OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness

[FunnysInTheGarden]

Most of us are failed BF, but the tone on here recently has really pissed me off. We generally FF? Non? So why the smug shit and the passive aggressiveness towards those who have to/chose to FF?

So tempted to name names, but I won't.

Just stop being so smug and holier than thou please, some people

well come on, that poster sounds like a troll rather than an MNer. the OP might as well hold all of MN responsible for cvq, madamerenard and all the other loons.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, it was 2 seperate posters. I don't agree with the OP but am sharing my experiences.

Anyway, I'm off, I can't see this issue ever being resolved tbh.

oh well, icontrol thinks it was the same poster...

As they were directed at me I think I'd remember - no?

I did see a single poster saying all sorts about ff. But like I said, deleted and I think it was a troll. In fact I'm almost sure it was. I have seen reference to ff babies looking different to bf babies on here on other threads. Wasn't there a comment on a thread about that terrible Claire Verity vs Spock vs AP programme saying something like that. I'm sure I remember something like that on that thread.

I've just trawled the archives for mentions of ff and poison. There are hundreds. Not a single one is a person claiming that ff = poison. Most of them are ffers saying 'it's not poison' and several of them are moans about bfing zealots (rabid bfers came up too, haven't seen that before) and how they all think ff is poison. I repeat, not a single person stating that ff = poison.

Bertie the person saying those things was a twat. There are twattish bfers and twattish ffers. I am ridiculously sensitive about how dd was born and somebody on here once told me I should just be grateful dd was alive and to stop moaning (I can link if you want though her actual comment was deleted and she apologised, the reaction is there though). I have also read the odd comment about the thought processes of people who 'choose' to have a cs. I always assume it says more about them than the facts about medical deliveries. I have to or I'd cry.

I agree - that was my point, although I appreciate how it may have got lost

There are nutters both side of the fence, which could give both bf and ff a bad name.

Everyone is just trying to do their best for their babies, and we all get there however best we can. It's a shame some people just don't respect the choices others make.

It is an absolute shame that those few have to behave in the way they do.

What is quite irksome about this thread is the implication (not from you) that there are a crowd of posters who are constantly calling ff evil, behaving in a smug way, making personal attacks and generally behaving atrociously with some as yet unidentified hidden agenda. For that there is no evidence.

The odd instance of fuckwittery? Yes.

A crusade of hideous BFers? No.

exactly, controlmonkey.

well said ICSM.

the thing i find funny is it is the same posters saying stuff about BFers on most of the FF/BF threads. it is really weird - they say oh there is a group of BFers who always turn up - there are FFers who always turn up too lol.

as someone said, it is probably because people give a shit about how they feed their babies

the problem with the 'respect people's choices' argument is that often, its not really a choice. the woman has got in such a state with it that the only 'choice' to save everybody's sanity is to FF.

people are always saying that they had to FF because of this reason / that reason but then people also say 'well, its my choice...' so you need to respect it. well which is it?

bubbles couldn't agree more. That was meant to be the emphasis of my post. The scientist in me got the better of me in wanting to point out that not all published even peer reviewed ones of this type can be taken as gospel.
I really don't want to get into an argument about it as ut is not helpful. As I said it's an emotive subject hence why it has caused so much upset.

OP you confuse smugness with pride.

Most people that make a particular choice do so thinking it's best and so surely everyone's a little when someone chooses something else. When I saw a woman post birth going outside for a cigarette and giving her baby a bottle I did feel like she was not trying. I can't explain it, I just thought it looked and felt wrong. It's not my intellect but my instinct that makes me feel like that, I hope she didn't notice or care if she did.

here

An excellent systematic review of the health impact of breast / formula feeding in developed countries. This review is held very high in the academic community. They reviewed over 9000 studies.

In short they found that in developed countries breastfeeding was associated with a lower risk of acute otitis media, non-specific gastroenteritis, severe lower respiratory tract infections, atopic dermatitis, asthma (young children), obesity, type 1 and 2 diabetes, childhood leukemia, sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), and necrotizing enterocolitis. For mothers: a reduced risk of type 2 diabetes, breast, and ovarian cancer.

