Sleepless in Newcastle...please help!

[popsycalindisguise]

Technically I suppose this ought to be in sleep but it si so instrinsically tied up with breast feeding that I thought it might be better suited here.

DS2 will be 9 months this week and has not yet slept in his cot for more than a few hours at a time. Actually, he has not ever slept for more than a few hours at a time.

He is fully breastfed and, of course, on solids too now. During the early days, I was persuaded that the easiest way to deal with the 2 hour feeding day and night was co-sleeping and reluctantly brought him into bed with me. Now I cant get him out.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against co-sleeping and night feeding but it is getting ridiculous. FIVE TIMES between 12 and 5 he woke last night. He still wakes for a 10pm feed. Even if I put him in his cot, I wake later and he is in bed with me and I have my top around my neck and can't remember when or how he got in the bed.

DS1 wakes between 5 and 6 most days.

Last night I got 1 hour and 20 minutes sleep.

I know what I can do, but I work full time and dont have the energy to make a stand.

Any advice/support/sympathy may help!

Seriously though.
I need help.

arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggh

Hmmm

We have the settling to sleep on an evening totally and utterly cracked.
I do very little now and he just snoozes off.

Tried water in a sippy cup, water in a bottle....he wants neither. He wants the boob.
He sucks for maybe a minute then rolls over and goes to sleep if he is in bed with me, or pulls off and sleeps if I am holding him.

But he does this roughly 6 times a night. Maybe more.

I keep waking when he is asleep. I should try putting him back in the cot but I don't have the energy.

Tried cold turkey two nights ago and he really really would not settle.

Not sure what to do......

Hmmmmmm....

Have you got time off work over Christmas? Would it be sensible to just keep bringing him into bed until then, and then try the cold turnkey approach again?

Did you get DH to go in to him? And how long did you try leaving him for?

I am off work now until after christmas....long story.....

DH is being a * about the whole thing and is making me very very cross. Am going to assume I am on my own with this one for now and any help he gives will be a bonus.

I just cave in during the night. Bot had more than 2 hours un broken sleep in 9 months. Need to get energy reserves from somewhere.

hi popsy. sorry to hear that the sleep thing is getting so complicated. having dh supporting you would make it easier for everyone. no advice to offer I am afraid. dd doesn't sleep thru either but dh is supportive of whatever I decide to do with her. Some co-sleeping with both of us, some of me moving into the spare bedroom with her, she does, spend at least part of the night in her cot - usually till midnight at least. She routinely falls asleep on the boob as she sleeps badly at nursery and can't help it. At times I let her cry to settle herself but only if the situation starts to get ridiculous like waking every hour. If she cries for 20 mins, 30 max, I pick her up and feed her to sleep. Sometimes just as I am about to go in, she goes off to sleep. Once I sort of cc over a few nights and the longest she cried was 45 mins and settled back and things haven't worsened since. that was about a month ago when she was beginning to wake up as soon as I unlatched her and would cry instead of dropping off.
don't know if this helps. I just try to 'listen' and stay tuned to her needs for food/comfort, without neglecting mine too much.

Jen here in new name (well everyone else is doing it!) For me the lack of energy / reserves just strengthened my resolve to crack it. The post midnight waking was the hardest to sort out. I think it's b/c they are "refreshed" after several hours sleep and have more energy to make demands!

Maybe just focus on changing one thing? Like taking him back to his cot once he has had the milk and is just comfort sucking. Or not bringing him into bed, give him 5 mins each side in his bedroom, then straight back into the cot. Then tune out his protests as best you can and go back to sleep. That way you have met his need for milk/cuddle/attention - but at the same time you are putting a limit around it.

jen - that is the plan i had in mind for tonight.
feed him when he wakes but do it sitting up and straight back into cot......

ok that is the plan
will report back

bet some people are reading and thinking 'why doesnt she just do CC and be done with it!'

popsycal I'm very angry at your DH

Really really not fair on you.

Don't for goodness sake beat yourself up about "caving in during the night". Do what you need to to get through it. In many ways it's easier to tackle when spring is coming and it's not so damn cold in the middle of the night.

