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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Support for those FF

443 replies

galonthefarm · 16/08/2010 22:28

Not sure if this is the best description for a thread, but basically just somewhere for anyone who is FF who did not set out to do so - to chat to others about it, as there are so many feelings involved (yes, including guilt and also relief!)

My dd (5.5 months) is now exclusively bottle fed, using up supplies of frozen ebm once a day until its gone. She was 5 weeks early and we were advised to top up from the beginning so she put on weight. Now a very chubby 15 lb plus!

There are so many different stories I've heard from friends and on here, and I think it is so important to realise you are not alone in how you feel. I don't get on here much but thought would start the ball rolling! x

OP posts:
Bubbles1066 · 14/09/2010 14:36

I bet rainbow never gives her children medicine either - after all that was invented by drug companies, not for the good of peoples' health but to make a shed load of money.
I haven't heard of Bf'ing mothers having to take vitamin K here though (after the initial shot baby gets when they're born)... they are advised to give baby vitamin drops after 6 months though (A,C and D I think). Formula already has them added.

SkiHorseWonAWean · 14/09/2010 15:13

My baybee sleeps in a cardboard box. Cots are such rip-offs - furniture companies are just out to take your money! Grin

Hazeyjane · 14/09/2010 15:44

Feel a bit sad that a thread intending to be supportive has turned into sniping about breastfeeding. I find that article just depressing really.

It is because I feed/have fed my dcs formula that I think there should be more stringent controls on formula.

organiccarrotcake · 14/09/2010 16:26

No, ski, it's given either as an injection at birth (one off) or orally three times - at birth, at 7 days and at 30 days, each by the midwife. The default is the injection but we chose the oral as we felt it was kinder. Hassle trying to remember to take him for the others though mid massive sleep deprivation!

I was thinking about this thread as I was clearing the drive earlier Grin. There's a huge difference between formula and the formula manufacturers (FM). FM make F to make money. There's a demand - from women who can't BF and from women who choose not to (or not to fully). F as I've said before has saved thousands of lives and freed women who choose that route. FM however have inappropriately marketed their product which has caused babies to die who otherwise wouldn't have done (eg in Africa).

There's nothing wrong with making money or making something if your motive is purely financial gain but marketing it in a way which causes baby deaths is clearly wrong.

In the UK there's a lot of dodgy marketing but nowadays it's much better than it was. Sposie nappy manufacturers do the same in that they have successfully made parents believe that their babies need to be dry at all times to be healthy and happy. While a few babies prefer being dry most aren't bothered and for all but sensitive babies (where sposies may be better) being wet does nothing adverse to the skin. It's been so successful though as a marketing strategy that every parent considering cloth is worried about wetness - yet this is simply a made up feature.

My point is, the product isn't evil, making money on it isn't wrong and marketing it badly is very wrong. Parents should be given all info about FF and BF in an open way without being pushed one way or the other. If the evidence for one of the other is that one or the other is healthier for the baby, it's right to put that across - two options aren't necessarily equal and that's ok - it's still the parents' choice and their personal circumstances may make one choice better for them over another.

And of course not everyone has a choice... in which case who cares whether the manufacturers are making money (and in that situation it's still ok to fight against illegal marketing practises).

My opinion anyway.

cloudydays · 15/09/2010 04:49

Hi all, just saw this thread but wish I'd seen it seven months ago when I was drowning in guilt and shame. When I wasn't feeling guilty that I'd "failed" my dd at my first task as a mother by not being able to breastfeed her, I was feeling deeply ashamed that I'd allowed her to spend her first six days on earth sucking frantically at my empty breasts before ending up in neonatal on a drip :( It was an awful time and like someone else said, I still cry when I think about it.

I will never forget the first time I gave her a bottle of formula, in the neonatal unit. She gulped it down so hungrily I burst into tears with relief, and with regret that I hadn't given it to her three days prior.

Like many others here, I am very pro-bf, and to my shame I nearly starved dd to prove it :( . I live in Ireland which has the lowest bf rate in Europe so I do understand why there's a need to promote it and why pro-bf'ers here feel that moms and babies have been let down so badly in the past by formula being considered the norm.

But I find it very hurtful the way ff is treated as not just second-best food, but a sign of a second-best mom. Like others I hate bottlefeeding in public and find myself trying to justify it to people all the time.

