seeing thru the breastmilk propaganda

[thegauntlet]

Phew. It is really hard to see any impartial raw advice about the benefits or problems of weaning/ mixed feeding after 6 months.

Gorgeous girl is 5 and a half months, having a couple of teaspoons of baby rice now ( eek!) I am finding breastfeeding increasingly hard; since I had a horrid strep throat last week, and haven't actually slept for more than 4 hours at a stretch since she was born... my milk supply is duff. I am pumping like mad to try to get it better- and trying to get some rest and good food ( sod the diet for the time being!) so... I am thinking ( just thinking.... ) about follow on milk...

I dont want to feel guilty. Because once she has it I cant take it back....

My mum suggested cows milk ( i know!)
Im back to work when she is 7 months.I was planning on pumping.

So.... whats the evidence for the benefits of breast over anything else past 6 months please? ( be impartial.... breastfeeding milliants!)

ooh KAQ was that meant to be helpful to GS who is obviously already feeling bad over the prospect of giving FF? From the link you give most of the summeries with the cited papers state that the risks are compared to not bfing and most don't give the age of the babies. Young babies are going to be at much higher risk anyway and you can't compare mix feeding a 6 month plus infant as having the same risks as a fully ff one. Also this is American and some of it does not apply to the UK where by law infant formula must be nutritionally complete ie have said iron and DHA that this article says is missing from some ffs.
There are also a number of studies you don't bother to quote which suggest risk of anything other than diahreeal (sp?) illnesses is not different. The risk of this is also decreased if you make up the ff properly or use sterile ready made ff.
this review suggests that the link to obesity is questionable and if I wasn't on my iPod and about to head back to bed I'd find more about IQ and other issues that are not so black and White.
We all know that breast is best but there comes a time when all children must be weaned for whatever reason whether that is 5 weeks 5 months or 5 years, every feed gives some benefits and no mum should be made to feel bad when she decides to start weaning by biased and misquoted editing of sometimes less than scientific articles.
GS you've done a fab job and you should not feel any guilt if you have to some ff. If you continue to give some Bf your LO will still get many of the benefits and will be getting more than the majority if infants.

With DS I introduced a bottle of formula just after 6 months, but also continued breastfeeding until he was 13 months.

I did this because I was told it was so important to 'get them to take a bottle'. . Why I didn't question this more, I'll never know.

WHY is it so important to get them to take a bottle? I mean, he was also using a sippy cup, and now I have to wean him off the bloody bottle!

With DD I will just keep breastfeeding, and then when she is 6 months, I will introduce a cup, and never use bottles at all. Far, far simpler.

jandmum - you're right that studies done on babies under 6 mths may have conclusions that cannot be applied to older babies.
However, this is incorrect:

"it does not apply to the UK where by law infant formula must be nutritionally complete ie have said iron and DHA that this article says is missing from some ffs."

Infant formula in the UK is lower in iron than infant formula in the US. DHA is not a legal requirement in formula in the UK, though it is present in many brands, mostly, some would say, as a marketing exercise rather than it being a breakthrough in the quality of infant formula.

but there has to be sufficient iron by legal requirement the article suggested that some American ffs were low iron. My point was not to say that UK ffs are without insufficiencies but that any quoted articles should be given in context particularly when quoting them to people who are obviuously in a hard place like GS.

Yes, jandmum, I agree, context is all. But US formulas, in general, have extra iron added This does not apply to all of them, but mothers in the US are generally advised to go for the 'iron fortified' formula. That's not an option in the UK because there are no 'extra iron' infant formulas on the market. You said UK formulas have to have the extra iron, and they don't. I was
correcting that as a point of information.

I was only going off what my HV told me about them being nutritionally complete and what it says on the tin. On that note I had conflicting advice when I BFed DS past 6 months whether I needed to give a vitamin supplement because of diminished iron stores. I was told this was only necessary if BF ing as FF had it in. Is this not true? If I get past 6 months this time do I need to supplement or not? Thanks for your info Tiktok

'Nutritionally complete' is prob a technical term - they don't need anything else added 'cos it's all there (older-style dried milks years and years ago used to need sugar added).

Iron is not a vitamin but a mineral, and iron needs do start to increase from about six months, which is another reason why six mths is about right for starting solids.

Do you mean Vitamin D supps? Yes, there is added Vit D in formula put in at the processing stage. Bf babies who don't go out in the daylight, or who have dark skin and live at a northern latitude, and who are not getting much Vit D in the rest of their diet, may well benefit from Vit D supps - it's a lifestyle deficiency, really, not a breastmilk deficiency :)

Official guidance is to give Vit D supps to all bf babies over 6 mths, and there is prob no harm in this.

But healthy babies deffo don't need iron supps.

thanks

Haven't read whole thread but what a shitty OP title.

FWIW I don't think it is a shitty title at all, just what many mothers feel every day.

I was very interested to read the BF discussion today esp when someone asked about support for FF. I was interested to read the reply which stated that FF mothers should also get support as to how to hold and talk to their babies when feeding them.

I feel that this is a very important point and one which should be encouraged. Many a time I have seen babies been pushed around in pushchairs with a bottle slopping around in their mouths. FF mother who are in the majority should be taught how to feed their children, in the same way as BF mothers are. Those of us who have mixed fed their children are prob in a minority, but once you have BF even for a bit you learn how to feed a child and read their feeding cues.

