Sleepless in Newcastle...please help!

[popsycalindisguise]

Technically I suppose this ought to be in sleep but it si so instrinsically tied up with breast feeding that I thought it might be better suited here.

DS2 will be 9 months this week and has not yet slept in his cot for more than a few hours at a time. Actually, he has not ever slept for more than a few hours at a time.

He is fully breastfed and, of course, on solids too now. During the early days, I was persuaded that the easiest way to deal with the 2 hour feeding day and night was co-sleeping and reluctantly brought him into bed with me. Now I cant get him out.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against co-sleeping and night feeding but it is getting ridiculous. FIVE TIMES between 12 and 5 he woke last night. He still wakes for a 10pm feed. Even if I put him in his cot, I wake later and he is in bed with me and I have my top around my neck and can't remember when or how he got in the bed.

DS1 wakes between 5 and 6 most days.

Last night I got 1 hour and 20 minutes sleep.

I know what I can do, but I work full time and dont have the energy to make a stand.

Any advice/support/sympathy may help!

Seriously though.
I need help.

well we have had a dreadful few days....ds2 has eczema and an upper respiratry tract infection and has been vomitting non-stop.....

mission on hold

Oh yuk. Wish him better soon!

mission resumed.....
went to sleep in his cot

took an hour this time though....nbit of whinging, lots of bizarre singing from mummy.......bout of giggling and hiccups....
but he is asleep without the magic boobie

ven when he was ill, I didnt feed him to sleep at bedtime but did lie with him on the bed.....

ok.....stage 2 tomorrow night....

any suggestions?

Good luck popsy! You are doing well

Good to hear DS2 is feeling better.

bad night....but he was in bed with me so bareable...

Anyway i have ds1 sorted out
by a process of elimination, i have found out that hunger is what is waking him

he is rubbish with his dinner on an evening....but I have started giving him some cereal and toast just before bed whether or not he eats all his dinner.....
and the last two mornings he has woken at 7:15

right.
tonight is stage 2.
will feed as usual at 10 ish then back in cot
then will not feed again until 3am at earliest.....

i will have an early night

Good luck Popsycal. Have you got DH enlisted to settle him back down again without feeding if he wakes before 3 a.m.?

erm i did have.....but.....
who knows
i am off work at the moment so it is ok

Good luck anyway! You have all - all - my sympathies, fat lot of good that is I know...

ok stage one is well and truely in the bag....

he went to sleep in his cot with almost no help from me tongiht
hey look at the time

That is really good!

Dare I ask how Step 2 went??

Hi! Can I ask how stage 2 went too?
I have been following this thread because I am in a similar situation. I have also conquered phase 1, but not much look with phase 2.....
Am hoping to get strenght from your success!

Hahahahaha
Stage 2 was a complete disaster!!!!

He woke for his feed at abotu 10ish but just would not settle.....he would settle back to sleep in cot as he does at 7pm but within about 15 mins he was awake again.....so I tried him with a little feed..when he stopped sucking we would go through the whole thing again
By midnight I was knackered, ds1 was awake....
so all into bed with the magic boobie......

SO!!!!
Tonight - stage 1.5....

I am going to try to do a real dream feed. That is, I will try to catch him before he wakes and feed him
Lets see how that goes!

Sorry to hear that! It will be better tonight!!

If it is any consolation, I was awake with a baby screaming full volume in my ears from 1Am to 3AM... I didn't feed him until 4Am (after he slept and woke up again) but feel awful!
Everybody tells me he can't be hungry, but I don't know why else would he scream for 2 hours, given he was in bed with us being patted and loved up...

Have you tried a little beaker of water? This works occasionally when ds2 wakes....has a little sip then goes off again....
That is when I don't unconsciously just feed him!

ok....
ds2 just went to sleep with only my 'scratching; technique.....erm...don't ask.

Anyway.
No patting, no shushing, no singing?

So at 9:30 i will get him out of bed and feed him while asleep

If this does not work after a few nights (my aim is to have him settled after this feed) then he will in future get an ounce of expressed milk in a bottle topped up with a fe wounces of water..to get rid of the boobie association
that is phase 1.5

I like your plan!

I've been thinking about the bottle of EBM too. I though that way I could actually see how much he takes - i.e. is it really hunger?! and could water it slowly in hopes to train him to get his fatty milk during the day!

Do report how you get along!

FWIW, we did get went from waking up every two hours to at leats a first big chunk of 5 hours by teaching him to sleep by himself! Hope phase 1 has the same effect on your DS!

We had similar. At around 9-10mts night waking became ridiculous and it was in no way b/c of hunger. It was never at the same times and it was never due to anything obvious. So I would take the path of least resistance i.e. in our bed and on boob. But I often didn't have the energy to take him back to his cot (mistake!) which meant that I didn't sleep. So it all came to a head b/c I just couldn't keep going.

DH was a saint. We agreed that if DS woke during the night, DH would go and settle him with a cuddle/rocking. Step 1 for us was not to feed to sleep anymore and to replace that comfort with cuddles/rocking. We did not offer anything - no bottle (not that he ever took a bottle), no beaker, nothing.