CC is weird IMHO! I just don't understand what message it gives the baby and it's so stressful on you. Either you are going to comfort them, or you are not. If you are going to comfort, then PU/PD is good if you are physically and emotionally strong enough. Or a variation - you give enough comfort to meet their immediate need but then you stop. If you are not going to comfort, then cold turkey (after ruling out too hot, too cold, ill, hungry etc.) I think that sends clearer messages than CC. Good luck for tonight!

i haven't read the whole thread but have you investigated the 'no cry sleep solution' for tips? I think it will be pertinent reading for me when I go on hols.

Thnaks again everyone!
I have 'the no cry sleep solution' waiting for me at peckrollover's house....just got to get my act together and go and get it!

Again tonight, he went down beautifully. After initally getting him into cot and having an 30 second play, he lay down and settled so i just stood silently in the doorway. He always gets a little grizzly immediatley before sleep, so I went and patted his arm for 10 seconds, he stopped and went to sleep.

Tipex - I think I will try your method.....
Tonight is the night for getting him in the cot. He stays there most nights until about midnight....after his 10pm waking.

I have heard a couple of different theories about the night feeds.....trying to cut them down progressively, say from 5 mins one night then down to four etc etc, but I think Tipex's theory of giving a full feed makes more sense.

I think I need to get the cot thing sorted before the feeding....maybe that will be better if he is in his cot and not 'grazing' all night!!!!

Wish me luck - and thanks for sticking with me! I just can't CC at this age!

Popsycal, I really feel for you! My DS is pretty rubbish at sleeping but at least DH is supportive - God only knows what I'd do if I were dealing with DS on my own. Just wanted to bear out what Tipex said - I really have found that practically force-feeding DS has helped to extend his sleep - not for long, I have to admit, but at least the trend is now for improvement rather than deterioration (2-3 times a night instead of 4-6). We also moved DS's cot into his own room last Friday (he was 24 weeks and I thought it was safe enough now for him to be more than a foot away from me) and I think that has also, oddly enough, helped. He can't smell the milk when he gets into light sleep and is more likely to go back to sleep rather than shrieking for boob.

HTH

This is another problem. DS2 is 9 months and in our room. But getting him in his own room is a big huge job and it is a box room and ds1 is still in there. To get ds1 out we have to clear and decorate the spare room (read junk room) and this is no mean feat.

Going to have to bite the bullet.

Ok.
SO tonight - I will feed him sitting up. And make sure he has a decent feed.

Will report back tomorrow.

Off to have a stern talk with DH...

Poor you, Popsycal. My DS (age 24 weeks) is also a rubbish sleeper but at least DH is supportive. I think that Tipex has a really good point. I, too, went down the "cut the feeds short" route and got nowhere. I then started practically force-feeding DS, and his sleep has begun to improve. Baby-steps yet, but at least there seems to be a bit of light at the end of the tunnel. I also moved him into his own room last Friday (at 24 weeks, I reckoned the risk must be negligible by now) and that, oddly enough and completely contrary to my expectations, helped. I guess he can't smell my milk when he comes into light sleep!

HTH

Whoops! Thought I'd deleted without posting... sorry! Blame sleep deprivation....

Ok so last night

He slept until 11:40 a first for him
woke up and fed him both sides. Straight back in the cot fast asleep.

Then at some point in the night he was in my bed!
How do I do it? I don't understand how I have no recollection of it!

It was better though!

hee, hee. same here. I was asleep early, like 8pm, and dh brought her to me sometime between 11 pm and midnight. I don't remember feeding her at all but 'discovered' her next to me after 1am. Was a bit frightened at myself for not remembering feeding her or putting her down beside me.

....and dh does not even remember bringing her to bed!

That is just the thing. Dh does not bring ds2 into bed. It is me!It is soooo weird!

Re: no-cry sleep solution. You might want to flick through this: www.pregnancy.org/article.php?sid=462 while waiting to get the book. It explains one of Pantley's major tips for babies who constantly wake up wanting a comfort feed.

oooh thank you hank you
off to read that now!

also this is a nice little article - quicker to read than the book though obviously not as thorough

whoops!

www.pregnancy.org/article.php?sid=1917

OH thank goodeness there are other people wioth the identical problem!!

dont feel quite so useless!
The thing is, he will easily sleep without the boob....does for day time naps and pretty muvch does when falliing asleep on am evening....havent fed him to sleep in weeks
it is just in the night
hmmm