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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

seeing thru the breastmilk propaganda

209 replies

thegauntlet · 06/11/2010 21:05

Phew. It is really hard to see any impartial raw advice about the benefits or problems of weaning/ mixed feeding after 6 months.

Gorgeous girl is 5 and a half months, having a couple of teaspoons of baby rice now ( eek!) I am finding breastfeeding increasingly hard; since I had a horrid strep throat last week, and haven't actually slept for more than 4 hours at a stretch since she was born... my milk supply is duff. I am pumping like mad to try to get it better- and trying to get some rest and good food ( sod the diet for the time being!) so... I am thinking ( just thinking.... ) about follow on milk...

I dont want to feel guilty. Because once she has it I cant take it back....

My mum suggested cows milk ( i know!)
Im back to work when she is 7 months.I was planning on pumping.

So.... whats the evidence for the benefits of breast over anything else past 6 months please? ( be impartial.... breastfeeding milliants!)

OP posts:
KickArseQueen · 07/11/2010 21:26

Actually gaelic it is more than most women do so quit with the modesty / embarrasment about it. Every b/feeding mum needs a cheer squad, and generally it takes b/feeding without one to realise it. I reckon that for every person who posts on a thread there are probably half a dozen lurkers who may have similar problems but just not feel able to jump in and post.

You posting about your problems and the people who have helped you have probably helped a lot of silent people who are going through something similar.

A long time ago I was on a thread and I was waiting for the op to come back, it was all a bit tense, I was bumping the thread a lot to keep it in active convos and I asked the lurkers to say hi to show the op just how many people were there for her. It was rather surprising just how many there were. :)

So don't be embarrased, just accept that you have done great. Now you have the decision of which option to take and really thats the problem. All the stuff thats gone beforehas just happened and you have struggled. Now you get to choose. Very hard descision.

I'm not going to try to sway you either way. Its your choice.

I know what I did when I had 10 month old dd2 and had to go to work for 1 month from 7am - 8pm every day. I was working on a building site (long story) and had never had any luck expressing with my hand pump or by hand.

Yep, I gave her formula. I still went on to feed her myself until she was 18 months.

If I'd known about the mini medela maybe I'd have done things differently. Dunno.

If I'd been on here I would possibly have asked if anyone had a pump.

Your call, my judgy pants are in the washing pile, Wink

KickArseQueen · 07/11/2010 21:27

sorry long post!!!!Blush

gaelicsheep · 07/11/2010 21:47

Nice post KickArseQueen, thanks. I meant to say earlier that I have been discussing with DH the possibility of him bringing me DD at lunchtime so I can feed her. Perhaps even for some days of the week, and I try to pump the other days. He'll be collecting DS from nursery at lunchtime anyway so he'd be halfway there already. I remembered we'd actually talked about it before a couple of months ago. We may give that a go.

Can I just ask a question? Some people are saying there are still risks, albeit small ones, in giving formula after 6 months. Are we just talking about the same risk as giving dairy products generally, or something different? I will certainly be giving cheese, yoghurt, etc, especially if I'm struggling to get enough breastmilk for her in the daytime. What is different about formula?

FunnysInTheGardenWithASparkler · 07/11/2010 22:14

GS I am sure many people will be here soon to tell you of the health risks of giving formula at 6 months, but I couldn't help notice your pain. You have done a fab job with your children,but from a personal point of view please don't worry about giving your DC formula when you are at work. You need to concentrate on yourself and work now. You have made the hard decision to stop BF, and so you should worry no more about it IMHO.

Going back to work is a huge step in itself, don't make it any more hard by worrying about something which you cannot do.

Enjoy your time at work, safe in the knowledge that your DC's will be with their father. Lucky DC's I say.

KickArseQueen · 07/11/2010 22:24

You're welcome :)
They could be reffering to quite few different things, but you do know that this post is going to be the negatives of ff don't you?? :)

My info is based on american research,

Do you really want to know?

Are you sure??

Preggersplayspop · 07/11/2010 22:30

I don't see it as risks associated with giving formula for some feeds rather than a bf. It's more advantages of bf over formula.

I believe you need to look at things in the round. You've done so well to feed your dd this long, some formula during the day when you go back to work is not going to negate all the benefits you have provided her thus far.

Fwiw, I am still feeding my ds at 3.5 yo and my 11 mo baby, and I go back to work next week. The baby will have formula during the day and I will continue to feed him morning and night and during the day when I don't work. I really don't think I will be disadvantaging him or putting him at 'risk' in any way by doing this.

gaelicsheep · 07/11/2010 22:35

I do, because I want to be informed. She's had it anyway already, which is why I'm puzzled as to what else I could do to her. DS was on formula totally from around 4 years and he's fine. I had assumed that once they're eating dairy and other stuff, formula is just like giving them a highly processed food. Sounds like there's more to it?

Also, how soon could it be that she gets all her nutrients from food with water for drinks and b/f when I'm home. Not at 7 months clearly, but when?

