OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness

[FunnysInTheGarden]

Most of us are failed BF, but the tone on here recently has really pissed me off. We generally FF? Non? So why the smug shit and the passive aggressiveness towards those who have to/chose to FF?

So tempted to name names, but I won't.

Just stop being so smug and holier than thou please, some people

MsKalo I can't find anything wrong in what you have said. It's all true. It will wind people up no end, but they can't say it's not true. Lots of women have great difficulties bfing, would love to do it but decide it's better for them and their baby to go another way. But far, far more can't be arsed once they realise the committment and dedication involved.

FWIW I have never met a breastfeeding mother who is smug about the way she is feeding her baby. Generally, don't people just get on with it? It is quite sad though that breastfeeders in this country are not allowed to feel even slightly pleased with themselves, in case they offend someone. In my NCT group I am the only one still bfing and while they chat away about bottles and forumla, they never ask how my feeding is coming on - it's like it's suddenly taboo because they've all stopped.

I wonder how much of the defensiveness shown by some posters here ON THE PART OF FORMULA MANUFACTURERS is to do with their own feelings about being reliant on these organisations for their babies' survival, and how much is to do with 21st century worship and trust of big brands?

I really really don't understand why anyone would want to wave a flag on behalf of companies who make a MASSIVE profit through presenting parents with biased and incomplete information when we are talking about something as important to babies' health as their first food. How on earth can that be right?

OP - how you feed your baby is not about individual moral choices. The fact that only a tiny fraction of babies in this country are fed in the physiologically normal way is a political and cultural issue of real importance, a result of decades of commercial and social pressure placed on mothers, as well as medical mismanagement and misinformation. That's the real scandal.

Distorting the issue by turning it into a bitch-fest about competitive parenting is supremely unhelpful. Please stop it.

"I just can't get my head around why women won't bf if they can when the benefits to their baby is so amazing"

All parents want the best for their babies. But the majority of women in this country don't believe that the benefits of breastfeeding are worth the trouble of overcoming the physical and social problems they encounter with it when their babies are tiny. Mothers believe that formula is both very safe AND very healthy, and why shouldn't they when this belief is so rarely challenged publically?

I agree with Tittybangbang that the real scandal is the small percentage of babies who are bf.

FunnysInTheGarden Wed 22-Sep-10 22:08:14

"And tiktok I am only 'unpleasant' because some replies in this topic warrant it."

FunnysInTheGarden Wed 22-Sep-10 22:08:14:

"I am not anti BF, far from it, I would just like a bit more balance. Just a nod to the fact there are FF on this board too, and we deserve as much respect as BF do."

I think Funny, that it is you who are anti BF otherwise you would not have started this thread. Posters who are offensive do not warrant my respect.

Nope, I don't buy your comment that your unpleasantness is warranted as you started a threat with a title"OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness"

Guess what I get BF, I am BF and I am annoyed at your suggesting that I and others who BF are somehow smug.

There is a mild smugness in general not just on mn. I cannot feed my next one due in jan as i have had a mastectomy and i know i am not alone. I am a bit lost so have asked advice re bottles and formula on mn and in rl and SOME not all people say things like "well i dont know i bf all mine" in asnotty way. Now i am aware that i could be over sensitive but i definately am not wrong all the time. Quote from one mumsnetter "well i wouldnt know as i make my own perfect formula for my baby and its free too" now that is smug is it not?

Ledkr -

Yes I agree that is smug and unhelpful.

When my baby was a month old I had to go to hospital to visit a friend who was very ill with cancer, so I would take my baby.

When I would visit my friend her nurse would ask how I was - and when I said I was tired (young baby, going to and from from hospital) the nurse said - "I have been watching you, you do look tired - you want to get the bottle out to sort out your tiredness, I bottle fed". Every time I saw this nurse she would say, in a smug voice "Have you started baby on the bottle yet?"

My baby fed all the time - I have had a friend invite me over but shush me away to a cold room to bf when her other friends arrived and I heard them all take about me BF.

Have had another so called friend say - your baby needs to bf less often as that is all you are doing.

I have had others tell me what brands of formula to get.

I think they were all unhelpful.

Should have read "I heard them all talk about me BF."

yes i bf 4 and i rememeber with ds 1 My Mumand Aunt all mocking the fact i fed for so long which made me try to change things thus leading to quitting.I had sufferred severe engorgemnet with ds1 and 2 so when had ds 3 had an idea not to feed until the 3rd day which i know is against the advice but i instinctively felt it was right for me. It worked and i didnt get engorged but had to bat off the mw who didnt approve apart from an african who said that african women do the same-dont know if thats true.
It does work both ways for sure. I think we should all be able to tolerate and respect peoples reasons and choices as we have to do all through life in many other ways. But then that is terribly idealistic.

Best of luck with your upcoming arrival Ledkr!

Thanks popcracker-i am seeing soem positives to ff such as dd 8 can get involved and so can dh and i can have a break and also maybe more of a routine than before.

MrsKalo - here fine to say what you think - open forum. If you said that to me in real life I would punch your lights in because it would be RUDE. It would be RUDE of you to suggest that I hadn't tried hard enough to give my dd the best and RUDE of you to think that I didn't know just as much, if not more about the benefits of bf and bm as you did.
So in conculsion, rude. Unnecessary. Meddling. Not wrong in any way, just stupid.
I have seen other girls I know who like me have ended up ff have their confidence with their baby severely knocked because of thoughtless people giving their 'opinion'. This is wrong and unfair.