It also drives me batty when I see people talking on other threads about someone else's reason for ff as "not having enough milk", put in quotes implying it can't be true. I know that many moms who worry they don't have milk, actually do, or will soon, and unfortunately it does happen that formula given at that stage can further reduce supply etc. So I know it's important that women know that it's relatively rare to actually not produce milk. But I hate constantly hearing that it's " extremely rare" or seeing people assume that a woman who says she doesn't have enough milk is either lying or misinformed

Like at least three others I counted on this thread, I had zero breast changes during pregnancy, and no change in size/tenderness/engorgement after giving birth. Not after three days, and not after six months. If I squeezed I did get tiny drops but my dd couldn't seem to get anything much from me and even after pumping for an hour with a hospital pump I produced less than half an ounce. Breastfeeding was important to me, and when my breasts almost completely failed to register that I had had a baby, I did all kinds of research, figured out that I probably had hypoplasia (where milk ducts don't mature) and presented my consultant with my hypothesis. He examined me and agreed that this was the issue (this was the point where I finally felt he believed me when I said I had no milk) but said I couldn't be officially diagnosed unless he referred me to a breast specialist. I had a 3 week old baby, a post-natal uterine infection, and the ebf ship had already sailed, so I told him I couldn't face going to see the specialist any time soon. As a result, I'm not going to be counted in any "1%" stats of women who physically can't breastfeed.

I'm sure many moms who don't have milk move onto formula without necessarily seeking an explanation for their inability to bf (because they just want to move on from the failure, or because they're embarrassed, or because it wasn't such a huge deal for them). Add to that the fact that many doctors/midwives/lactation consultants are dismissive of women's knowledge of their own bodies and default to the reassurance record ("oh don't you worry, it will come in, just don't give up") when they should be listening (to the fact that there have been no breast changes, there is no leakage, there are not enough wet nappies), and it's not surprising at all that cases of physical inability to breastfeed go undetected. Then, when the milk still doesn't come and the mother finally listens to her instincts, by the next visit the baby is taking formula, and the health pros can just assume that the mom didn't try hard enough / didn't give it enough time. No diagnosis.

I think it's the diagnosis that's extremely rare, not the condition. And while, again, I know it's important to keep new moms from panicking about supply and remind them that it takes time to establish, all the talk about how very very rare real supply problems can add insult to injury for those of us who experience them. Reading that over and over makes me feel like a bit of a freak, as well as a failure.

Anyway didn't mean to write a book but just wanted to share my experience. I'm really glad this thread is here and will be back, but will try to be more concise!

cloudydays · 15/09/2010 04:50

Oh my God I just saw how long that actually is. Sorry Blush

ClimberChick · 15/09/2010 05:44

Great thread - Some good links in here and some unfortunately not so great stories.

I think there is a misconception that people who FF don't need support as well. There's recognisation that support is needed for feeding of all ages (i.e. solids) so why would FF be any different.

mamaloco · 15/09/2010 06:24

cloudy What a well written post! and true.
I wish the thread was there when I had DD1 almost 6 years ago... I was much more relax with DD2.
Actually, it is between 2 and 5% of mother who can't breastfeed for different physiological (no ducts...) and biological (blood loss....) reasons. Not including deseases (HIV...).
It is not negligeable, in a big town there is probably a 100 birth/day so that's around 5 mothers who can't BF /day. that is a lot. They need to be listen and supported. (those who choose not to shouldn't be shamed either)

I still fail to understand why starving the babies is a good start for BF.
It took 6 days with DD1 to have milk, she was dehydrated and sleepy all the time. Why couldn't I give her a bottle? The staff at the hospital were adament she shouldn't. Then we had to stay longer as DD1 lost too much weight Confused.
I didn't wait that long with DD2, and after sucking both breast for 20 min I would give her a bottle (not for the 1st 2 days though), until my milk came (day 5).
In the past another woman would have fed your baby waiting for your milk to come.

wigglesrock · 15/09/2010 13:18

Cloudy God you're up almost as early as me Grin. Vvvv impressed with your ability to write so meaningfully and eloquently so early in the morning.

cloudydays · 15/09/2010 15:17

mamaloco and wigglesrock thank you for that. Any perceived eloquence is simply the result of many a tearful night spent rehearsing my closing statements for the "good mother" judge and jury in my head :)

wigglesrock · 15/09/2010 16:20

Cloudy you know what the definition of a good mummy is ... one that loves their baby! end of x

ninaandbean · 16/09/2010 09:24

smiles at wiggles too true

cloudydays · 16/09/2010 22:41

:) wiggles thanks, I'm learning that (better late than never) - wish I'd realized it seven months ago, I would have had fewer tears and more sleep!

onceamai · 17/09/2010 20:11

Breast Feeding may be great for some but for the angst it causes for others the infinitesimal benefits aren't worth it. Your children won't remember it. They will remember you loving them and they will remember your spag bol and your best cake and all their other favourites. Anyway it's a tiny part of being a parent and biggest breastfeeding bore I ever met went on to feed her children tinned frankfurters for 27p a tin!!!!

galonthefarm · 01/12/2010 22:12

a bump for anyone wanting to chat.... above all don't feel guilty

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toddlerwrangler · 01/12/2010 22:17

Ahhhh, I have found a home at last, I as etting a bit lonely dipping in and out of the numerous BF threads!