Thanks Funnys - I'm not giving up though Smile. Just debating with myself over that one, possibly two, feeds a day.

KickArseQueen · 07/11/2010 22:36

Unfortunatley preggers there are a couple of risks that have been proven. I'd like to agree with you, would be great if I could, but if I'm asked a straight quesion....

gaelicsheep · 07/11/2010 22:37

from around 4 months.

FunnysInTheGardenWithASparkler · 07/11/2010 22:41

In that case GS there is nothing at all to be worried about. Please don't worry about it at all. Your DC has been given the finest possible start to life.

Enjoy going back to work. Once you are there you will love it, I am sure. I work FT and totally cherish the days at home I have with my DC's.

barkfox · 07/11/2010 22:41

gaelicsheep, I've just sent you a MN message - not done it before, but it should be in your Inbox (if I've done it right).

FunnysInTheGardenWithASparkler · 07/11/2010 22:41

I did think 4 years was quite old to have formula Grin

Preggersplayspop · 07/11/2010 22:42

Well I don't know what these risks are, but there are risks you encounter every day and you have to weigh them up. I'd never leave the house if I wanted to eradicate every risk, and I would definitely never take my baby in a car, but I do. Like I said, I think you need to look at things in the round.

KickArseQueen · 07/11/2010 22:56

x'd posts Preggers hide if you don't want to know, I'm leaving a space. Gaelic, your employer can't expect you to express in the toilet. That is not acceptable. They have to provide you with a clean comfortable place to express and a fridge.

Hi Gaelic,

I don't really want to link this tbh, I don't like stressing people, in theory the more she has and the longer for the higher the risks, there is a new way of making up formula that makes it a particular faff and risky if you do it the old way.

As for how long before she can go without you during the day, I would say as a generalisation, several months at least. My ds is 14 months and has just dropped a feed so he is now morning and night and lunchtime. They are all different tho.

Heres an exerpt:

In a study that analyzed hospitalization patterns for a homogeneous, middle-class, white American population, bottle-fed infants were fourteen times more likely to be hospitalized than breastfed infants." Another researcher concluded that, for every every 1000 bottlefed infants, 77 hospital admissions would result. The comparable figure for breastfed infants was determined to be five hospital admissions (Salisbury L, Blackwell AG: Petition to Alleviate Domestic Infant Formula Misuse and Provide An Informed Infant Feeding Choice. San Francisco:Public Advocates, Inc., 1981, p. 45).

According to Diane Weissinger, International Board Certified Lactation
Consultant and nationally-known speaker on the topic of infant nutrition, "The only advantage that American women who formula-feed tend to have over third world women is better sanitation and medical care -- and that's far from a culture-wide advantage. That in no way alters the long list of ailments to which their bottlefed babies are prone."

The Texas Department of Health's Bureau of Nutrition Services says that
artificially-fed infants in the United States are three to four times more likely to suffer from diarrheal diseases (the number-one killer of
infants worldwide), four times more likely to suffer from meningitis, and
have an eighty percent increase in the risk of lower respiratory infections.

Marsha Walker, in her article, "A Fresh Look at The Risks of Artificial Feeding" published in the Journal of Human Lactation, refers

to research demonstrating that artificially-fed babies see their risk for

moderate to severe rotavirus gastroenteritis increase by five-fold. "Formula feeding is consistently associated with immune system disorders," she states. "Formula feeding accelerates the development of celiac disease, is a risk factor for Crohn's Disease and ulcerative colitis in adulthood, accounts for two to twenty-six percent of childhood-onset insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (and) imposes a five to eight fold risk of developing lymphomas (cancer) in children under fifteen if they were formula-fed."

One of the most startling discoveries concerning artificial feeding is that it appears to increase an infant's risk for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Review reported in 1996 that lack of breastfeeding (artificial feeding), along with exposure to tobacco smoke and a prone sleeping position, is now recognized as one of the only known modifiable risk factors for SIDS. (MMWR 45 (RR-10);1-6).

Not surprising, in light of health risks associated with formula, is the 1995 study by Kaiser-Permanente Health Maintenance Organization in North Carolina finding that,as a group, bottlefed babies' annual health costs averaged over $1400 more per infant than their breastfed counterparts (www.greatstar.com/lois/bfh.html).Unfortunately, even with the excellent medical care available to most American infants who become ill with

formula-related maladies, the infant mortality rate has repeatedly been shown to be higher for U.S. infants who are fed infant formula . Research conducted by the U.S. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences estimated that, for every 1000 infants born in this country each year, four will die because they were artificially fed (Rogan WJ: Cancer From PCBs in Breastmilk? A risk benefit analysis. (Abstract No. 612) Pediatr Res 25:105A, 1989).

Formula tends to be looked on as the norm and b/feeding the "gold top", thats not quite the way it is........

HabbiBOOM · 07/11/2010 23:01

What are the age ranges, though? Is it comparing ff with excl bf, or post-weaning?