In short that means that formula feeding is associated with greater risk of illness. That is not the same as causing, or a definitive. It just raises the risk. Plenty of breastfed babies will get allergies. Just more formula fed babies will. However that does not by any means mean that all formula fed babies will get allergies or that the risk is really really high.

It is a case of knowing the risks and working out what is best for your family. For many mums this will mean that formula is best when they have weighed up the situation. However it doesnt mean that formula milk is the same as breast milk or breastfeeding is not superior to formula milk - however nothing happens in isolation. A baby may well be better off if his mother is depressed, in pain, resenting him etc. What is sad that there is not better support to enable women to overcome these problems.

You cannot conduct a randomised controlled trial on breastfeeding as we know too much about the benefits to suggest women formula feed. It certainly will never be blind or double blind as I think women would notice whether they are breastfeeding or not (feeding from the breast has advantages over being fed expressed milk.

Most good quality studies do try and control for effects - they will partial out the effect of education, age, background etc. Although it will never be perfect.

Great post....please copy and paste into all further debates on FF/BF.

Perhaps we should have something like it permanently at the top of the board - would save a lot of fuss

peppapighastakenovermylife - Ahhh, exactly. Which is why we should all be encouraged to try bf and see how it goes... AND why we should also be given good info on how to make up formula properly should that become our preferred option.

Yes quite - and I say that as someone very involved in breastfeeding. Its all very well to say breast is best, do it but then there is so little support and so much crap advice.

Funny I am still waiting for you to answer my Mon 20-Sep-10 00:31:34 post.

Sounds like you are accusing me of lying and having a hidden agenda.

It definitely seems to me that you are cross with BFers and with me?

Thanks to all those who have posted nice things on here encouraging me to carry on posting here.

I will carry on (but I am off on my hols so if I disappear for a bit that's why not this thread) .

I bf dd then mixed fed, ff ds1 after disaterous bf and now bf ds2

Most posts on this borad are re:bf as this is where most women need support or have problems.

never come across anyone smug....only 100% helpful.

OP got out of the wrong side of bed or just fancies and argument

Do you know what tabouleh I really don't have the energy to reply to your post. I think I have made my point clear. I will say again. I don't understand why you as a mother of a 2 and a bit year old are so preoccupied with how FF and FF companies go about their business. It just doesn't make sense to me. You spend so much time posting and adding links that I can only conclude that you have some hidden agenda.

No normal tired mother with one or more children would have any where near the time you have to be as evangelical about how formula is made up. Unless they are being paid to do so that is.

Don't know why I bother but... ()

funny actually plenty of people with 1, 2 or even more young children make the time to do something they're passionate about (whatever that may be - and trying to ensure that babies are protected from badly made up formula is wonderful - what a kind thing to be giving up your time to do).

Thank goodness there are people in the world who are preparing to give up their time, despite their having very little of it, to make the world a better and safer place.

My those are some huge judgey pants you are wearing there Funny.

I am a mother of a 5yo and a 2yo. I am very passionate about infant feeding issues and I intend to remain so.

I know two women, one in her fifties and one in her sixties who still welled up with tears when they recounted how poor infant feeding information from their HCPs ruined their breastfeeding relationships. These women still feel passionate about their loss. When I get to their ages, I intend to still be working (on a volunteer basis as I do now) for a woman to have the opportunity to feed her baby safely. that for me is to trust that she wants me give her information. Not infomercials, fluffy polar bears or cows and half-truths.

Blimey. I promised myself I wouldn't comment on this thread (too bonkers) - but having just read Funnys latest post ["I can only conclude you have some hidden agenda..."] - I am HOOTING with laughter. HOOTING.

organiccarrotcake and peppapig, your posts are very sensible and humane. And sane. Well done.

:)

(In all honesty foxy, I was smiling, too. Although sad as well.)