seeing thru the breastmilk propaganda

[thegauntlet]

Phew. It is really hard to see any impartial raw advice about the benefits or problems of weaning/ mixed feeding after 6 months.

Gorgeous girl is 5 and a half months, having a couple of teaspoons of baby rice now ( eek!) I am finding breastfeeding increasingly hard; since I had a horrid strep throat last week, and haven't actually slept for more than 4 hours at a stretch since she was born... my milk supply is duff. I am pumping like mad to try to get it better- and trying to get some rest and good food ( sod the diet for the time being!) so... I am thinking ( just thinking.... ) about follow on milk...

I dont want to feel guilty. Because once she has it I cant take it back....

My mum suggested cows milk ( i know!)
Im back to work when she is 7 months.I was planning on pumping.

So.... whats the evidence for the benefits of breast over anything else past 6 months please? ( be impartial.... breastfeeding milliants!)

I have just realised that it is spelt 'militant' not 'milliant' but I also saw the definition 'combative, aggressive, fanatical' ( for my information)

Gauntlet, you can't really be "amazed" at people being riled, and pretty mildly at that, at your choice of words - that's daft. And what's more you have not been judged on this thread at all - ok, you've met some twattish people in real life, which is crap, but it's daft to post as you did in your OP and not expect a reaction.

thegauntlet - please don't be put off. Many people end up committing a faux pas when they first post in this topic. I got a right pasting! It's terrific that you're training as a peer supporter - I want to do so too when another training course comes up.

FWIW, although the choice of words was unfortunate I know exactly where you are coming from. I would refer to such people as "b/f evangelists", or sometimes "born again breastfeeders". People who mean well, but who found it so easy and enjoyable, or perhaps got through so many problems themselves, that they don't realise or forget how others might be feeling.

Hi Gaelicsheep, I can't take the credit for the list :) I just repost it whenever someone is asking this sort of question. The original poster of the list said for anyone to print / repost as would be helpful.

Anyway, AFAIK yes it is in order, and no you do for example:
1 year
Three times less risk of becoming obese by
age six and a lower risk of heart disease as an
adult

That is if fed to 1 year.

The idea of "the list" was to be able to say to a mother look you got up to this point in the list and that is fantastic, wherever the mother had got to on the list she could feel proud of her achievment. To me it also feels like a spur on list to acheive the next goal. I only found this about a year ago, I'm now on month 67 of breastfeeding, I finished tandem feeding 2 months ago back to a singleton, I guess I've got about another 18months to go.

I've also done the peer support training and done quite a bit of support work locally.

Gauntlet, I suggest that you don't run away, but that you stick around and talk to some of the ladies who you can learn from (assuming you want to learn as you are doing peer support training) find out a bit of back history to the whole ff/bf situation. It will help you along with your experiences to help others, without being militant however you want to spell it

Oh right, it reads that way but I was surprised that the relative risks could be pinned down so precisely! I guess there's still a lower risk of obesity when fed to, say, 6 months, just not 3 times lower?

Something like that should be printed on glossy paper with nice artwork and given to every new mother!

I think the different ages on the list just refer to what age children the relevant study was done on :) So a study of obesity in breastfed/non breastfed children specified children who were breastfed until at least 1 year, and found that the children who were breastfed were 3 times less likely to be obsese.

But because they didn't study children who were breastfed to 6 months in that particular study they can't be as specific - it will still reduce the risk if there is causation (and not just correlation) but because the study has not been done, we are not sure by how much.

Hope that makes sense :)

Yes that sounds right o me Bertiebotts.

Lovely idea gaelic, as has unfortunatley been commented before there is very little funding for this type of thing, I was tempted to give a copy to a couple of friendly hv's and see if it could be put up at clincs.... we'll see..

As I said before feel free to print and distribute :)

And yet that is precisely the kind of thing that could be so useful. Daft isn't it? Was it a Mumsnetter wot wrote it?

thegauntlet - the three examples you have given of insensitive and tactless breastfeeding 'support' are just examples of people being insensitive and tactless, like people can be, about just about anything. You won't be aware, if you are new here, that this board has a history of giving good, non-judgmental support and information about bf, for many years now (with occasional lapses when visited by the tactless and the insensitive :) ) . It was a bit insensitive and tactless of you to talk about 'propaganda' and 'militants', before getting the 'feel' of the place first, but you have aplogised (I think!) so you'll know in the future :)

There is plenty of evidence that breastfeeding continues to be the milk drink of choice for the human species - why would its suitability cease at some arbitrary point on the calendar? Why would another animal's milk become better for human infants?

Rest and good food will not help you breastfeed in terms of quality or quantity, by the way. Irrelevant! Both may help your own well-being. Best way to build up a milk supply is to feed the baby more often, though you don't explain why you think you have a problem with supply.

If you feed your baby frequently you won't need to pump.

Hope this helps :)

www.nct.org.uk/info-centre/information/view-53 for NCT's 'reasons to be proud' sheet.

