OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness

[FunnysInTheGarden]

Most of us are failed BF, but the tone on here recently has really pissed me off. We generally FF? Non? So why the smug shit and the passive aggressiveness towards those who have to/chose to FF?

So tempted to name names, but I won't.

Just stop being so smug and holier than thou please, some people

"So if you include all baby milk companies who have 'marketing strategies' presumably that means I should not feed my baby formula full stop?"

You have to do what you can cope with. You as an individual mum are not responsible for the unethical behaviour of the baby milk companies.

"the reason I stopped BF and swapped to formula had nothing to do with marketing stratergies"

That's not really how marketing works though is it? It's about creating a climate of belief and expectation around a product. Would you have stopped breastfeeding if you hadn't 100% trusted the product you were going to use to replace your own milk?

And would you have even tried Aptamil unless it had been a very widely advertised and trusted brand? I suspect not.

Funny, I have had people tell me that they didn't bf because it was too restrictive. I have had people tell me that they couldn't breastfeed because they couldn't get their boobs out to feed, and I have people who just say they couldn't do it as it doesn't feel natural to them. Surely these are all example of mothers putting their own needs before their babies? Fromual feeding has become so normal that for many people breastfeeding is just not seen as an option. It is not necessarily their fault.

I am not trying to be controversial when I say this - as I have said, I am not anti-ff at all. Formula does, of course, have its place and is a life saver for some babies. However, there is a culture in the UK which normalises formula feeding and this needs to be challenged.

I truly believe that alot of women who ff could have breastfed. Of course everyone has a choice and it is up to them to choose how to feed their baby, BUT, this doesn't detract from the fact that some poeple do simply choose not to breastfeed.

Mskalo, why do you think that it would be ok to challenge someone in RL about how they feed their baby?

Yes, it's ok to voice our opinions on here and yes it ok to be proactive in promoting breastfeeding, but that doesn't mean that you have to make someone feel like shit.

Promoting breastfeeding should be about encouragement and support, not making formula feeding mums feel like that they are in some way inferior. Thats not what this is about at all.

Haverina - I never said they were inferior - you used that word, not me. All I said was I think if women can bf, they should. What is wrong with me feeling like that?! If you have a problem with the way I feel that is not my problem! You can choose to have your own opinion on bf/ff. I am not telling you that you should feel like me.
I know many many women who have struggled through many problems to bf and I did too, it is hard, hard, hard! I admire those women greatly and I also understand that many women have even more problems and have to or choose to go to formula, I understand that too! But do I roll my eyes when I see women give up (as I have done, a lot) because it is tiring, they want a break etc, yeah I do!

Pommedeterre - don't assume that you know how I would be with people about bf. I have helped many friends through bf and some ff too. I may br honest but I can be tactful depending on the situation! I have am opinion, and in the right circumstances and in the right way, I may air it! It does not mean I will tear strips of people! But I do feel more women (from what I have seen) could make a bit more effort and not resort to formula so easily. And again, I don't mean women who have awful struggles and are at the end of their tether with bf!

Thing is, some women can be quite unpleasant and smug.

And some of those women have babies.

And some of those women breastfeed their babies.

And some of those women formula feed their babies.

But I refer you back to my first statement at all times.

We shouldn't go any lower down the list for reasons as to why - if they are being unhelpfully crass/smug/whatever, we should simply dismiss their opinions, whatever they are, using the first statement. We should, however, make very certain that they ARE being smug and unpleasant and not just, you know, giving that boring old fact-based information, like. After all, you can prove anything you like with facts

I am referencing no person in particular on this thread - and, doubtless, there will be those on this thread who remember me from a while back and think I can be summed up by the first statement.

That is their problem though

'So if you include all baby milk companies who have 'marketing strategies' presumably that means I should not feed my baby formula full stop?'

No, because that's confusing the issue between being anti-formula advertising and anti-formula. I don't know of many people who are anti-formula.

Completely agree with hunkermunker.

I am interested as to how you can tell what reason ff woman has chosen that method, its not as if they wear t shirts saying the reason so how can anyone make that judgement. I do know people who just dont want to bf and never try it and i did say to a fairly skint friend who is due in 2 wks "why dont you try it as its free?" but she doesnt fancy it and thats that. This could be for many reasons i didnt push it but i didnt feel annoyed with her or think she didnt care about her baby.It is probably tru that had she seen more bf in everyday life she may have been inclined to do so herself and that is a point i aggree with but i still see no need for people to interest themselves in what other mums do anymore than you would do if they choose the controlled crying method as opposed to co sleeping for instance.

Having spent a lot of time in a country (Sweden) where breastfeeding is the cultural norm, I have to say one of the nicest things about it is that people are not at all judgmental.

If they do see you giving a bottle (as I occasionally did with ds, who has various problems, though he was mainly breastfed), they just assume that there is some reason for it- just as they would if they saw you taking medicine: they wouldn't immediately start questioning whether you needed it. I found it very soothing.

But of course the reason they can be like that is because breastfeeding is the norm and they don't know that breasts are sexual or disgusting or whatever.

Also aggree about the cultural norm thing. My mum was super bf and i grew up watching her feed then fed 3 of mine till at least a yr then ahd breast cancer at 27 so should be aware of the benefits, HOWEVER i sometimes look twice and feel momentarily surprised when seeing someone bf in public.Gosh i nevr thought of that.