After a few nights of cuddle /rocking him back to sleep, we moved to Step 2. He got a quick cuddle until he was calm then put back into his cot awake and he had to settle himself and DH did not go back in unless DS became hysterical or fussed for longer than 20 minutes. We found it easier to do cold turkey than controlled crying.

Step 3 was to make DS wait at least 5 minutes before going in and giving him the cuddle (still DH doing this) or until his crying really became hysterical. This was key for me to relearn my behavious b/c often he would just fuss for a few seconds and then go back to sleep. I learned that I didn't need to rush in there and put him on the boob.

We got results very quickly and barring sickness/teething, since 11 mts he has slept 7pm to 7am. At the same time, I have been giving him his end of day b/feed before his bath, then we have stories and a beaker of milk (which usually he doesn't want but at least it's there), then we clean teeth, then I turn out the light and give him a cuddle and then he goes into his cot. Sometimes he is straight out, sometimes he fusses for up to 5 minutes, but that's it.

Importantly, I think I have learned to differentiate between fussing and crying. And even when DS is crying I have learned to stand back and listen and assess before just rushing in and offering the boob.

Jen 0 sounds brilliant! I am hoping for similar success....however!!!

Last night!

full of goo dintentions
went in at 9:30, lifted him out of cot still asleep and fed him.
I express on the other side at the same time and got about 1.5oz, so accounting for the fact that is is better than the breast pump, he must have got an absolute maximum of 3oz I guess,

Straight back in the cot. Didn't flinch.....
Waited til about 10:15 and not a squeak out of him so I went to bed. I had read about gently rousing baby before they wake as a way to break habitual waking...

He normally wakes first at around 12:30

So I set my alarm for 12 and planned to gentley wake him to break his sleep cycle then let him go straight back to sleep.

Alarm went off at 12. I jumped out of bed and staggered to the cot. Couldnt find ds2 anywhere! Staggered back to bed and he was already in my bed!!!!!!

DH hadn;t moved him as he was still up!
How on earth can I hope to succeed if I bring him into bed in my sleep!!!!

LOl popsy!

You need to get some sleep! Can you epress enough to leave DP in charge and sleep one night to recharge your batteries?!

If your baby is on Stage 2 of weaning and having 3 solid meals a day and having a pint of milk during the day (about 3 b/feeds), then IMHO hunger is not why they wake up and you shouldn't feed to sleep at all. Yes it's a breast issue, but no it's not a hunger issue.

You can't expect a baby to differentiate that if he wakes up at 10pm it's ok to expect milk but at 3am it's not. Again IMHO, offering watered down formula or EBM is not going to help. It does not break the feed to sleep cycle - you are still offering the opportunity to suck and fill the tummy. Only true Gina Ford followers believe that babies wake up at night b/c they need calories and for no other reason.

Ok, you know your baby better than me and I can understand that you want to make sure it's not hunger. But night waking is just what some babies do. If you are not ok with that, then it's up to you to change the situation. Even if it is hunger, the situation should right itself pretty quickly b/c your baby will eat more during the day (like Gina says ....)

I know those first nights will be tough - so you need to be tough and you need support! Get dad (or grandma? or grandad? a girlfriend?) to go in there and cuddle or rock or do PU/PD or whatever it takes to break the feed to sleep cycle. Plan to get through the worst first nights on Friday night and weekends when dad is around more and it doesn't matter if he misses some sleep at night.

If you have a bad night, just chalk it up to experience and get back on track the next night.

Keep posting - we are here for you. And your baby will be fine!

Thank Jen.
Unfortunately DS is in no hurry to be weaned....
He is a big boy (18lbs + ), but eventhough I've been offering him solids for 5 weeks now, he still barely eats anything....
How's you DS Popsy?

Hi there!
Jen you are totally right and those were my thoughs today after a dreadful night last night.....I must have read your mind!
I texted DH at work this morning and said I was thinking of making ds2 go 'cold turkey'.......

Unfortunately, we have only just sorted out ds1's early waking pattern and he is just starting to benefit from a relly good night's sleep. HE has always been a good sleeper but a ridiculously early waker.

His bedroom is right next to us and ds2....

I am still undecided as to whether to go for the 'cold turkey' programme tonight.
DH is going out so may be in no fit state to help either with ds2 during the night or with ds1 should he wake.

Hmmm.
Any one around with any opinions?

What did you do popsy?

I went cold turkey with my daughter and do recommend it.
However....Ds do does not respond to it very well, he can cry for 2 hours plus non-stop ! But sure worth a try...

Really sympathise with your situation. We're having problems with our DS at the moment and awake constantly at night. He's 4.5 months and last night I fed him a record 8 times. I know that most of the time its for comfort but as I can't be sure and as resolve is low in the middle of the night I just put him on the boob for quickness. Having read your thread I may revise my strategy- not sure how though.
Hope things are improving for you.

Reading this with interest as seeing my future here. Unfortunately, we have very thin walls, not sure could cope with the cold turkey approach. Will keep watching.