Tiktok - can I just slightly hijack and ask about someone in the OPs or my position, going back to work when DC is around 7 months. Is it possible to NOT have to pump at work but still not use formula? Preferably without baby feeding ALL night long? Is that a completely daft question? (Feel free to say yes, or tell me to start a new thread).

Gaelic, nope :) see link above, Thankyou Tiktok :)

Just looked at the link. I see it's for sale in the NCT Shop. In my humble opinion, that particular sheet should be "prettified", perhaps simplified, and given out free to every new mum - in the Bounty pack perhaps?! (Ever the optimist!)

gaelicsheep - a 7 mth old baby nutritional need is still, majorly, for milk.

I don't think it would be good nutrition for a baby of this age to have only solids and water all day every day...so if he's not getting expressed breastmilk, he's going to need formula, and if he is going to get expressed breastmilk it's going to be hard work to provide it unless you pump at work.

This is for your own comfort as well. If you only express at home, in sufficient quantities to provide your baby with the EBM he needs for the next day, you are going to be full, and possibly very engorged at work.This will in turn impact downwards on your supply.

Not sure if this is the answer you wanted! Your employer is legally obligated to provide you with facilities to continue your choice to breastfeed. AFAIK there is no upper age limit on this.

I'd quite like to see it printed on the 1st page in the red book actually :)

gaelic - yes, it's a good info sheet. In some places it is given out free to mothers because the relevant maternity unit/children's centre has bought it.

NCT is a charity and does not have funds or access to give one out free to everyone. But I agree - people should be aware of the info.

I have only anecdotal evidence with my own dc's but as I have four children my anecdotal evidence is twice as good as that of the average person!

Ds1 and ds2 were both bf till one year.

Ds3 and ds4 both bf for two years and in fact ds3 was bf for eight months after that as well.

Ds1 and ds2 between the ages of one and two caught every tummy bug going in the nursery.
Ds3 and ds4 were never sick at that age at all or very rarely.

ds1 and ds2 both had grommets at 18 months for repeated ear infections. Ds3 and ds4 didn't need them ( Ds3 did end up getting them at 5, though)

I expressed in work for all four and found that the double electric I had for ds3 and ds4 was a godsend.

'Tis the answer I expected. I'm really uncomfortable with asking my employers about expressing facilities, and I can't think for the life of me where they'd suggest. I hate expressing anyway, I don't find it easy at all and I don't like the thought of extending my day when I have a half hour drive each way in any case.

Ho hum. I think I will end up in a compromise situation with formula in the daytime, although I'm not particularly happy about it having managed to ditch the stuff. Thanks.

Hi Gaelic. I'm just back to work and expressing at present. I hate it too but hoping to avoid formula. Dd is now 24 weeks. I'd speak to work now so they have time to get organised. With my older daughter I found I was just bf about 3 times a day with solids by about 9 months so you would only have to pump for about 8 weeks and you could then bf morning and evening and as soon as you get home from work.

Thanks mollycuddles. I dunno, I reckon I should be doing exactly what you suggest. But then I think about the fact that she's had formula already anyway, so I would be going through all that for what exactly? Sure it's a processed foodstuff, and I'm not keen on that, but it's certainly not going to do any harm that's not already been done. I also can't afford to buy, or really even hire, a pump just now - it's a real struggle stretching the mat leave this far.

I'd only have to pump for about 8 weeks, but I guess equally I'd only have to give formula for about 8 weeks... I think I may start a thread actually (yes, another one!) to get different experiences - tomorrow now.

" I also can't afford to buy, or really even hire, a pump just now*....."I'd only have to give formula for about 8 weeks"

If you can afford formula, surely you can afford to hire a pump?

Plus expressing by hand is actually free.....

2 tins of formula is going to be a fair bit cheaper than hiring a pump, or even buying a cheap one to be fair!

personally i would pump anyway myself as i'd rather give breastmilk but i don't think we can use that argument successfully here!

they will NEVER put a list like that in the Bounty pack. Bounty were approached a while ago about making the pack more breastfeeding friendly and declined quite vehemently.

it's a great way for formula and baby food manufacturers to get their name in... advertise bascailly to new mums.
they aren't going to "advertise" something free....

it's worth remembering too that the benefits of breastfeeding increase with every feed iyswim?

so, feeding your baby twice is better than giving one breastfeed and one formula feed.

so the fact that a child has previously had formula does not negate the risks of giving it again.
does that make any sense?

regardless of how much, or little, formula a child has had breastmilk is still better for that child in the future.

it's all down to personal preference tho isn't it. i imagine the risks at this stage are very small and it's just up to each parent to make the choice between extra breastmilk and giving formula instead.

another thing to think about is maybe expressing now and freezing it and building up a supply for when you go back to work so that you don't need to express at work, or at least not so often

Not necessarily thisisyesterday. Our local bfing counsellor put out a call for a breast pump on short term loan for a couple and got inundated with offers of free help. They simply couldn't afford the hire, even at £5 per week.

Also, I bought my Ameda Lactaline for £10 and it worked perfectly.

Think that people are pretty much led to believe that if you bf you must buy lots of expensive equipment which simply isn't true.