Breastfeeding - a contentious rant!

[jenbird]

I may get flamed for this post but here goes:

I am very pro choice when it comes to breastfeeding. I have breastfed all 3 of my babies and I plan on doing the same with this one. However I would never say just because that is my choice it is right for everyone. I understand that different people have different needs and that actually although nutritionally BF may be best if it is making the mother incredibly anxious or miserable then I believe it is not necessarily the best thing for that mother or baby.
What I do hate though is people who say "I just didn't have enough milk" when actually what they mean is "I tried breastfeeding for 2 days, I didn't like it, it didn't work for me and I have decided to bottle feed".
This has happened very recently in my life. A very good friend said she couldn't feed her baby as she didn't have any milk. The reality was that the baby was unsettled a lot and she wasn't sure what to do. Her mother said she "needed" a bottle so she went with that. Her baby is sleeping pretty well at night now and all is fine.
Breastfeeding your first can be really hard work. It hurts, it comes with a huge uncertainty and you seem to spend an inordinate amount of your time feeding but it does have it's rewards too and once you get going it is far easier.
I just hate those flippant comments about not having any milk when actually it is just about choice. Don't devalue the effort I put in just because you didn't want to go down that path.

I obviously can't say this to my friend in RL so I bite my tongue.

Rant over. Hope I don't offend anyone. If I do blame it on crazy lady hormones!

tethersend hehe

Duelling Disagree away. But repeating that you are 'actually' factually correct is not an argument you know. You?ve said that you don?t tell women who ff that they are selfish because there ?would be no point? not because you don?t actually believe that they are selfish. Tell me this ? if I genuinely believe, based on all the evidence, that it does not harm my child to ff or mixed feed, how is my decision selfish? Wrong in your opinion of course, but where exactly does selfishness come into that?

I think it's the perception that formula feeding mothers are able to sleep more and get involved on booze that leads to this selfish thing.

Duelling appreciate what you said bs k there too.

Can anyone explain why a formula feeding mother is actually ( in their eyes ) selfish?

Sioda, I will need to read back to find the bit where I said it was selfish as I can't remember the context but will get back to you when I find it so I can explain what I mean. I can see that I said 'I would never tell a FF feeding mum that they are harming their child BTW' and I do mean this. I don't think it's fair or correct to call Formula feeding harmful unless they mix it wrong when it has the potential to be harmful. I can't quite see where I said it was selfish from what I remember I think I might have agreed with someone who posted that they thought that not even bothering to try to breastfeed just because it's icky and so on was selfish.

I'll get back to you when I find and read it.

Ah - I said "I do agree with whoever said earlier that deciding not to breastfeed your child just because is a selfish act"

the 'just because' may not be clear.

I was agreeing with someone who had said earlier that it was a selfish act because you are putting yourself before what is best for the baby so therefore by definition it's selfish.

Obviously there are many reasons (abuse/pain etc) why a woman might not even try. I DO have a hard time understanding why someone would not breastfeed 'just because'. I don't, as I said, think we should force women into doing it though. I just wish that people hadn't been so influenced over the years to have this 'just because I don't want to' attitude which I believe comes from years of conditioning - as I have outlined in other posts so I won't go on and on about it.

"I think it's the perception that formula feeding mothers are able to sleep more and get involved on booze that leads to this selfish thing."

Yes, God forbid a mother should ever prioritize her needs or even, shock, wants, over avoiding an at most marginal risk to her child. All those mothers prioritizing their desire to go places with their kids in a car instead of walking, cycling or using public transport over a statistically significant and serious risk to them are clearly Selfish Bad Mothers .

Exactly how are they putting themselves first though?

Your not automatically a better less selfish mother because you breastfeed.

Calling other mothers selfish on this one factor alone is bonkers! In my opinion anyway.

There was a lady on the news who went out drinking for a week leaving her baby on her own. Extreme but that's putting yourself first.

Not loving your baby, doing all its feeds in the best way you feel you can for various reasons.

