Support for those FF

[galonthefarm]

Not sure if this is the best description for a thread, but basically just somewhere for anyone who is FF who did not set out to do so - to chat to others about it, as there are so many feelings involved (yes, including guilt and also relief!)

My dd (5.5 months) is now exclusively bottle fed, using up supplies of frozen ebm once a day until its gone. She was 5 weeks early and we were advised to top up from the beginning so she put on weight. Now a very chubby 15 lb plus!

There are so many different stories I've heard from friends and on here, and I think it is so important to realise you are not alone in how you feel. I don't get on here much but thought would start the ball rolling! x

My aunt had a baby in Scotland 13 years ago following a bad labour which ended in emergency cs.

She just couldn't work out how to bf - she and baby screaming and crying in hospital.

MW saw she was in distress and after almost 2 days told her she had to ask for a bottle of ff as the HCP weren't allowed to offer!

the 2 hospitals that I had dds and ds, both had baby friendly status. dd1 and ds had formula when they were born because of low blood sugar, and neither would latch on.

with dd1 i had horrendous nipple damage by the 3rd day of my stay, and was offered formula (in a cup) whilst they had a break, and with dd2, he was given formula through his feeding tube whilst my milk came in. on both occasions the hcp discussed all the options available to me.

i think that there is a lot that could be done to improve b'feeding support in hospitals, but i don't think encouraging f'feeding when a mum has expressed a wish to b'feed is the way to do it.

Galon I wish someone had started a thread like this when I failed at BF not once but twice!!!

DS1 would not latch on for dear life and due to the MW breaking my placenta we were not given the skin to skin from birth as I was whisked off to theatre. To top that off we had an infection during labour/birth and he was born w/a condition called hypospadia (urethra opening in wrong place) so the paed gave DS1 formula to hydrate him asap to see if the urethra was functioning properly while I was in recovery. It took 6 days for him to latch and I paid someone privately to come over to help. 6 days of tears, pumping every 3 hours and syringe feeding a newborn. I was all over the place. Then we both got a severe case of thrush due to antibiotics given to clear our infection. I was devastated and felt ashamed. I ended up BF followed by mix feeding up to 19 weeks. It was all too much for me. I did feel a sense of relief once he hit the 6 month mark and started solids when we were out and about bottle feeding. So many people move in to FF at 6m that I didn't feel embarrassed about my fully FF baby.

Then I had DD. Surely I would have learned from my previous experience, right? So wrong I was. She had tongue tie and shredded my nipples. It actually caused gasps at 2 different BF support groups. Mastitis followed, by low milk supply (used nipple shields to protect them somewhat) and a very unsettled baby. As I also had my toddler, I packed it in fully by 3 1/2 months.

This time round, I found myself sobbing as if I was grieving for weeks. I would stare at women BF and be wound up with anger and jealousy. I would think why wasn't that me? Had I really done enough? Why did it look so easy to do yet I couldn't do it?

To this day I still only really admit to "failing" at BF with DD and say that with DS1 we were both ready to stop at 4 1/2m. I just can't own up that I found BF hard. It makes me sad and ashamed.

I've since had another baby (DS2) who is nearly 14 m and still BF. Hooray. 3rd time lucky. It wasn't easy (yet again!). He also had tongue tie, bouts of mastitis and so on. I can't say what it was that got me through it this time round. I feel sometimes BF becomes a bloody endurance test and not exactly how I imagined I would be spending my first few months with my baby. Even though I finally have become "successful" at BF with DC3 I look back with some regret with the older DC's. Maybe that is why I am still BF?

Anyhow, for those of us who have struggled. We are not alone and this is a great place to vent/share experience.

(Nina - my DS, 10 weeks, hasn't read the formula box either, he is currently guzzling a bottle 8 times in 24 hours and taking 6oz on average - and has been since he was 7 weeks old! He was 8lb8 at birth and is now 14lb.......)