I suppose MrsKalo I would liken it to going up to a fat person eating and trying to tell them about how dangerous it is to be obese. Would you do that?

wtf has it got to do with anyone else how you feed your baby? People all differ in their parenting choice sand you cant just go around making judgements about it.I know someone whos 4 dcs were all breastfed untill they were quite old and they are now obese as she feeds them so much crap.

ledkr

you are right that everyone has choices, but at the moment our un-informed society and powerful formula companies mean that most people choose to ff, when bf might be better for thier baby.

Yes that is a shame, given the choice i would certainly bf again but i think there is still no need to be judgey and smug especially to people you dont know as there are many things in parenting and in fact life which we do differently and we all get on with it without comment.

Hmm. Am all for getting bf rates up but are we sure it's the fault of 'evil' formula companies? Surely (to hark on with the same example) that is like blaming mcdonald's for obesity and benson and hedges for lung cancer.
We do all have minds...
I feel that the culture aspect in terms of what it is that makes feeding in public feel impossible and the whole no time to feed all day feeling is what needs to change. I just worry it's too hard although Brazil example cited earlier has cheered me up. Next time round I'll be chanelling a Brazilian babe (and hoping for a Brazilian bum too).

Not sure that the anger towards Mskalo is completely warranted. There are alot of women who simply do not want to breastfeed. Of course there are women who try and fail because of lack of support and lack of information. But, alot of women simply chose not to do it. This is because it is no longer the norm to breastfeed. FF is seen as the normal method of feeding babies in the UK. Women are not usually challenged on this.I have spoken to alot of friends and most of them would not breastfeed. Not because of health issues...more "eeegh, theres no way I could breastfeed".

I am not judging people for chosing to FF. For some people it is the only option.

But the culture at the moment is to FF and somthing needs to be done to move away from this as breastfeeding is the best option for babies.

"Hmm. Am all for getting bf rates up but are we sure it's the fault of 'evil' formula companies?"

Actually I think that posters here have talked about 'unethical marketing practices', rather than using morally polarising language like 'evil' to describe the behaviour of baby milk companies.

That said - when you look at the history of formula marketing in developing countries and understand that millions of babies died unnecessarily because of these practices in the 1970's and 1980's, well it's hard to keep words like 'evil' out of the discussion. Especially as the worst offenders refused to change their practices until taken to court, even when the terrible consequences of their commercial strategy was staring them in the face.

If you want to know more have a look here:
here

"Surely (to hark on with the same example) that is like blaming mcdonald's for obesity and benson and hedges for lung cancer.
We do all have minds..."

If eating Mcdonalds for a few weeks made healthy eating really difficult afterwards (just as formula feeding in the early weeks so often leads to the early cessation of breastfeeding), and if McDonalds was doing everything possible to make eating its food on a regular basis seem like a healthy, safe and normal practice, then, well, you would blame them if millions of kids ended up being exclusively fed on burgers wouldn't you?

Pommedeterre - all I said is I think people should bf if they can - why does that make you so aggressive?! And in real life of course there would be a context to what I said and for you to rant and call me names tells me a lot! I am not on about women who genuinely struggle to bf, but those who can't be arsed to, yep I do have a problem with it - and yes, it is my problem! Not theirs!
Ledkr - some of the smugness u have encountered here is shocking and wrong. Best of luck with your lovely new baby c

As for yr query on would I tell a fat person they are obese, it depends on the situation! People have such a problem with honesty! I have been fat and being told to do something about it was a good thing!

tittybangbang - Actually one definition of unethical is 'wrong' as in versus morality, conscience or law. Not that different if we really want to split hairs here.
MsKalo - it makes me so aggressive as I have seen people with your opinion and your apparent willingness to voice it in real life completely strip a young girl of all of her confidence with her beautiful baby boy. Not fair.

Ms Kalo If you know people who 'can't be arsed to BF' then you know some VERY odd people.

TBB Presumably on the basis that BMA object to Nestle (who folk have objected to for years and years) I would be OK feeding my DS2 Aptamil etc? Is it only the ethical side which you have issue with?

Well okay then MsKalo, I have never been fat - so I won't judge you for being a greedy chubber and you don't judge me for my pathetic reasons for giving up bf. You did something about your chub and I'll 'try harder' if I'm lucky enough to have a second child.
Deal?

"TBB Presumably on the basis that BMA object to Nestle (who folk have objected to for years and years) I would be OK feeding my DS2 Aptamil etc? Is it only the ethical side which you have issue with?"

I wouldn't have an issue with you feeding your baby on a Nestle product. This is not about individual choices made by mothers, who are just trying to do their best by their babies; it's about formula companies making conscious economic decisions to undermine breastfeeding - their chief competition - through their marketing strategies. And actually Milupa Aptimel is one of the worst offenders in the UK at doing this.

"Not that different" - sorry, but in terms of tone, there is a world of difference between 'wrong' and 'evil'.

But BMA are pointing the finger at Nestle due to their unethical practices in other parts of the world. So if you include all baby milk companies who have 'marketing strategies' presumably that means I should not feed my baby formula full stop?

Incidentally, the reason I stopped BF and swapped to formula had nothing to do with marketing stratergies, and everything to do with the fact that I wanted to stop BF and needed to find an alternative solution. As it turned out SMA upset my baby whereas Aptamil suited him very well