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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Tandem feeding support thread

328 replies

EauRouge · 30/09/2011 10:09

In anticipation of some graduates from the BF and pregnant thread, here's a shiny new thread for tandem feeders to laugh, moan and puzzle over the ins and outs of BF a baby and toddler.

Things are going pretty well for us, we are having a bit of hair-pulling at the moment though. DD2 is 7 mo and loves grabbing hair. DD1 (3 in just over a week!) is not so keen and sometimes wraps her arms around her head.

Another issue is DD1's latch. She's not even close to self-weaning but her latch has been really lazy the last few months. I googled and found this which has been really helpful.

Aside from that, things are brilliant and I'm really glad I'm still BF DD1. It's my one-stop parenting tool for fixing everything Grin

OP posts:
MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 01/11/2011 14:41

reg i'm so sorry to hear it's too late for your friend. How old is her lo? Some women find that once bf is established they continue to make milk even after weaning so it might be possible to get bf back...though pg does affect supply...hmm, maybe some one more knowledgeable knows. I'll shut up! But i did want to say, i don't know weather you intend to tell your friend that the gp was talking rubbish, it'd be understandable if not, but if you do please encourage her to complain. It's the only way to make sure another bf relationship doesn't meet an untimely end.

Mbj so glad re weight' i'm happy with NT. Smile

Msbuggy i'm so sorry to read your story (will follow link for other when i've posted as on phone). You were treated apaulingly. Sad My friend who had poor antenatal care and a (possibly preventable) stillbirth was also 21 at the time. She suspects that had she been older her concerns might have been heeded and perhaps her baby might not have died. Prejudice against young people seems to be acceptable in a way that others are not. Sad

KellyKettle · 02/11/2011 09:20

MrsBuggy your story horrified me. I cannot believe how appallingly you were treated. I am so glad your DD2's birth was much better, it sounds lovely (although snogging and sex noises? I couldn't have my DH hold my hand Grin well done you!).

My DD1s birth story - as concisely as I can:

Labour started with what I thoought was a bloody show but turned out to be an unexplained bleed. Admitted into hospital overnight and then discharged without being seen again the next morning (Thursday). Contractions had started but were manageable. By Saturday I was keeling over with tiredness and pain. Went back to hospital, 1cm dilated, given 2 paracetamol and told to go home for a bath. My mother turned up and pretty much manhandled me through contractions and made it all the more distressing, requesting to stay to "help" me through labour (did I mention I don't like to be touched when I'm giving birth? I certainly did to my mother!).

Admitted to hospital on Sunday night, still 1cm but given pethidine to help me to sleep and have energy for labour. Pethidine did sod all but make me drunk. My plug went with a pop in the early hours but I thought it was my waters. I pressed the buzzer for the mw (only me and one other woman on the AN ward and she was in slow labour so wide awake anyway). MW told me to go to the toilet and check to see if it was my waters. I was so hammered off the pethidine that I couldn't 'remember' how to get out of the bed.

The midwife snapped at me "Can you not just put one foot in front of the other?" and dragged me out of bed by my upper arm. I felt embarrassed and sort of laughed it off like "oh, yes, sorry" but felt like a silly child.

Repeat scenario about an hour later when waters did actually go. MW checking her emails on the computer so highly annoyed that I'd disturbed her again.

Somehow the ward filled up the next day - loads of women and their families, people watching tv, eating. laughing etc while I was labouring away in agony. Felt the urge to push but was checked and was only 5-6cm. I was told they'd closed delivery suite so I'd have to carry on on the shared ward. I just remember being terrified, tired and in pain. At 6pm I finally got a bed on delivery suite. Epidural at about 9pm I think. Fully dilated by midnight but given an hour for DD1 to turn from posterior. Pushed for 2 hours then a registrar chewing gum came in and did a VE without asking, got the mw to put her hands in too to feel the position of DDs head. I obviously couldn't feel anything but it was very humiliating.

