Support for those FF

[galonthefarm]

Not sure if this is the best description for a thread, but basically just somewhere for anyone who is FF who did not set out to do so - to chat to others about it, as there are so many feelings involved (yes, including guilt and also relief!)

My dd (5.5 months) is now exclusively bottle fed, using up supplies of frozen ebm once a day until its gone. She was 5 weeks early and we were advised to top up from the beginning so she put on weight. Now a very chubby 15 lb plus!

There are so many different stories I've heard from friends and on here, and I think it is so important to realise you are not alone in how you feel. I don't get on here much but thought would start the ball rolling! x

day 2 of not breastfeeding, some guilt (more than yesterday) but know I am doing the right thing.

DS happy too. However he woke 5 times last night, normally 2 - has anyone else experienced this? Maybe its just him adjusting to different feeding after 3 months. i was kind of hoping he may sleep better rather than worse with formula!!

Also one boob in particular is very painful, any tips on how to cope with engorgement.

Nina - so happy you're feeling better about it all! I had much the same conversation with GP and paed when I was FF DS.

same here. My GP told me to formula feed at 6 week appointment (manged 14 weeks in the end). GP said most important bit done in first 48 hours and anything else is a bonus. His wife did 2 weeks.

My HV told me to mix feed from very early on. Although she is the person telling me to wean now at 14 weeks, waiting another 3 at least just incase.

grins cheers my lovelies.

DH was just commenting on how chipper I seem today lol.

pamelat - savoy cabbage leaves, seriously, they do work. Pop one inside your bra, chilled from the fridge. They wind up smelling a bit limp and milky (odd) but it helps! hope you have a better night tonight!

tabouleh, thanks for the great ff links...I am shocked I was never directed to this sort of info on taking my wee premature son home weighing only 4lbs at 9 weeks old and although ebf at the time still had to have ebm in bottles (which incidently they don't sterilise in scbu where i am just hot soapy water, dry off and stored in sealed containers)...due to problems i had to resort to combo feeding and no HV mentioned or checked that i knew how to safely ff...the zealous message of bf is getting in the way of passing on really vital health info regarding ff so thanks.

nina I am so glad you're now getting the support you need and what a lovely GP! Sounds like you've found a great one whose judgement and knowledge you can trust - and he sounds kind - a much underrated attribute!

I must confess, I saw you describing your woes when you were struggling at the beginning and I wanted to scream "bf is not the be-all and end-all" but I was scared to incur the wrath of the bf-ers. :( But all's well that ends well!

The country I'm living in does not follow Tabouleh's rules. I am somewhat sceptical of the WHO/NICE rules as per my earlier statements. The UK are happy to ignore WHO guidelines e.g., re: miscarriage and new pregnancy - so it really fucking pisses me off that I (the Dutch) get lectured about this. Not looking to cause a fight with Tabouleh - just think there's more than one way to skin a cat as it were.

Fair enough skihorse but - I am sorry I am not letting this one go:

"Tabouleh's rules" - they are not my rules.

They are of course guidelines developed by the World Health Organisation, adopted in the UK by the Food Standards Agency and the NHS. Unfortunately there is widespread misunderstanding of what these guidelines are and why they are there.

I am sorry that you feel "fucking pisses me off that I (the Dutch) get lectured about this".

I really have no reason to post on the BF/FF thread. My DS is 2.11 and I will not be having any more DC.

I am here because I care about safer formula feeding and about sharing information (info which is not, as it should be shared by HCPs)and campaigning to make FFing safer.

Everyone is of course free to choose what they do with their own DC.

Why are you so angry about this?

Simply because the last time our paths crossed you tried to make me (and other overseas posters) look like coming from the Karen Matthews schoolof parenting with your patronising.

As I said, the UK/NHS ignores other WHO guidelines - many of which are desperately out of date. e.g., BF "rules" from 70s/80s, often directed at women in Africa - the absolute irony of that is highlighted by a current thread on Relationships about HIV. WHO pushes bf in Africa due to issues with sanitation and cash - yet in parallel suffers shocking HIV rates.

Basically I reserve the right not to be patronised by you - lest I need to start a thread entitled "Support for FF's and those persecuted by Tabouleh".

Can I just quickly ask a question of you FF mothers. I am still BF (with huge difficulty)) and recently made the decision to try mix feeding, but DS wouldn't take formula. Or rather he took a bit, then was consitpated and in agony. Tried again the next day, mixed with EBM and he refused completely.

He'll take EBM in a bottle so not a case of refusing a bottle. I am soo fed up of pumping though and sometimes he just won't bf.

Anyone else had this, any suggestions? the formula was nutriprem 2 because DS was prem and we still have some catch up growth to do

Great thread, wish it had been around 2.6yrs ago when dd1 was born. I managed 2 days with her but just could not get her to latch, dh went out in the small hours to fetch formula and she was ff from then on. Felt enormously guilty though and disappointed we couldn't do it.

Because of this experience I was sure I wouldn't be able to feed dd2 when she arrived, but was prepared to give it a go. Asked for skin to skin at birth to try and get that initial first feed in, but she was born with bowel complications and whisked off to another hospital shortly after birth. After 2 bowel surgeries within her first 3 days I became even more determined to feed. After a week of expressing she was ebf for 12 weeks. I've had to introduce formula top-ups as she has failed to gain sufficient weight over the last few weeks and the hospital were becoming concerned. I have now come to terms with introducing formula but have felt extremely guilty and disappointed that I haven't produced enough milk. At first I felt like the formula would be too harsh for her gut but after seeing how happy and content she's been over the last 5 days I'm pleased I went for it. The 12oz weight gain was also quite reassuring this week too :)

hilda How old is your son? Is the stage 2 appropriate for his age? When you prepare the bottle do you do water first? As an example if you make a 150ml bottle water first it comes to nearly 170ml, if powder first then it comes to 150ml obv. This is a huge difference in the poo stakes! Also in this hot weather I use a little more water - 10ml in a 50ml serving. :)

10ml extra on a 150ml serving I mean.