Thanks for starting this thread. Like some others I had intended to BF and had very little milk so had to combination feed from very early on and eventually changed to exclusively FF from 6 weeks when baby was taking 100-120mls and I felt my little dribble of breastmilk was neither here nor there. No changes to breast in pregnancy and zero soreness when I stopped.

Pookimum you mentioned mw's tugging at your breasts in hospital? I was sitting with my new baby (first time mother) a few hours after quite a rough caesarian and a mw sallied into my room, grabbed hold of my boob without so much as a word, tugged the nipple a few times, inserted it into the baby and trotted off. I don't want to sound like someone who frequently get the vapours, but in the state I was in I found that traumatic ... it felt like an assault. S*d that, it WAS an assault. I was utterly shocked by it ... I told myself I was being too sensitive and bottled it all up and ended up three days later bursting into tears at another midwife who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (poor lady) and phoning my partner at 3am in a state.

If there's a next time I'm getting myself a bra that says "hands" on one boob and "off" on the other.

I can remember so well sitting in the 'family room' of the hospital in the middle of the night in floods of tears desperately trying to breast-feed my screaming DS but being absolutely certain that he was getting nothing from me. On the wall next to me were 3 large posters advertising the benefits of breast-feeding, ahead of me was a breast-feeding dvd being played on a loop and I practised over and over saying the words "Can we try him with some formula?" but just couldn't find the courage to actually ask. I was in hospital 3 days and it seems so crazy to say it now but I seriously doubt he got anything in that time. By the time we got home I was beside myself with terror and I literally screamed at my DH to go and get some formula.

As others have said before, due to guilt, I have since felt the need to give a detailed explanation to practically everyone as to why I made the decision to FF and have been overwhelmed by the many many stories of extreme difficulty and upset over BFing that have been told to me by all generations! I'm not saying that I don't still believe that breast is best but I honestly don't believe BF is worth all of the upset and torture that I have heard about from many friends and relatives (Of course I'm not saying BF is like this for everyone just that it's perhaps not best to keep persevering if it is!). I can list 5 women I know who had serious concerns about their LOs weighing too little from BF and I personally don't know anyone who has experienced health problems due to FF. Just anecdotal I know but what a lot of anecdotes!

Looking back, if I had felt more comfortable asking if I could try my DS with formula as well as trying to BF in hospital I think I would have been far more likely to keep trying. I understand the argument that babies are less likely to take to the nipple once they've had formula but for me that risk would have been worth it and my DS would have had the chance to benefit from both. Instead I just panicked completely and gave up trying to BF completely.

I'm really saddened by all your hospital tales. I'm here in The Netherlands and experienced no stigma at the hospital - in fact the girl in the bed next to me didn't even try to bf. The SCBU virtually rattled with bottles!

I tried BF both DD but in different countries. It was much more relaxing outside the UK. And I didn't felt guilt when I stopped 2nd time around, and nobody accused me of poisonning DD2 as I have been told for DD1.

Very traumatic birth for DD1 with emCS, blood loss and transfusion for me, DD1 stayed with me all the time but nobody tried to get her latched. She was very sleepy and fed very little the 1st 2 days when I was transfused.
Then she started fighting me for latching a real nightmare, she lost more than the 10% after a week and then nurses became obsessed with latching the baby every 2h. I still EBF for 8 weeks, DD1 growing slowly but growing and very demanding (all I was doing was feeding). (BTW if you have blood loss you do have less milk, I have learn that since)
No growth spurt just one constant cluster feeding (but she was sleeping at night so had to compensate somehow).
When I introduced FF, MW took a complete disinterested and I had no support at all "We don't recommend FF" was all I got. The only advices I got is "continue BF" no support or no practical advice.
DD1 stopped BF at 3.5 months. Her choice, so I didn't feel that bad. changed country, and it turns out that she has a deformed palate which makes sucking more difficult.

DD2, ElCS, got separated at birth (no room available in maternity but baby in nursery and not allowed on general wards), was given bottles without my knowledge. Still lucky my milk came at 5 days due to plenty of stimulation, 20 min on each breasts before giving the baby a bottle. I wasn't going to let that one starve, and I had no guilt at all doing that this time around, I wasn't even allowed to consider that in the UK, even if DD1 clearly needed it. .

