OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness

[FunnysInTheGarden]

Most of us are failed BF, but the tone on here recently has really pissed me off. We generally FF? Non? So why the smug shit and the passive aggressiveness towards those who have to/chose to FF?

So tempted to name names, but I won't.

Just stop being so smug and holier than thou please, some people

Tittybangbang - i totally agree with ur quality of life issue - totally! I love the way my two get so much happiness from bf! My dd gets so excited by bf and so content when she bf's and I do think, like you, that it is a shame that more babies don't get this and after witnessing with both mine how much they love bf, it makes me even more passionate about it!

Well I agree on the gentleness of breastmilk on the stomach which is why looking back I'm happy I managed what I did.
However, my dd has never really enjoyed breast or bottle feeding so I can't really compare them in that way. She was very bashed during the birth and sucking has always irritated her. So I would have had to have found other ways to bond with her anyway :)

good grief! so now my baby isnt going to enjoy babyhood. this is a little far fetched now tbh and illustrates smugness beautifully. How can they miss what they have never had? I am sad about being unable to bf and i will make sure i hold my baby against my skin and make eye contact and think very carefully about formulas,hygene and the best type of bottle to use. I am sure she will feel loved, nutured, safe and nourished and i object to it being suggested otherwise.Bonding and attachment is about far more than how a child is fed.

You are right ledkr, this is getting REALLY silly.

Nobody said that your baby isn't going to enjoy babyhood. All they stated was how much they love bf. Why can't they say that?

Of course there are loads of different ways to bond and I completely agree that attachment is about more than how a child is fed. However, you can't say someone is being smug by making a simple statement about their own child.

"so now my baby isnt going to enjoy babyhood".

I didn't say or imply this. But I can see how it bolsters your argument to falsify what I've said. Why not deal with the actual point rather than making things up to attack? It makes for a more adult and coherent debate.

Well I've never been a failed breastfeeder so clearly my opinion runs the risk of being labelled smuggery smug smugfest but I'll take a swing at it anyway.

How about you let me and every other breastfeeder who wishes to, honestly record their experiences and then you go and make your decision and stand by it - like adult women should? If you want or need to formula feed then go ahead - why should I care? But don't tell me or any other breastfeeding women that we cannot express our opinions or give our recollections.

I am not a failed breast feeder either. I have had a mastectomy! I fed four and loved it but although disappointed do not feel my new baby will be disadvantaged because of it. may I also be allowed that opinion as a fellow adult woman?

Of course you can - why shouldn't you?

Why does it bother some of you on here how another individual feeds their baby? If you want to BF do so, if you don't don't. Why should it concern you what the next person does?

I am not a failed breasfeeder. I CHOSE to ff my babies, in full knowlege of what and why I was doing that.

"do not feel my new baby will be disadvantaged because of it"

I can't understand the logic of what you're saying. Are you saying that there would have been no advantages for your baby had you been able to breastfeed him or her? Why not for your baby when there are advantages for other babies who're breastfed?

"Why does it bother some of you on here how another individual feeds their baby?"

It bothers me that the vast majority of babies in this country are bottle fed in the same way it bothers me that in parts of Brazil there's a 90% caesarean rate. As far as the individual goes it's their choice to have a caesarean section or to bottle feed and I would never argue with or challenge a mother's personal decision. However at a societal level I think these things are regrettable and harmful. In the widest sense, how babies and children are fed is a social health issue, and that's why people like me get so animated about it.

"I CHOSE to ff my babies, in full knowlege of what and why I was doing that."

I personally don't believe that any mother in countries where there are very low rates of continuing breastfeeding is able to make a truly free choice to breastfeed or bottlefeed. All these decisions grow out of our experience of social conditioning as well as our individual mores. If that wasn't the case you'd see homogenous rates of breastfeeding across social classes and age groups.

Do people think that this list is smug?

Okay i haven't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if i offend anyone but..
Women who breastfeed there babies for as long as they can have a right to feel smug - its bloody hard work!
And if anyone gets offended by that then maybe its because they are upset that they couldn't/didn't carry on bf. Surely if you were comfortable with your decision to ff then you wouldn't care about the so-called 'smugness'?

No, they have no right to feel smug. Breastfeeding is hard, yes, but to very different degrees for different women. Some women take to it like ducks to water and for them it's no more difficult than any other part of bringing up a baby. Others find it much much more difficult for all sorts of reasons. With DD I have managed (just about) to keep going in the face of all kinds of problems - so far. With DS, on the other hand, it was simply impossible to continue. I would never presume to judge another woman's decision based on her own very particular circumstances.

OK, I accept that particular piece of "advice" (the one bottle thing) is probably not sanctioned by the Scottish Govt. But honestly the amount of stuff that the health professionals have to cover, regardless whether it's relevant or not, it does seem that their words are not their own. The endless chats about contraception, for example, as if me and DH were a pair of horny teenagers!

tittybangbang...completely agree with your statement...

