Do that many women really not have enough milk????

[Jammers]

I heard another mother today say she stopped breastfeeding because she "didn't have enough milk" and found myself getting really annoyed (in my head - I think I managed to smile sympathetically to the woman).

As I see it, people stop bf for reasons which fall braodly into one of two camps: medical or personal. (And I am simplifying slightly to make the point)

The medical reasons might include: mastitis, absess, repeated thrush, lactose intolerance in baby, very sore nipples, gestational diabetes etc. (I know all of these are surmountable but can make it more difficult to carry on)

The personal reasons might include: not enjoying it, finding it too tying, thinking your breasts should remain sexual, not being able to cope with the night feeds etc. None of these reasons would ever have stopped me from bf, however, at least they are honest and in certain circles it is brave to admit to them.

I feel that "I ran out of milk" is probably a cover for one of the personal reasons but masquerading as a medical reason, therefore inviting sympathy. I just think that if you can't be arsed to spend the time required to bf in the early weeks you should be brave enough to say so.

Am I wrong? Are there really that many women who don't have enough milk? (I now know 5 people claiming this) I'd like to know that my sense of anger is justified or be convinced that these women really have run out of milk.

Urgh...until reading the latest barrage of comments I was feeling a bit insensitive and felt guilty for posting originally without thinking through my comments sufficiently, but it feels everyone is now determined to believe that I am anti formula and judge anyone who cannot bf.

I am not and have never judged people who struggle to bf and I think formula is a very valid choice for many, many reasons.

Taking On Edge's comment - the point I was making was about milk supply NOT flat nipples. Your experience sounds really difficult and I would have no idea what to do about it. In fact I would probably say just use formula so that you and your baby can be happier.

I had already said that I know that some women genuinely have low milk supply and I understand that this is traumatic. My concern is that it is believed to be a far more common problem than I thought it was. If it is a common problem and just undiagnosed, then great, I stand corrected. If, however, it is a problem of poor advice and poor knowledge re the realities of breastfeeding then I think it becomes a duty on all of us to work out how to dispel the myth so that women who want to bf can get the right support. However, no one other than leonie has responded to the point I made in a later post about how to approach this. My point about this being a helpful thread refers to the fact that possibly, someone who has had poor advice/is trying to feed to a four hour schedule and can't understand why it doesn't work/someone who believes that what you express=what the baby gets out may read this and have those myths dispelled. And for anyone with genuine supply issues there is a torrent of support and similar stories.

"On a personal level that's true. on a population level, its a public health issue."

Absolutely agree 100%

"If i had a pound for every time a woman writes / says that she could only get a few drops out with a pump so that meant she has no milk, i could cry. truly.

that is one of the most damaging myths out there. perpetuated by HCPs, usually"

And Leonie that is what makes me angry, unfortunately I didn't engage my brain enough to get that across in the OP.

Jammers and Leonie -

Absolutely right, there is a general lack of knowledge throughout society and there are real problems with HCPs and others giving poor advice.

What's the right response to this? A practical one! Train to be a peer supporter, donate to Unicef, complain about inaccurate information on websites and in books, campaign for local BF support groups. Go and sit with your neighbour who is struggling to BF at 3am.

I have come to think that using MN to 'raise awareness' of these issues is not particularly helpful. There are loads of people here who have really struggled to BF. Telling them that their horrible experience was because of a lack of knowledge will make them feel like shit. What are they supposed to do with this piece of information, exactly??

"Telling them that their horrible experience was because of a lack of knowledge will make them feel like shit. What are they supposed to do with this piece of information, exactly??"

Good point but if you don't tell them that then is there a risk that theycontinue to spread the myths that make bf so difficult. What if they are the friend who is called on at 3am and they repeat the bad advice they were given? I don't want anyone to feel any worse than they clearly already do about anything but given that HCPs don't have a clue and most good advice is through friends or mediums like MN how do you ensure that advice is the best it can be?

But very much agree with the point about becoming peer supporter etc. Reading all these stories has made me feel even more passionately about the issue and believe it or not, I am pretty compassionate and supportive so I may look into how to do this.

I think my friend has read that book - I'm going to order it on amazon now!

I think my friend has read that book - I'm going to order it on amazon now!

If a baby isn't correctly latched on, milk supply fails because the supply and demand breaks down. And given how atrocious support for breastfeeding is in this country, many, many babies fail to latch correctly, fail to thrive, and fail to stimulate maternal supply. So yes, you are being a cretin, even without it being precisely none of your business how other women use their own breasts.

Lobby your local PCT and community health services to go Baby Friendly ... that's the only way to address poor HCP advice.

BF is an incredibly emotive topic and I try not to post stuff on MN that I wouldn't say to someone's face in real life. If you are prepared to tell your friend who has given up BF in misery that actually her supply was probably fine, then good luck to you

well I'm not sure.... I think I did have some problems with supply with ds. When he went through growth spurts my supply seemed not quiet able to catch up. It was ok, but a little harder, took herbs and stuff and gave suplementary bottles ocasioanly. We were refered to a paed for borderline failure to thrive- all quiet traumatic.... I was bloody stubborn though and only gave up when I wanted to. BUT ds was premmie and in surgery/on a drip for a week... I had to pump for the first week which is never going to be the same. My understanding is that frequent feeding in first weeks helps generate lots of ducts/cells (don't exacltly understand the technicalities) and as I missed out on this it was a little harder. No such problems with dd.....

No, you're right, I couldn't tell a friend who had already given up bf that. Is it acceptable to lecture pg friends about cluster feeds/growth spurts/the reality of feeding for an hour or more then starting again 20 minutes later/the many evenings when you think you can't possibly be producing enough milk so they are prepared in advance??? I was told loads about mastitis/sore nipples etc. whilst pg but never about the crazyness of it in the first 6 or so weeks...

And for the avoidance of doubt I am referring to friends who want to bf, if they don't I wouldn't dream of saying anything...

I don't think its ever acceptable to lecture people or offer advice if it hasn't been asked for. In my experience people just label you as a weirdo BF fascist if you are too earnest or dogmatic about these things!

Right, off for now but thanks to those who have broadened my knowledge/views on the subject and apologies again to those I offended in my original post...

I think you are right about it being too upsetting on a personal level, also pointless retrospectively. my Dd is 3, of her "peers" 3 mums' milk "dried up" at c6wks. I am not hugely close to these mums but heard the stories at eg 4 mths when the babies were now fully ff. The only difference in experience seemed to be that I had mn at that crazy time and they did not. I was also going to bfn meetings who were telling me "this is normal". They had mums/sisters saying oh well don't worry you've done well.

Something in b&w needs to be giving new mums the facts, even if they do sound a bit daunting.