Elvisina may be you should try that next time, let the baby suck the nipple for stimulation then give a bottle, once the milk comes in fully you can stop the bottles. It shouldn't make any differences I don't know why the UK don't allow that for mother with delayed milk or having some trouble.

Plenty of milk baby feeds very well (too often ) packs up the pounds. But lots of block ducts, couldn't go out as I had to massage constanly, after the 3rd mastitis (one very severe) I gave up. And was very pleased to be able to hold my baby without hurting, no guilt (except having lost so much time BF and neglected DD1).
I did the best I could and yes I do have to answer a few "Ooooh! you are not BF?" when out. But what? I am sure some mums will find I didn't do my best, But clearly I have done what was right for my familly.
I am pleased that both DDs had a few months of BM.

good thread

dd3 is now almost 4 weeks old and has been mix fed from day 1. I am managing much better than I did with dds 1 and 2.

dd1 was ebf for almost 2 weeks it was awful, I never thought bf ing was something you had to learn how to do.

I was in so much pain and exhausted. Dh had enough and gave her some formula while I lay sobbing on the bathroom floor.

dd2 mix fed from beginning but I only lasted a few weeks as had blood transfusion after birth and was so weak.

dd3 now doing well, having 3-4 bfs a day.

Was pissed off yesterday though another mother at a playgroup we went to was giving me evils when I got the formula out then proceeded to bf her baby who had not been crying/whinging or showing any signs of hunger whilst looking at me..

girlsyearsapart - your post has made me cry and laugh. I think most of us have had that point where our boyfriend/husband has pleaded with us to just give formula. And WTF was that woman at playgroup thinking? The mind boggles!

I know dh just didn't get the whole gulit thing.. for him it was hungry baby + exhausted and in pain wife = formula and job done..

This time around even though my feeding efforts don't seem to keep the baby satisfied for long it has turned into a personal crusade for me to get to 6/8 wks so I can check the bf box at the check. Dh thinks I'm a lunatic.. he may well be right!

Am I the only one whose DH actually wanted me to persist with BF despite the agony I was in? Him: "Why not try the shields again... we want what's best for DS don't we?". Really added to my distress. It was only when I showed him the crippling split in one nipple & he saw the gaping flesh that he swooned & understood how painful it was. I couldn't get him to understand that I wasn't exaggerating the pain before that (says more about the state of our relationship sadly). I had tried to make him understand by telling him to put a bull-dog clip on his nipple and squeeze it to see how he liked it. SOB actually put a clip on his t-shirt as a joke. Seriously though... I think this 'breast is best' stuff gets to them as well. I ended up with PND. OK now, but demoralised to the point of depression then.

Miss my DH too was all up for it. But he did support me when I stopped. Well kind of, if saying do what you want is a kind of support .

Hi - I've always been to scared to join mumsnet, as a bottle feeder i thought i'd be rejected or tipped over the edge by a negative comment! I'm now strong enough to join!!
My first daughter (now 3) was born at 35 weeks, was in special care fo 14 days and i went through HELL trying to breastfeed her. I was forced into doing it, even though she couldn't suck, so i began expressing. I wasn't allowed to leave hospital until i was successfully bf her. I battled to feed her for 8 weeks. She fed every hour for half an hour, hardly put on any weight, looked terrible and was so miserable. So was i! I had all the help and advice going... i was getting pretty sick of people talking and poking around with my boobs too!
I was so exhaused one night i fell down the stairs, i was dizzy from tiredness. That night my mum arrived with formula. She sent me to bed, got bottles ready and started my little angel on formula... It was like a miracle! She was such a happy baby from that moment on and i became a happy mummy!
When my second daughter was born i bf her for 2 days and i was wreck... I had to still be a mum to my 2 year old and i did not want her just sat there next to me watching me bf her new baby sister all day. I began the formula and never looked back. FORMULA WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR US, I DON't CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS! X x