FunnysInTheGardenWithASparkler · 07/11/2010 23:04

without wishing to be glib, the 'infants' spoken about are no doubt younger than GS's baby and so more likely to fall ill.

And at risk of spouting circumstantial evidence, both of mine were in the main FF and were and are fine

KittyFoyle · 07/11/2010 23:12

Gauntlet - I know exactly what you mean by 'bf militants'. I received a lot of 'advice' and unsolicited comments from women about the way I was feeding my children. There are many women I would not have a problem described that way.

Most on MN answer your sort of questions trying to help and you did ask for opinions so the ones who don't fit that description might be sensitive about it. Frankly they shouldn't be. It does supporters of bf (of which I am one) no good to pretend there isn't a bullying attitude in some women. If you know you are not 'militant' or 'nazi' in your approach, chill out. If it has struck a chord, change the way you talk about bf. I think most MN threads are supportive but there are some dreadful women in real life and I know I'm not the only one to meet them.

HabbiBOOM · 07/11/2010 23:14

No-one is "Nazi" in their approach to bf. It's a pretty vile analogy.

KickArseQueen · 07/11/2010 23:14

The full page is here

Funnys, I know what you mean about circumstantial evidence, my cousins ff 12 month old little boy is currently in hospital with bronchitis, I've been on the phone hence the gap in my posting. Also unfortunatley with some of the longer term issues its hard to say isn't it?

gaelicsheep · 07/11/2010 23:32

KickArse - thanks for posting. Smile I have to agree with Funnys though that IMO (maybe wishful thinking, I don't know) the problems discussed in the article are mostly referring to babies who are formula fed from birth or soon after. I'm all too aware of the risks of formula feeding as I half killed myself worrying about it when I was unable to b/f DS. Once the gut is sealed though and solids introduced, I dunno. Do you really think it makes that much difference by then, especially if some bm is still given too? It is all about balance in the end isn't it, as you found yourself. Smile

I have PM'd you back barkfox, thank you!

KickArseQueen · 07/11/2010 23:46

It is all about balance Gaelic, I think its one of those situations though where most people will not look into the negatives too deeply. I don't have all the answers, possibly no-one does. Ask Tiktok.

And yes I did it myself and my dd is fine (as far as I can tell! Wink) :)

Everything involving our children we risk assess. I all depends on what risks are acceptable to each individual as to which option we take.

I re-nowned for disliking risks. Blush

If I had to make the same decision now knowing how much milk I can pump in 5 mins with my pump and knowing the formula risks I'd go with the pump. But thats me. I'm freakish about carseats too!

I think its relative to how many risks I took before I had dc's, I've used up my 9 lives iykwim? Grin

KickArseQueen · 07/11/2010 23:49

I wish I could send you my pump, but as ds is dropping off feeds I'm getting blocked on one side, so I'm having to pump, he never did like that side!!!

gaelicsheep · 07/11/2010 23:58
Smile
tiktok · 08/11/2010 00:03

Gaelic, you are not talking about risk to health - at least I don't think you are.

You are talking about the very difficult and saddening, to you, worries about the prospective changes in the way you and your baby relate to each other, and the fact that going back to work signifies a separation and a challenge you don't want to cope with.

I don't think it's appropriate to jolly you along and tell you that your baby will be fine, and say your baby had had a brilliant start blah blah blah - which of course is true but it does not begin to touch the genuine and deep feelings you have about the changes that lie ahead.

Even if someone could hand you a copper-bottomed, gold-plated £1 million guarentee that there would be no hidden or obvious, major or minor, differences to your baby's health, this would not affect the way you feel about things.

Is there someone you can talk about in real life about what breastfeeding means to you and your baby, and get away from the idea that it is just the transference of a particularly handily-available and healthy milk?

gaelicsheep · 08/11/2010 00:22

Thanks Tiktok. You're right that it is complicated for me - I had such difficulties with DS and then with DD, thankfully overcome this time. I thought I had worked through everything and to an extent I have, but I guess the incident earlier today showed me that there are still pent up feelings in there that I need to come to terms with. I think I've had PND to a degree ever since having DS and I think it is all tied up with the issues I had with feeding him.

I've started going to a b/f support group, mostly due to my interest in getting involved in peer support (clearly I need to work through my own feelings first though). I could possibly try to talk to somebody there. Otherwise it's a bit difficult, although my HV has been brilliant and I'm sure she would listen to me. DH, bless him, is probably saturated with it all by now. Smile

I am quite shocked at how I'm feeling actually. I went back to work full time when DS was 5.5 months old - it was really tough but we got through it and he's been fine. I love my job and I truly thought I'd find it easier going back this time. Apparently not so. I am not, in my heart, a WOHM - never have been, never will be. The way I have managed is to put my life in separate compartments, which is why I worry about crossing the boundaries by expressing at work.

Anyhow, thanks for your concern everyone. I'm sure I'll work through it given a bit of time. Smile