Mskala, if you had read my previous post you would have seen that I agree with you to some extent that alot of women just don't give bf a go. In some respects I think that this is selfish of them. I just don't know what you would gain from challenging someone who has already made their decision. Surely it would be more beneficial to put your energy (and I am not just referring to you MSkalo, I am talking about everyone) into supporting women in the later stages of pregnancy and when their baby is just born to breastfeed.

Ledkr, I look twice when I see people bf in public too. I bf in public all the time, anywhere and everywhere, but I rarely see other women bf'ing. Its quite sad actually.

and really so what if a lot of people choses not to BF for very long? I have heard your arguments over and over, but when it comes down to it BF is a minor part of what we do during a child's life as a parent. Why the massive deal over it.

I reckon there wouldn't be so many having to formula feed if the stuff wasn't cast as the devil's work. If I'd listened to the govt propaganda spouted by my health visitor I'd have given up breastfeeding, as she told me "one bottle undoes all the benefits of breastfeeding". As it turned out, giving one or two bottles of formula a day for 3 months kept me going and now we're exclusively breastfeeding.

Smug, moi? No way, because I've been on the other side of the fence with DS. There but for the grace of God go I.

do you know what GS I totally agree. When faced with the whole 'give one bottle and you're doomed' thing from MW and HV's you sort of give up on the whole thing. When I had DS2 in Feb I gave him a dummy from the start because I knew that if I didn't my nipples would be a mess and I wouldn't be able to feed at all. The stick I got for that was unreal. One MW said 'if you give him a dummy, his 6 month feeding cues will be all shot' I thought 'if I don't give him a dummy there will be NO 6 month feeding cues to worry about'.................

Ffs funny why be so unpleasant - for a number of people here bf is very important - describing the reasons why people bf as fuckwittedness is so unnecessary. On an individual basis yeh whatever suits but on a population basis from a public health perspective it is better in short and long term outcomes if more babies are bf. It's our over stretched nhs we're talking about. Yes there are other important things in parenting terms but a culture of bf would make it easier for those mums who do want to bf. At the moment the culture is focused on ff and I hope it changes in future. And one positive change would be hcps who knew squat about bf. I'm sorry you had bad advice GS - I've heard the absolute opposite from the HV at the bf group I've been to a few times. She recommends dummies and top ups to make life easier and a mum to a 6 weeker was extolling the virtues of rice powder in a bottle of ebm last time.

molly you obv did not read my post. I described the outcome of not BF producing a fuckwitted child.

FFS. And anyway what is wrong with dummies?

"If I'd listened to the govt propaganda spouted by my health visitor I'd have given up breastfeeding, as she told me "one bottle undoes all the benefits of breastfeeding"."

There is no 'government propaganda' that one bottle 'undoes all the benefits of breastfeeding', just a fuck-witted health visitor- yours - misinterpreting the research on the value of exclusive breastfeeding. And in my experience she's vastly outnumbered by the thousands of other HV's who aren't aware that there's any point to exclusively breastfeeding who are currently badgering breastfeeding mums to give supplementary bottles of formula for the flimsiest of reasons.

Hunkermunker made a point about dismissing the opinions of people f they are being unhelpfully crass/smug/whatever.

I think describing the outcome of not BF producing a fuckwitted child falls in the crass category.

What did I say that suggested I have an issue with dummies? I was simply pointing out that one hv says one thing and one says another and musing that it would be nice to have hcps who were consistent and knew what they were talking about. And in your post you said fuckwittedness of those not bf meaning not breastfed and I read it as not breastfeeding. Easy mistake to make as you're not exactly being clear but do keep on

Haverina - I don't think I was challenging those who don't bf, I was saying how I feel about it but if it seemed like that, that was not my intention!
I do help many mothers to be and new mums with bf too and it is great being able to ^do so!

I think it is a shame that FunnysInTheGarden doesn't see the big deal in bf for a good while but that is your choice. I personally see bf-ing for a good while as a major part of both my ds and dd's development, health and our bonding and I don't say that to be smug but to just try and put out there that bf is important and a great thing to ^do if you can

...but if you can't there are other ways to bond with your beautiful baby and.... ... in all liklihood if you and your partner are slim, healthy and intelligent baby will be fine.
...think it's called genetics or...something.
Bf gives baby a great start in life, no denying it but if it's got some wacko genes to overcome baby's still got a fight on its hands.

"Bf gives baby a great start in life, no denying it but if it's got some wacko genes to overcome baby's still got a fight on its hands"

Yes - so why not give your child the very best chance possible of winning it?

But TBH, all this preoccupation with the health benefits of breastfeeding means that the QUALITY OF LIFE issue is getting a bit overlooked. My common sense tells me that breastfeeding is probably massively more pleasurable for babies than bottle feeding. I wouldn't feed my dc's processed food every day now that they're older as their sole diet and I certainly didn't want to do it when they were tiny babies either. I think a baby's infancy should be blissful - all the joy and pleasure sets them up for life. Breastfeeding is part of what make being a baby lovely and I wish more babies had the chance to do it.

I'm not saying you can't bond in other ways, of course you can and loving your baby is the most important thing! Was just saying, for me, the bonding of bf is a great thing, but of course, so are many other ways.