Hi, I have lurked (deffo sounds creepy!!) from previous post by bean. My 2 dds were ff from the very start, they are now 5 and almost 3 and I am pregnant with dc3. I was at my booking appt with midwife 4 weeks ago and she asked me how I had fed other 2 children I told her and she said "well there are 2 ways to feed your baby and we will support you in which ever you decide" Have to say was pleasantly surprised.

oh my goodness I have just got back onto computer after a while and am stunned at the number of people who have posted!

soo many stories from different people, but the main thing is that everyone wants to do the best for their babies. when the "breast is best" campaign is all we see (well all I seemed to see!!) when was pg it is hard to get used to the idea of ff also being good for your baby. don't get me started on the guilt thing..

ninaandbean how are things going now?

girlsyearsapart can't believe that mother at playgroup how judgmental is that.

Wow wigglesrock sounds like you have a good MW there!

at the end of the day, if it works for you and your baby (and the rest of the family!) then whats everyone else's problem?

thank uk a bit of balance at last...THANK YOU ladies. my story similar to skihorse. we have drip, tube, bottle, cup and boob fed so far; bf, ff, fortifer, meds whatever it took to get lo from 2lb 6 at 30 weeks to a respectable 10lbs at 10 weeks corrected. bonding? the loveliest thing to see is my wee one momentarily release the bottle teat to grin lovingly at his dad and then get right back to it...slightly annoying for me is he is now refusing formula but hey thats life! my bike and board freedom will have to be in short blasts, who cares we're both alive...oohh that magnesium trip! my enlightment came via a lovely young special care midwife just back from working in OZ, she was really amazed and pleased to see loads of combo feeding and loads of teen mums too. they just dont do the guilt trip, knit your own breastmilk vibe! brilliant thread LONG OVERDUE X

my ds is 3.5 months and have made decision today to switch to formula. Am just too tired, he is 92% baby and feeding 2 hourly day and night.
have 2 year old dd who hates me feeding him, even shouts in her sleep about it
feel need some support but its annoying tat i should isnt it!!

I'm hanging up my breastpump today. In the last 48 hours I've spent 3+ hours hooked up to it and produced a truly mighty 2oz!

I'm not too worried about mastitis/exploding breasts.

pamelat Welcome and Yep, you should go with what works for you and your family and NOT listen - easier said than done. Stay away from the lentil-weavers until you feel more confident in your decision and check out the links people have posted here - all good, positive stuff! :)

galon I'm doing ok thanks :) have moments where I think about giving up BF with sadness, but then I have beautiful moments with DS looking into my eyes, happy, fed, content... having said that we're dealing with some possible reflux issues right now but that's not about formula, that's just about feeding. It's probably less upsetting than him puking everything he got off the boob actually, at least I can go get him some more formula now, and I'm not physically as well as mentally worn out by it!

I went out to see some friends today who all have babies under 10 weeks old. 2 are BF happily, one is BF with struggles, I'm FF with EBM occasionally. When we swapped stories about the BF experience the girls still going happily along, with no pain, were horrified and didn't for a minute judge me when they heard about DS's vomited blood etc... the friend persevering who has been through similar trials to me understands too... I am in awe of her continuing, but I don't envy her. No judgeypants anywhere to be seen.

I think I wished I had the fantasy BF relationship - but actually, FF my DS has given me that relationship - feeding without pain, successfully... BF is not going to give me that (this time, anyway) two and a half weeks on you can still see the cracks and scars on my nipples. Expressing can still draw blood. Thank god for a bottle in the middle of the night!

Skihorse lol @ lentil weavers... lets all stay positive and keep this thread going. We're good mummies!! And I've taken advice from my old thread and am 'feeding my child with love'. Amen to that.

Good thread. Just stopping by with some links which I think are useful for people to reference to when new posters pop up asking for info on FF.

Of course the BFers on this thread don't know so much about FFing so you lovely ladies can provide info and share stories and support each other.