Using more powder than is needed for the volume of water can be dangerous - especially for new babies.

^"What if my baby seems constipated?
This may be resolved with closer attention to the way in which the feed is made up, since reconstitution errors (i.e. using more powder than is needed for the volume of water) are not uncommon (Renfrew et al 2003). If this doesn?t resolve the problem, the parents could try changing the brand of first milk that they use. Stool hardness is significantly related to the concentration of calcium soaps of unsaturated fatty acids in the stool, which is in turn related to
the specific composition of the milk (see introduction [Bongers 2007, Alarcon 2002, Forsyth 1999, Lloyd 1999]). There is no physiological or research basis for offering extra water to an already well-hydrated baby in order to produce softer or more frequent stools (Young 1998)."^

Taken from here.

Sometimes HCPs recommend additional water but never never less water than per the instructions.

As your DS was prescribed a special formula for pre babies I think you should discuss with your GP/paed before changing the formula.

Hi

he is 24 weeks (13 corrected) and weighs about 13 lb(I try not to obsessabout his weight). So far the formula is all ready prepared.

I will discuss it with the docs but often find I need to know the questions to ask before I do so wondered if anyone had any ideas, or whether it was common for babies to reject one formula but not another. I am clueless about whether that happens and DS is just trying to push me into carrying on bf or some taste better than others so wanted to know what others thought.

hilda I find that while my daughter loves the ready made formua, is does give her darker/harder stools, so I only use it for the middle of the nights feeds. I also give her extra water by giving her about an ounce, twice a day, on its own in the bottle. She was a bit prem - clearly not as much as yours - but is very much thriving on Aptamil 1. We did try the Aptamil Comfort for constipation etc, but it looks like any constipation was really just a result of the changeover from breast milk. Her poo softened after a few days, and she's gradually getting more regular - pretty much daily now as opposed to every 2-3 days a couple of weeks ago.

I know she is thriving because at the docs yesterday she was the biggest next to a 12-week old girl who was born at 6-odd pounds and a fellow eight-weeker (also a girl) who was born at 5lb 2oz, but still looked very skinny, the way mine was at about two weeks. My girl is much more "rounded" and healthy looking. So formula certainly isn't doing her any harm!

I read loads about the different formulas because my girl has acid reflux, and it does appear that some babies react better to one over another. I started with Aptamil because so many mums had switched to it. And the HV I saw last week for a weigh-in seemed happy with that choice when she asked what I was using.

Might well be that your little one needs more time/another formula. Hope you get it sorted.

3rd day of formula feeding - ds still 92% and feeding every 2 to 3 hours whih sounds fine but including at night!! anyone experience of hungry baby formula?

tried it briefly pam but decided every three hours was normal and I didn't want to mess about switching formula anymore, because changes mess with her system. Anyway, after she had settled on the milk (about a week and a half), she also settled into longer sleeps. She eats three-hourly by day, is a greedy girl in the evenings, and then sleeps 5-6 hours from about 9pm, so we have only one night feed now, and that suits me. I say give him time before making any changes to his feed.

I know there are some theories about using hungry formula simply to get more sleep leading to "obese" babies. No idea about the detail, just something I've heard.

pamelat DS is 2-3 hourly at the mo, but starting to eat more in the eve (takes two full feeds before 9pm) and go through for 5ish hours before a night feed at 2-3am, then sleeps til 7am. I'd persevere for a week and see?

am now waiting to hear back from DS dietician.... at the moment the advice is to keep giving him ebm....

I'm breastfeeding at the moment which hasn't been going well.

Tried DS (4 weeks) on formula yesterday which went ok during the day. At night he drank a lot and was very unsettled for 2 hours. I think he fed too fast and ended up with an upset tummy.

Any advice? I'm using TT Anti Colic bottles with NO1 teat.

I'd take him off the bottle after every ounce to wind him, and give him a little break. Helps my DS (5 weeks) to burp often and also slows him down. Stops him from sicking up as dramatically and also seems to help him to work out when he's full. We offer a 5oz bottle but he frequently only takes 3-4oz if given a chance to pause, which seems to be enough during the day, but then again, he does want more sometimes which is why we offer the bigger bottle (pain in the bum to have to go back and make up another oz!). Also, I tried TT bottles and he didn't get on with them so now we're on Avent anti colic, newborn teats, which seem to have also slowed down his feed. Other people swear by Dr Brown's bottles for windy babies but I've not tried them yet... HTH!

Claire My son didn't get on with the TT well at all - it came out far too fast and upset him. We've done very well with Dr. Browns bottles. nina We didn't get on with the Avent one either - very much trial and error isn't it!?

claire The pause after every ounce definitely helps and I do swear by Dr Brown's, but some babies will just be windy I'm afraid. Mine seems to have such an immature system that it lets the air get deep down and it won't come out upwards as a burp. The result is me often winding to no avail, and her having good, big farts about two hours after feeding (longer if she settles into a good sleep). These used to bother her, but she has learned to process them and usually just gets on with it. Though she's a bit whingy with it first thing in the morning.

Why have TT changed the scale on the side of the bottle so it's virtually unreadable? Not good when your pouring a kettle of hot water virtually over your head.