'it's a lifestyle deficiency, really, not a breastmilk deficiency'

well put tiktok, love it

Don't think its a bad title at all? As someone who was desperately trying to prepare for combined feeding when I was pregnant, it is almost impossible to find reliable, matter of fact, impartial formula advice that didn't start with the line 'Of course, we all know breast is best'.

As a consequence I tried to exc BF, failed, so after a few weeks (6-8 I think) he was exclusively on formula. Its a shame as I think I could have combined sucsessfully had the advice been out there.

So unfortunately, I am going to make myself (even more ) unpopular and say I am another that I was a bit dissappointed with the militant style of the BF exclusively propoganda :(

???

It might be a bit boring and cliched to say 'of course we all know breast is best' - but militant and propaganda??

I sympathise with your point, toddlerwrangler, about the lack of good information out there about successfully combining breast and bottle. But I'm confused why you would want to prepare for that before giving EBF a try? Mix feeding is the worst of both worlds (I know, I've done it) - why do it if you don't have to?

Gaelicsheep - 1st Baby. In my nieviety I wanted to be prepared for EVERYTHING!!!! :o

Tiktok - I think the works militant and propoganda tend to crop up in my mind because of how forcefully the BF message is rammed home? Not sure if that makes sence, of if I can but it into words.

gaelicsheep i have only skim read so apologies if missing bits or whatever, but just wanted to quickly say that I had terrible misgivings re going back to work etc, went back FT when DD was 9mths, she had been exclusively BF really up until the day I started back.
In the end:

• she tooka bottle no probs (despite never doing so before)
• i couldn't express at work - no suitable breaks - didn't push it which is my fault but couldn't face the fight - so she got cartons of formula (to avoid the whole thing of making it up correctly)
• she really only took one carton per day - night feeds increased significantly (zzzzz) and obviously I fed her whenever I could
• she happily bf exclusively on holidays and weekends

Basically it all worked out, she had minimal amount of formula, which I wasn't 100% happy with but can't see how else things could have worked. I was so surprised at how easily we made the transition in feeding. Good luck!!!

Thanks Caz10. Nice to hear such a positive story about going back to work. Thankfully one thing I don't have to worry about is her taking a bottle. She had at least one bottle a day til she was 3 months, and she recently had a bottle of EBM (nearly my entire freezer "stash", ha ha) with no problems either. I'll try to keep having DH give her the odd bottle until I go back to make sure she doesn't forget.

toddler... don't forget that formula feeders are in the vast majority in this country.

people who breastfeed and give up sooner than they would like to normally do so through lack of support.

how many people do you know who have given up formula feeding because they didn't know how?
formula tins have information on them, bottles have info on- breasts don't!

it's vital that on every single piece of information about formula it states that it is not as good as breastfeeding. i dislike the breast is best slogan anyway. it isn't best. it's normal, but that aside...
there are plenty of women out there who don't even think about breastfeeding. perhaps they've made a very informed decision which is great, but many haven't... many come from backgrounds where FF is the norm, they haven't even considered breastfeeding

if those "of course, breast is best" messages get even a few people to stop and think "hmmm, maybe i'll find a bit more out about that" then that's a good thing isn't it??

really there is no better word to describe the force by which mothers are told to BF. When I was pregnant with DS2 the info from the hospital had a list which had two columns one was the benefits of BF the other was the benefits of FF. The BF side had a massive list of positives, the FF side had none. This to me is totally counter productive, given that most of my peers try to BF. To state that there are NO benefits to FF just alienates mother who try to BF, but then switch to formula.

FF mother need good advice about how to prepare bottles and how to lovingly feed their babies. All the info about feeding your baby is patronising in the extreme and assumes you will BF without any issues.

FF mothers need good solid impartial advice too, and that is sadly lacking.

love "lifestyle deficiency"

there are NHS and WHO leaflets about formula feeding which should be available in hospitals, tho whether or not they are is another question i guess

i have a problem with the word propaganda because it has real negative connotations these days doesn't it? it implies a level of dishonesty or at least omitting facts in order to persuade or mislead people into doing something

breastfeeding IS better for your baby. and it is not misleading to say that.

thisisyesterday - I think toddler's point was about the lack of information about successfully combining breast and formula feeding. Yes we all know this isn't ideal, and probably not even possible from birth in most situations. But I totally agree with her that the information should be out there, because otherwise people will try and they will fail because they don't know how best to preserve their milk supply and don't spot the warning signs.

Having said that, it doesn't bother me that all the information starts "we all know breast is best", because it usually is.

am a bit at that poster tho!

i think more money needs to be injected into hands-on help for new mums rather than ad campaigns

that way those that want to breastfeed would have the assistance they need to do so

Funny...

as much as the poster came across as propaganda to you, can I say that the poster is entirely wrong.

Breastfeeding has no benefits.

Breastfeeding is just normal.

Like how walking is normal.

There are no benefits to getting around on two legs. It is how we are meant to get around.

Agree with Funnys point about giving formula feeders information about preparing bottles and, crucially, how to feed. I witnessed today - for the first time, I have to say - a mother propping a bottle in her baby's pram. I was pretty appalled and had to look away lest my face betray me. When I had to bottle feed it never occurred to me to do anything but cuddle my baby as he fed. I can't understand anyone who doesn't. I guess I've led a sheltered existence.