Hello to all the FF mums out there :)

galonthefarm · 01/12/2010 22:22

ahhh bless you - hello!

afraid am logging off in a minute but hoping this is a good place for people to chat who may want to about FF

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JazzieJeff · 02/12/2010 13:44

Hi, wish I'd found this thread a few weeks ago Sad

My DS is 7 weeks old today and is now EFF. During my pregnancy, I was extremely pro-bf and bought all the gizmos going; breast pump, special tops, books, the lot. I also got formula powder, bottles and a steriliser too 'just in case', although I'd already consigned them to the dustbin in my mind. I was so lucky; I had a good birth. But DS just couldn't latch on at all. The midwives were terrible at my hospital; every single feed time I asked and asked them to help me with my latch. Begged, even. We tried every position going, the nurses grabbed my boobs and shoved them into DS's mouth, but he couldn't hold the nipple in his mouth long enough. He gave me blood blisters on my nipples, he was so hungry and desparate to feed. One midwife hand expressed for me. I won't go into anymore details as it still makes me feel sad, but I rang DH from the hospital in tears begging him to bring me a bottle of formula because I couldn't bear to see my innocent baby go hungry, even if the midwives could.

My DH suggested mix feeding, and I hand expressed my colostrum into a feeding cup and syringed it into his mouth. When my milk came in, I used the pump. I had a good supply, but he never seemed satisfied. I am convinced that whilst some women have a good supply, the consistency may not be thick/fatty enough. He would take 8oz of breast milk at 10 days old and cry for more; 2oz of formula was plenty.

The midwife who did my home visit on day 5 was a witch. When I explained I was expressing for him, she actually sneered (I am serious) and said "well that won't last; are you not even bothering to put him to the breast?" she then advised taking to my bed for "a few days", to do skin to skin and get the hang of bf. I was speechless. My DH asked her to leave and not bother returning.

I am lucky to have an extremely supportive DH who recognised that enough was enough and broke it to me gently that the breast milk wasn't enough for our DS and that perhaps we should offer a bottle of formula after the breast milk. I came to the realisation that breast milk, in any form wasn't working fit my DS. We EFF from 2.5 weeks and I never looked back.

I'm constantly shocked by the horrific tales of breast feeding woe on this forum, women who are clearly making them and their babies sad and poorly. I'm shocked by the people who pretty much suggest they try harder, and I'm even more shocked by how no one suggests the mother try a FF for fear of getting flamed. As far as I'm concerned, there are two excellent options for feeding. As long as no one is taking option three, and not actually feeding the child, I don't understand the hoo - ha. Shame on those who feel the need to judge; motherhood is bloody hard work as it is!

toddlerwrangler · 02/12/2010 14:16

JazzieJeff - I am sorry to hear you had such a bad time and such an AWFUL midwife.

The last paragraph is excellently written, and puts into words what I have wnated to say here for sometime, thanks you.

I hope your both doing OK, think I finally stopped crying at 8 weeks and started to enjoy it all a bit more! :o

ninaandbean · 02/12/2010 14:17

hear hear.

HUGS

you are a great mummy Jazzie!!

JazzieJeff · 02/12/2010 14:47

Thankyou toddlerwrangler and ninaandbean Smile

It's good to read everyones stories and realise I'm not making it worse in my head, you know?

I think it's important not to underestimate the incredible hit of hormones bf gives you; for some, it feels like a rush of love. For others though, it can feel like an awful rush of sadness and I found I had the latter. It takes a lot to admit that you milk isn't enough for baby/you don't enjoy bf/it bloody hurts. In an ideal world, this forum wouldn't have to exist! Grin

galonthefarm · 02/12/2010 19:43

JazzieJeff you are a fab mummy for being so worried about your baby. Can't believe the midwife's comments to you!

I remember a assistant on the postnatal ward saying to me (with 5 weeks early jaundiced baby!) "that baby's hungry, so feed her!" whilst I was really struggling with tiredness, shock at having early baby and hormones!! Not very supportive...

I agree with toddlerwrangler your last paragraph is great.

ninaandbean - hope you are well i haven't been on here for ages. I am now dealing with slightly crazy 9 month old who loves her food. After all the stress of bf/ expressing/ making the decision to EFF it is lovely to have a baby who mostly eats the food I make for her!

OP posts:
Scarabeetle · 02/12/2010 20:46

Jazzy, sorry to hear you had such a lousy MW and a rough time in general - agree wholeheartedly with what you say. So glad you're doing well now.

All the best to you and your DS.

FunnysInTheGarden · 03/12/2010 22:25

really glad to see that this thread is up and running again. Sometimes you just don't need to hear 'keep going through this hell, BF is best for your baby, but nevermind anyone else"

I BF both of my two for 6 weeks, and that was truly enough with one thing or another. FF was a revelation, and something I had never considered, but my god it saved our family's sanity.

Good luck JJ, you have made the right decision for you and your family.

FunnysInTheGarden · 03/12/2010 22:28

BTW hello Todds have been following your progress on the numerous anti FF threads of late and admire your fortitude! Well done for keeping the torch of common sense burning!