My bfing friends had alcohol long before I did. Anecdotal I know but I just didn't feel like it, and I generally love a drink. I was ffed and 30+ years later my mum still hasn't forgiven me for my lack of sleep! I know perceptions exist generally for a reason but theyre really not givens.

Erm.....
No milk with ds1 ( retained placenta) all that came out was bloody and watery stuff....
Ds2 I had loads of milk but he wanted to feed 16 hours per day and with another ds to care for I just couldn't do it.
Simple really.
If it works it for you, great.
If it doesn't, there if ff.

Ff mothers sleep more????
Hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah (hyTerical laughter)
My ds1 only slept in 40 min snatches days and night for weeks....
Ds2 was better but had 4 ff per night....
So.
No.

Duelling it's not possible to do something 'just because'. It's either an affectation of spontaneity or the person genuinely doesn't know why they did something. Feeling that it's 'icky' is not 'just because...'. Of course that's a result of social conditioning. So is your inappropriate interest in how other women feed their children. So what?

It's kind of you to think 'we' shouldn't force women into doing it. Respect for other people's bodily autonomy should really go without saying.

Putting yourself before what is best for your baby is not inherently selfish. Not all of our decisions as mothers needs to be justified on the basis that it is best for our children. Not allowing your kids to watch any TV might be best for them, but sometimes it might make you feel saner. Never giving them sugar might be best for them but sometimes it might buy you a potty trained baby. No one should have to justify all of their decisions on the basis that it's best for their kids. We are 'allowed' to balance our needs with our childrens and sometimes put our own needs before theirs. Short of neglect or abuse, how other people achieve that balance is no one's business but their own.

and by the way - I do understand that many women will feel about this thread the same way I feel about threads which tell me I should have been able to just breathe my baby out with no pain relief. Shit happens and people don't always get to do what they wanted to do and I totally understand that.

Calling mothers selfish for no other reason than formula feeding is plain wrong to me.

Duelling, apologies for the misquote- punctuation was key to that one, and was reading on a tiny screen

"I just think choosing not to give your child the best thing for it and deciding to give them something else which is not as good for them is a selfish decision."

I agree.

As is:

-Driving them around
-Putting them in a buggy
-Putting them in a cot
-Putting them down so you can eat

Where do you draw the line? Would you feel as strongly about any of these selfish decisions? How many selfish decisions does it take to impact on overall parenting ability?

Well, I disagree. I think 'we' need more people to make it their business to encourage more breastfeeding education and help to increase breastfeeding rates and I think 'we' need more people to be active in the campaign to reverse the damage that formula feeding has done to breastfeeding rates.

I didn't choose with ds1.
I had no milk.
End of.
Even after the horro of ds1s early weeks I decided to try again with ds2.
It didn't work out but for very very different reasons.
I had 2 vaginal deliveries with no pain relief.
Does that make me better than you somehow?
No of course not.
So stop being so silly.

Sorry forgot to add -the 'just because' may also be because they consider their reasons none of your business of course...

"you" really need to stop bandying selfish around too!

I think that a lot if bf advocates become a little insular with the bf groups etc.

Have you spent time with ff fanjo or have any friends that have done so?

There seems to be a real lack of understanding on these threads sometimes.

There are some wonderful parents that formula feed. Would you seriously look them in the eye & call them selfish? Dunno.

just to be "clear" I am not calling all FF feeding mothers "selfish".
I think it's all been "taken" a bit out of "context"...

Not sure why all the "" but I do think this is getting silly now and it's not likely that I am going to be able to explain anymore so apologies for any offence that has been caused through lack of punctuation or the use of the 'selfish' word.

Sorry from A Breastfeeding 'Nazi'

"Have you spent time with ff fanjo or have any friends that have done so?"

yes.

Who's called you a nazi?

Look your not offending me, I know I'm not selfish. I'm just trying to get my point across.

What and do you think they put their needs first?

Curious?

Right I'm off away for the weekend.

Fanjo, maybe we will have to agree to disagree a bit. We do agree on a lot of things.

Bf support is important I just very firmly believe it should be given in the right way to those who want it.