Educate me: why would you not want your baby to have the colostrum if no medical reason?

[RainbowsFriend]

Just found out that a couple of my social circle are not attempting breastfeeding second time around, but will be going for bottles from day one. No medical problems/issues, just said it would be easier to have bottles and a toddler than breastfeed.

I didn't want to pry, and I respect their choice of course, but I'm really curious why you would not even express the colostrum to give your child - I thought it was soooo important for the immune system.

I admit I'm a bit biased as I still bfeed DD 22 months, and do use it as a parenting tool to a certain extent. We massively struggled at first as DD had a missed tongue tie that wasn't picked up til 5 months, so I know what it's like to have pain and struggle, and I remember from when our toddlers were little that these mums had to give up fairly quickly first time around and know how difficult it was. But why not express a bit of colostrum?

So please let me know so I can understand better?

So just because you can't see it, it's not offensive?
Ooookay.....

The choice doesnt need to be questioned.

Because that wouldn't be fun, baking addict.
People who start ops like this love the drama these threads - always - cause.
That being so I shall feed the thread no more!
Bye :)

Im ok Badvoc. :) Just getting a bit worn down on MN.

Hiding this now!

Wannabe, where are all these women who look down on others because of how they feed their baby? Are you suggesting women who FF look down on mothers who BF? Because the only post I have sen in this thread where anyone has name called is one where breastfeeding mothers are criticised? The majority of Mums FF, so if you mean the minority of mother's who BF are looking down on mothers who FF, then they're in the very small minority and I've never seen anyone criticise anyone for choosing to FF on mumsnet.

Personally, I've never felt looked down on for my feeding choices whether BF or FF and I've never noticed anyone tell FF mums they shouldn't be doing it in public either....

It doesn't bother me how other people feed their babies but I was at a baby shower once and I whipped out DD's formula to give her a feed. One of the other mum's looked at me and said 'oh you are FF, I've never meet a mum who's FF their baby before. I was too surprised by the audacity of the comment to respond

Maybe they weren't that happy with their choice but were resigned to it anyway, but still don't need guilt tripping?

Can you honestly not see why some people may feel judged by this sort of attitude?

I really think it is ridiculous to pretend the OPs question came from a position of non judgy innocence.

Bakingaddict, I assume that the tone of the comment conveyed some additional meaning as saying that you have never met a mother who FF before doesn't strike me as offensive, it is a simple statement, just like "I have never met a mother who used cloth nappies on her baby before" would be.

Wannabe, where are all these women who look down on others because of how they feed their baby?

It is everywhere.

I've never seen anyone criticise anyone for choosing to FF on mumsnet

Really really?

Search any tread about FF or BF and you will find the above, thats just on MN though, google it, you will find disapproval and judgement all over the net and in RL too.

I agree absolutely with those who have said that we do not see breastfeeding as the norm. FF and BF are given equal weighting and that's wrong. Far too many women end up saying 'I couldn't breastfeed' - when what they are actually describing is a lack of informed support, reasonable maternal expectations and example from peers. I think that we are fundamentally screwed up in what we think about parenting and in our expectations of babies. Up to the moment of birth they are connected to their parent, receiving every need from them. Then post birth their hunger and their need to be held becomes a problem to be fixed. That's why women fail at breastfeeding or won't attempt it - because they fail to understand what their baby needs from them and what being the mother to that newborn baby actually means. I struggled with that with my first too and the thing that kept me breastfeeding was that my mother had done it and so I knew I could. The problem lies very much with how we define maternity. This isn't about a parenting 'choice'. It's about how a 'choice' has been inserted in to a natural process of nurturing and change. There have always needed to be substitute ways to nourish a baby who cannot breastfeed. It's only in the last 80 years or so that subsitution has been normalised and it's for purely commercial reasons that that is the case.

It is a loaded op, all pretend wide-eyed, 'I just don't understand'.

But, medical issues aside, I also can't see why you wouldn't just give it a go and give them colostrum for the first week. I say this as a failed breast feeder of two dc's. even though I beat myself up about stopping both times I would still try again if I had a fourth. The benefits may be 'vanishingly small' (I don't think they are) but so is a week out of your life to give your child the best start.

I realise that I need to balance this with a woman's right to do as she pleases with her body but I just can't understand it.

I will never understand the argument that boobs are for your partner argument - they're not, they were made with little holes for the milk to come out of and everything.

Northern, what a brilliant post.

I think this OP could have been worded better to stop this turning into a fight, perhaps asking why there is so much focus on exclusive breast feeding to six months (which might sound daunting and overwhelming and isn't working very well) and not enough advice saying "do what you can, see what it is like, just start with the first feed..." I think it feels very "all or nothing," and that isn't the best approach for everybody.

FWIW, I was ill after the birth and the midwife managed to milk my colostrum into a syringe without too much trouble and give it to DD. If they can do that for mums who are slipping in and out of consciousness, it can probably be done for all mums. It has to come out somehow, doesn't it, so I don't see why people not BFing can't have the colostrum removed for the baby in this way.

Absolutely Runner, I know nobody that exclusively milk fed to six months, never mind exclusively BF. it should be an 'every little helps' type message.

It's only in the last 80 years or so that subsitution has been normalised and it's for purely commercial reasons that that is the case

I don't think it is for purely commercial reasons at all.

Do you think that the change in womens roles and expectations for women/mothers to work outside of the home has had any bearing on the matter?