Registrar walked out without saying anything and then the MW comes back with scrubs for DH and I am being asked to sign consent for forceps/CS. Didn't really know what I was doing.

In theatre, about a million people standing around watching me have my perineum cut, rotational forceps used to pull out DD and then about an hour of repair afterwards because my episiotomy extended into a 3rd degree tear.

Agony for months, no one actually told me what had happened or to expect a degree of incontinence. No follow up appointment made so when I had an "accident" in a department store I called the hospital and asked for a referral to a colorectal surgeon.

My tear was misclasssified as a 3a when it was actually a 3c/4th (depending which consultant I am talking to). Best opportunity for repair is missed and I am facing a colostomy bag in the long term to make up for the fact that I no longer have a functioning internal anal sphincter.

Surgery at 7 months post partum and again at about 14 months. Surgery at 7 months was to be broadcast to a lecture theatre of colorectal surgeons without my consent - it was only that the anaesthetist mentioned it I think that I found out. Refused to have it filmed, consultant never spoke to me again.

Terrible pain for over a year afterwards, PTSD, no sex life, told I must have a cs, pressured to give up bf to get better myself etc etc. DH and I almost divorced.

I eventually called Sheila Kitzinger's Birth Crisis helpline and sobbed down the phone to a woman there. She was brilliant, listened to me, validated my feelings and gave me so practical advice too.

I then found a homebirth advocate who told me I didn't have to have a CS, gave me confidence to consider another pregnancy. 8 months later I was pg with DD2.

I am still likely to need a colostomy bag in later life (although exciting advances being made in growing new anal sphincters in labs now - sorry if that grosses anyone out). DD2's birth was a risk and I have experienced some pain in my bottom even though I didn't tear again. I guess it was a risk. I see my surgeon again in January. Emotionally, DD2's birth was very healing and I know I would be really struggling now if I had had a cs.

On the subject of tandem feeding, I have decided to night wean DD1. I feel sick about it but I can't see any other solution. I can't face the thought of her feeding 6 times a night for 2 months. I am exhausted after 2.5 weeks. So I am a bit teary today, overcompensating for the weaning plan with treats for DD1.

DH has gone to work in a mood because he was kept awake for an hour last night. How does he think I manage? It's not like I can nap in the day with DD1 bouncing all over me.

Ok, off to see to DD1. Hope you're all ok xx

TheRealMBJ · 02/11/2011 11:07

Oh, msbuggy and kelly Sad

Your stories are horrifying. Angry. Is there any recourse? It's awful that pregnant women could be treated in such a disrespectful manner SadSadAngrySadSad

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 02/11/2011 12:05

kelly that is terrible. What heartless treatment you recieved through out. Angry

Msbuggy it was lovely to read your other story (and i had a poke around, we intend to home ed).

Kelly mbj has night weaned so may be able to offer advice. I hope you get more sleep (i know of people who night weaned but their lo still woke). How are you getting on now your dh is back at work? He needs to pull himself together over the sleep thing.

Mawbroon how did your ds get on at the hospital?

How are you doing mbj?

We're ok here, managed to NT to sleep last night, which was much better, though we're still having late nights.

KellyKettle · 02/11/2011 17:11

Thanks Moon.

DH came home at lunchtime and apologised to DD1 and I. I'm wavering on the night weaning and wondering if I should try and stick out the extra wakings. Daytimes are ok and like you say, it might not guarantee sleep.

I was very upset all morning though, I suppose I want a crystal ball and someone to say "Kelly, it will all be fine by X". It's not knowing if this will carry on for another week or another year that makes it worse.

I have asked DH to sleep upstairs with us when he's not working away. I feel like my body belongs to my DDs and I constantly have one or more of them hanging off me. I miss cuddling DH.

How are things going with you Moon?

KellyKettle · 02/11/2011 17:14

TheRealMBJ I formally complained to the hospital but they rejected my complaint - well most of it - particularly around classification of tear. They said I could have done it myself. Not entirely sure how I could self-inflict a tear to my internal sphincter and not notice but that what they said.....