I come back to this topic as I am passionate about safer formula feeding.

My favourite links are:

A guide to infant formula for parents.

Guidance for HCPs on bottle preparation. - much better than all the other leaflets because it gives alternatives.

WHO guidelines on safer formula feeding.

I also have a traumatic tale to tell re BF - involving undiagnosed tongue-tie - poor weight gain - awful latch - dianosed as "failure to thrive"....

I know that some of you on this thread are not UK based - but I think it is important for all new mothers to be pointed in the direction of the info on safer formula feeding.

Although the World Health Organisation guidelines apply to all countries I am aware that many countries have not bothered to adopt them.

The UK has adopted them but has failed to required sufficient info to be printed on formula packs and has also failed to properly communicate the issue to HCPs.

Formula powder is not sterile. It can contain bacteria (such as E. sakazakii and salmonella) and these can cause serious and fatal illness in babies. The risk are higher for newborns (especially premature and low birth weight babies) and also babies whose immune systems are compromised.

The advice is to make up the powder with water which is 70 degrees C.

This is because the WHO risk assessment model demonstrated that this practice provided the greatest degree of protection against invasive E. sakazakii disease in infants.Water above 70°C will kill E. sakazakii and any other bacteria like Salmonella that may be in the PIF.

If you don't have a thermometer then 1 litre boiled in a kettle and left for 30 mins will be about 70 degrees.

I hope I won't be accused of de-railing the thread but I can suggest that if anyone wants to debate the method of making formula or ask me questions then it may be best to do it on this thread.

The absolute best guidance I have found hails from Ireland - it answers all questions about this and all types of scenarios. It is guidance note 22 here.

Good thread! I too had issues with BF'ing related to a severe tongue tie, pain, poor latch and a long fight to get it sorted which eventually led to me FF'ing. I do think there can be poor information for people on FF'ing, especially in the safe preparation of formula - so I think it's great what Tabouleh is doing (not meaning to suck up!). I also think many women have had difficult experiences with FF'ing/BF'ing and feelings of failure etc that they need to vent (myself included!).I think it's great that there is a thread where FF'ers (through choice or necessity) can share their thoughts and feelings!

I just got back from my doctors office because I wanted to check out some stuff with DS's reflux issues, he was so helpful! i was feeling upset about dropping the expressing (milk all but gone now) but STILL have fissures etc from the damage caused by BF, which I stopped two and a half weeks ago now. Very ouchy and had begun bleeding into the pump, which is a new low! My lovely GP told me to just forget about it and not for one minute to feel guilty about that decision at all. He said that women with flat/inverted nipples (mine are completely flat unless 'drawn out' artificially) almost NEVER in his experience, manage to BF on their own without serious tissue damage, bleeding, cracks etc - and that in his medical opinion, which I realise is just one man so I'm not suggesting his opinion is the be all and end all - he said that 'lactivists' have gone too far, and that there is nothing wrong with FF babies, especially when BF represents pain and misery for the mother. He was shocked that none of the midwives, BFC's or nurses even mentioned to me that my nipples were likely part of the problem... and told me that he thinks the guilt new mothers are made to feel when BF doesnt work out is outrageous.

Now I know that BF has lots of benefits and I myself was totally pro before it didn't work out for me and DS (and still am in awe of people who get on with it and carry on, I wish I could have done!) but I really, truly, could have kissed the man. It felt like hearing a voice of reason in the wilderness. SOME WOMEN CANNOT BF WITHOUT PAIN. It's not possible for it to work out every time, for everyone. We are not failures if we don't 'succeed' in feeding from the boob. And FF is an excellent, rigorously tested, medically appropriate alternative. I feel like a weight has lifed :) I feel much better. He even suggested if I have #2 to go straight to expressing colostrum and not even put the baby on if it's less painful that way, and to remember that FF from birth would not be a disaster at all. It would just be an alternative start. What a nice, reasonable man!

So rock on to all the successful BF mummies out there. And rock on to all of us successful FF mummies too!

lovely post nina!