I loved having my newborns close to me, I co slept before it was 'fashionable' [got lots of hmms about it from various people at the time too] I structured my life very much around my babies needs, was told I was 'making a rod for my own back' and that I held my baby too much, but I managed to do all of that while FF. That 'style' of parenting is not exclusive to BF Mums.

I enjoyed my babies, but you know the most commonly asked question at the time from various people, but mainly other women?

'When are you going back to work?'

I know some Mums are able to work flexibly, but lots aren't and the need to 'detach' their babies from them to be prepared for childcare settings is surely a factor in how women choose to feed their babies.

I agree with much of your post Northern, but I think the reasons for the swing in attitudes are much more complex than commercial reasons.

I am of course assuming you mean commercial reasons in the sense of the massive amounts of money made from the sale of formula?

Or are you saying commercial reasons as in Mums working outside of the home and generation of income?

I think that the denigration of parenting as a 'valid' role on its own is a big part of it.

Runner - sorry its probably me, but you're not suggesting that a midwife expresses colostrum for women who have chosen not to breastfeed against their wishes.

We are definitely now in the realms of your standard MN BF/FF thread. How dull.

We are now debating the motives of the OP, and there is some disbelief that she could ask the question without deliberately judging.

How about we take what she said at face value? That she 'respects' the choice of her friends to ff from the off, but she is 'curious' not just because she recognises the health effect, but because her own preference is far away from that, and she wants to 'understand better' why someone would not want to 'express a bit of colostrum' (a tacit recognition that for some mothers the actual act of breastfeeding is something they don't want to do).

There is no overt judgement of mothers who ff there - she describes her own 'pain and struggle' not to assert her moral superiority, I don't think, but to illustrate how far away she is in her own preferences from those of her two friends who also had problems. Maybe the OP is 'judging by stealth'; maybe she does really think she is a better mother than her friends. But she does not appear to be, and even if she does think this, she has the manners to keep these ideas to herself, knowing that this is sensitive territory and that she should be mindful of others' feelings. She actually says she wants to support her friends 'better' so she probably believes that understanding and acceptance is a good step towards this.

Not so with a couple of other posters who ff, one of whom has said some pretty disgustingly insulting things about the choice to breastfeed, and added some preposterous and judgemental assumptions about other parenting behaviours that supposedly go with it....and the other of whom has supported her in this because she thinks being insulting and graphic is somehow the same as asking why someone would not express colostrum. The 'insulter' has since apologised - and it does seem to me that the strength of her views are out of all proportion to personal feelings about the right to bf/not bf, and probably spring from some other sensitivities (otherwise why would you be so freakin rude about someone else's choice and make ridiculous generalisations about them?).

I don't agree that it would ever be right for a midwife to express the breasts of an unconscious/ill woman unless the mother had given permission beforehand, or had indicated her wish to breastfeed beforehand. But if she had said she wanted to breastfeed, then the midwife would be enabling her to do so, and I can't see that this would be wrong.

Agree that the OP was entirely disingenuous - judgmental rhetorical question thinly disguised as innocent request for 'education'. OP rather outed her true POV in her 2nd post and I have to say that a lot of those steaming in to defend the OPs honour on this thread clearly are cut from the same cloth as the OP.

As I understand it colostrum is not magic anti illness juice but does give some temporary protection against gastric illnesses. Not the end of the world at all if baba doesn't get it and unlikely to make any difference to any given individual child

But, medical issues aside, I also can't see why you wouldn't just give it a go and give them colostrum for the first week

Because THEY DON'T WANT TO.

Amber - it was primarily the money making side of formula that I mean by 'commercial' but the issues around women working have their place too precisely because ff is so normalised. There's no need for employers to think unduly about the requirements and rights of breastfeeding mothers - although those rights have some legal protection - because the default position of many mothers is that returning to work means substitute feeding. I didn't go back to work till dd3 was 13 months so I didn't have to confront this - she had juice or water during the day and bfed morning and evening then just evenings. I think very few women could say they found their status as a breastfeeding mother considered when making back to work arrangements. I remember asking if I could have the flu jab when breastfeeding (nhs employee) and the nurse had to go and check - she'd never been asked before. That's NHS, loads of female employees of childbearing age and she'd never been asked.

I didn't bf from day one I ff my baby for my own reasons! My DD was born in the winter she was small at birth (under 7lb) and she has had less illnesses than her cousin who was bf for 12 weeks. He constantly catches everything!!! I don't doubt mothers milk etc is best and its wat our bodies were ment to do but I actually don't think it makes a difference it's a personal choice. Wish this wasn't such an issue these days I feel like such a failiure every time a bf mother expresses their "views"

Lynz, you had your own reasons for formula feeding. You are affirmed in these when you see your baby growing up healthy, and you compare her to her cousin who was bf for 12 weeks and who is often ill. This makes you reluctant to believe bf makes a difference to health.

Why would you feel a failure when a bf mother expresses her views?

Why would a bf mother not feel a failure when she reads your views about your baby being healthier than her cousin?

Because as I've found on here and generally ffeeding is frowned upon,y midwife was not allowed to give nd advice on ffeeding before my baby came as its her "job" to reComrnd bf how wrong is that if its sll equal then advice xhould be given on sll sides. im not saying I think bf isn't as good or better or anything. What I was trying to suggest is that my nephew is poorly a lot and was breast fed I think the two have nothing to do with the other hence women should not be swayed by the breast is best for immune systems I think it co insides with a number of things.