many people arent told about before they begin and which i have found out myself in my first 12 weeks as a bf mother. Including latch problems (and associated sore nipples etc), difficulties expressing, cluster feeding, growth spurts, leaky boobs etc. As well as this are the social and cultural difficulties of feeding in public and the attitudes and feelings of some observers towards this. Along with these come psychological issues which are associated with the problems faced which in my case have led to a constant battle of conscience over whether to continue. I imagine that these support groups are there for mothers such as myself to gain the support and encoaragement which may help us to continue.

I dont have an opinion on how other people choose to feed (especially having considered switching to ff myself and as iwill be when i return to work) but bf is technically more difficult and this coupled with the fact it is no longer the social norm leads me to believe thay bf mothers are more likely to need and seek specific feeding related support. I think this extra support can sometimes be misinterpreted as a specific snub to ff mothers.

Amber, a group for 'ff support' that has members who are delighted to be ff, who never wanted to bf in the first place for whatever reason and who do not believe that there is a health impact of their choice cannot be the same place for support as women who need support because it was not their choice to ff, and who feel upset about it.