"As far as the individual goes it's their choice to have a caesarean section or to bottle feed and I would never argue with or challenge a mother's personal decision. However at a societal level I think these things are regrettable and harmful. In the widest sense, how babies and children are fed is a social health issue, and that's why people like me get so animated about it"

I would never challenge a mother's decision to ff - this is personal to them, but it does make me sad that so few babies are breastfed, mostly because of the health benefits that ff babies are missing out on. For me breastfeeding is the most natural thing in the world. Now that I have experience of breastfeeding I want to pass on my experiences to others to help them succeed. I hope that I come across as being supportive and helpful, not smug and judgemental.

Mskalo is right, bf'ing is important and it is brilliant thing to do so why is it so bad that bf'ing mums want to pass on their success stories and try to help others?

OK so in summary 'women who BF have a right to feel smug because it's hard work' ? That to me is the tone of a lot of posts on this thread.

No you don't have the right to feel smug. You just suck it up like you do loads of other things parentwise. You do not have the right to be smug because you BF.

I feel smug because I feed my children home cooked food and take them to swimming lessons........thats not right either is it.

I think that some BF mother have found it such hard work - which it is - that they feel that they are owed one massive pat on the back.

on what level is a mother having a C-Section harmful and regrettable? Total shit IMHO

OP....you dont have to mention names.....I saw someones name on this thread and have chosen not to read any further!!!

However I bf and was not smug I promise!!!!

What do you mean Sparkly?

"on what level is a mother having a C-Section harmful and regrettable? Total shit IMHO"

At a population level, if you have thousands of healthy, low risk mothers having avoidable major surgery to give birth then you will also have avoidable additional deaths, hysterectomies, severe infections and dvts - all of which are more common with c/s. And as many countries in the world (including Brazil) don't have enough obstetricians to meet the needs of its population you'll also have thousands of women who need c/s giving birth without access to the surgery.

BTW - smugness means 'irritatingly and excessively pleased with oneself' - IME someone who's defensive, angry and disappointed about their own bf experience is going quite likely to find any expression of self-satisfaction with breastfeeding irritating and excessive.....

sorry - should read "giving birth without access to the surgery they need to get through labour alive and in reasonable health"

IMO this thread has demonstrated that society plays a major role in the breastfeeding relationship between you and your baby.

UK Society does not in the main, take care of new mums and encourage and support a healthy breastfeeding relationship.

A good support network can help in many ways, such as providing accurate information about breastfeeding

This thread is littered with examples of the opposite, such as:

If you believe that bf is just a matter of hard work , well then you are almost setting yourself up for failure.
Throw some serious advertising you can really see how women have been convinced that breasts are bad for business (to paraphrase Palmer).

The premise of the thread is actually to attack mothers who bf their babies successfully.

Mums are popping on here to assure Funny that if they do BF, that they are not smug?

Evidence based links or posts are ignored by Funny.

Funny that?

I just mean that I have been on a fair few bf/ff threads and the same names crop up and the debate goes the same way and their attitude irritates me! Its all big words and research when everyone already knows the basics and thats all that is necessary!

I had a rough start bfing and the first few weeks were, yes, incredibly "hard work". Did I feel smug? Smug being 'irritatingly and excessively pleased with myself'. Like hell I did. I felt worn out, fraught and worried, worried, worried that he wasn't getting enough.

My son is still bfing at 10 months (with some formula top up - shock, horror!) and it has been a rollercoaster, but God, I don't feel bloody smug about it. I am just relieved that apparently few mothers have difficulties feeding their second.

Also, people who bang on about ff being so outrageously unhealthy are ridiculous. At 20 weeks, my son was not even on the charts he was so light (despite a fuckload of interventions and expressing and exhaustion and feeding every 1 and a half to 2 hours). Hence the introduction of the evil formula which was kept to a minimum until the introduction of solids..

My little man was irate and starving FOR MONTHS on my delicious and nutritious and oh-so-superior breastmilk. He was like a completely different baby once his weight began to go up and my milk supply, rather than drying up, actually increased.. for the first time ever, I could see milk in his mouth, hear him drinking. I look back at how skinny he was and remember how piercing his cry was and, yeah, I think people who bang on about how amazing breastmilk is and the research this and the research that and who make ffing mothers feel like SHIT should be given a sharp kick up the backside. Especially those who did not have a difficult time bfing or whose babies always gained well and enjoyed their milk. You just don't have a clue.

I am so, so glad that I am still feeding him and I have truly, truly loved the experience. I will support any mother who ever asks for it and be far more positive and upbeat than the above might suggest.. but I despise women who sneer at those who ff. I have met a few in real-life, who don't realise that my baby has had formula top ups, see me feeding a ten month old, assume that means they know something about me and rabbit on about how shocking it is that women "choose" to feed their child non-human milk substitutes because they are too selfish/used to ease and comfort in their lives/unable to rise to a challenge to "stick at" breastfeeding.

Total shit. Total and utter shit. And utterly, utterly smug. And vile.