TheRealMBJ · 02/11/2011 17:21

Angry that doesn't seem right. Not at all. AngryAngry

On the night weaning ... Blush

DS was night weaned in June but since DD's birth that has gone out the window. It is impossible to deny him milk when he wakes and sees DD feeding.

KellyKettle · 02/11/2011 17:39

And how do you find it? Is he waking lots? You seem to be coping better than I am.

TheRealMBJ · 02/11/2011 18:05

I'm only a week in. He's not waking that much but when he does he screams and wants a full feed.

DH hasn't gone back to work yet, and my mum is here to help. I think we'll only know the true extent of the impact when things return to normal.

I must admit to really not enjoying feeding him. It irritates me. A lot. Blush

msbuggywinkle · 02/11/2011 18:10

I night weaned DD1 when DD2 was about 3mths old. Mainly because DD2 slept through and DD1 still didn't!

The way I did it was just to shorten feeds until I was just counting to 5 before unlatching her, at that point she seemed to decide it wasn't worth the hassle and started sleeping through! It took about three weeks, but it was totally stress free for us both.

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 02/11/2011 18:17

kelly that is shocking, can you complain to some higher power?
I know what you mean about them hanging off you, it's pretty intense. But t wont go on for a year kelly, no way! Cause if it does we will all run away from home and form some sort of double amazon commune!
Luckily here dh is still off, he took annual leave as well as paternity. Don't know how we'll do anything when he goes back. The shops will be completely off limits, ds hates the trolly now, and the buggy as ever, so no way of restraining him. Tomorrow is dd's hearing test at 9, and we all have to go as we're going to something else afterwards. I can not believe we will be on time.
I keep being grumpy with poor dh. I can cope with being tired if i eat enough, esp when bf two, but keep forgetting (not like me).

Mbj are you ok with the revoking of night weaning? I think eaurouge went through something similar...or am i confused?

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 02/11/2011 18:27

sorry x post.

Mbj some of ds's feeds are really irritating too. He's rough to the point of violent! Slapping me, biting, pulling hair etc. I try and remember he's a baby and breath deeply and call him a nob under my breath Shock Blush He's so sweet though most of the time.

TheRealMBJ · 02/11/2011 18:49

I know! He is just a baby, and he needs it even though it often (especially a night) drives me insane. I have noticed that since I have given in and accepted the night feeds, not only is my engorgement better (DD is an angel and only wakes for feeds at 11pm/2am/5am) but DS's behaviour has improved immeasurably.

He has suddenly become quite independent and self sufficient.

I know that ultimately this is the right thing but it is hard especially since DH will say in the night, 'This is NEVER going to end', 'We (Hmm HAVE to stop Breastfeeding him'

When I speak to him about it in the morning he understands why I won't consider it but he is not totally won over by my explanations/arguments.

KellyKettle · 02/11/2011 18:55

Oh MrsBuggy that sounds like a better strategy. I have spent the day googling tandem feeding/weaning and it seems that the increased feeding & irritability is quite common. Wish I'd paid more attention to AITF.

Ah, MBJ I think you can get there on time. Can you and DH have a child each? I took DD2 for her test (quite tricky - had to feed her lots to settle her for her test) while DH played with DD1.

DH was all for suing the hospital but I didn't feel like I wanted it hanging over me for years. It was a relief to draw a line under it to be honest. And I think I've made my peace with the idea of deteriorating continence. Well, as much as anyone can really.

EauRouge · 02/11/2011 19:09

My night-weaning story is the same as MBJ's. I was so smug at doing the whole "booby's asleep" spiel with DD1 but I could hardly say that when DD2 was clearly getting booby all night long. I found the night-waking did calm down a bit, the first couple of weeks were hellish (especially the night where I'd taken lactulose and anti-Bs for mastitis whose side effects were... well, I lost about a stone that night) BUT things really did calm down after a little while.

When I night-weaned DD1 she was about 18 months old and it only took 3 nights for her to stop asking for BF, but she still woke up every night the same number of times. So you could consider night-weaning if you want, it might make it easier if she doesn't ask to be BF because then your DH can sort it out but she might still wake up during the night.

OP posts:
MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 02/11/2011 21:45

sorry mbj but lol at your dh apparently bfing your ds! Interesting what you say about his behaviour.

Ds has just gone to sleep. He's been tired since seven, having had several opportunites to go to sleep (dd quiet, sleepily on the boob) and hasn't despite looking like he was going to. Will we ever have an evening again? Sad

TheRealMBJ · 03/11/2011 01:28

Eau, we also night weaned over about 3 days at 18 months and it didn't make a jot of difference to the number of wakings but it did mean I wasn't being dangled from non-stop between 4am and wake up.

DD is amazing though, she only really wakes twice in the night fit feeding, which is NOTHING when comparing with her brother.

EauRouge · 03/11/2011 08:35

My DD2 is a much better sleeper than DD1, apart from last night. Well, it took me over 2 hours to get DD1 to sleep which peaked with me threatening to leave her to sleep on her own :( to which she started crying and replied, "no, I won't like that, I will cry if you leave me on my own" :( :( I felt like the world's worst mother. DD2 slept through all this but started waking every hour from about 1 onwards. I think she's teething again. I finally managed to get her settled on my chest and was just about to drop off when DD1 woke up whimpering "I want booby" after a bad dream (she talks in her sleep).

I am so chuffing knackered now and DH is away visiting his parents because FiL has been in hospital. Am currently drinking a bucket of Lady Grey and hoping for the best Grin

OP posts:
TheRealMBJ · 03/11/2011 08:55

Ah Eau Sad

I was soooooo smug last night. DD had a feed just before bed (21H30) DS woke and had a short feed NT but quickly rolled off and went back to sleep. We slept until 1am when DD woke for a quick poo and feed Grin (DS remained asleep) I woke at 3am and gazed at my two sleeping angels

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 03/11/2011 12:23

oh dear mbj. How are you holding up?

We got to the hearing test with time to spare! Shock would have been a different story with out dh mind.

TheRealMBJ · 05/11/2011 12:38

How are growth spurts? I'm hoping that with the help of a toddler, they'll be a bit easier?

EauRouge · 06/11/2011 09:28

I can't say I noticed during the day but there were a couple of weeks where DD2 fed more at night. I suppose it depends on the baby, but I definitely felt they were easier the second time around.

OP posts:
TheRealMBJ · 08/11/2011 06:07

I am a terrible person Sad

DS is driving me insane! I am slightly worried about DD's intake, she has a poor latch and an upper labial tie (I am having to really concentrate on using the extented latch technique and using breast compressions) so I think she is struggling to access the milk properly. DS will NOT let me feed her on her own at night.

He is getting better at waiting until she is done or having a bit before she has a feed and then leaving me alone but at night if he stirs while I'm feeding her her WILL not lave me alone, he screams until I relent and it means that DD gets pushed to the side and it really doesn't help her latch. She is also a little lazy so when she comes off she doesn't really want to go back unless she is still starving, so I really don't want her disturbed. I have tries the rugby hold but an't get on with it. Sad

I have been shouting at DS and generally disliking him, and now I feel terribly guilty. Sad

TheRealMBJ · 08/11/2011 08:30

Exaggerated latch, even.

EauRouge · 08/11/2011 08:41

Could you get him a new toy to play with for some feeds so you can concentrate on DD? DD1 has one of those books with little magnets in, that keeps her amused for hours. Playdoh is good too. You could just keep it for when you want him to be quiet special occasions so he is excited to play with it.

Don't feel guilty, this is all very normal. Everyone's position in the family has shifted a bit and it'll take a while for you all to get used to it. If you can, try to make things as normal as possible for your DS, did he go to any groups or classes before your DD arrived? Can you get any one-on-one time with him at all? Bath time worked for us, I used to get in with DD1 and she loved it.

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