Support for those FF

[galonthefarm]

Not sure if this is the best description for a thread, but basically just somewhere for anyone who is FF who did not set out to do so - to chat to others about it, as there are so many feelings involved (yes, including guilt and also relief!)

My dd (5.5 months) is now exclusively bottle fed, using up supplies of frozen ebm once a day until its gone. She was 5 weeks early and we were advised to top up from the beginning so she put on weight. Now a very chubby 15 lb plus!

There are so many different stories I've heard from friends and on here, and I think it is so important to realise you are not alone in how you feel. I don't get on here much but thought would start the ball rolling! x

This is a great thread.

I was quite ill after giving birth and BF didn't work out. I think my body was focussing on fixing me not making milk. It seems like a lot of the people posting here have had traumatic births.

I was beginning to dread my baby waking up as I would have to try to feed her. Luckily a friend of mine who is a paediatrician said to me while I was pregnant that she sees too many mothers in floods of tears trying to BF and feeling guilty if they fail and in her opinion FF was fine and can be in the best interest of both the baby and mother. My GP was also very supportive. My husband also did a lot of reading on the research into the "breast is best" message and decided that the scientific evidence is much weaker than portrayed.

I switched at 5 days and was so pumped full of antibiotics that stopping didn't cause any problems, I don't think I was really producing much milk as expressing didn't produce anything.

I love FF - I find it convienient, DH and my mother can also do it, I can interact with DD as she feeds. If I have any more DC I intend to EFF from the start. I really haven't looked back since switching.

I am pretty irritated with the propaganda surrounding BF - the posters and leaflets show the benefits of BF but not the disadvantages and whilst I had the support I needed to make the right decision for me without feeling bad, I don't think this is true of everyone.

lainey1981 I would say that you should not be expressing for that amount of time.

Do a couple of minutes on a low setting to get your milk flowing and then don't do more than 15 mins on each breast on a higher/faster setting. I have been advised that you do not need to keep pumping for 40 odd mins but that is is better to do it very frequently and for less time. Frequency is the key.

I was doing 40 mins like you when I first started but switched tactics and after a few days found I had a good deal more milk.

Good luck with it.

daisy thanks for the advice, I shall give that a go!

Lainy - You must not feel bad about switching to ff, in an ideal world we would all bf, and like you I am well aware of the additional health benefits etc.

My ds is 3 weeks tommorow and I have been through a similar ordeal with bfing. He is my third child and I was determined to bf this time, as did not have much luck with the other 2 either and they were mix fed until about 6 weeks then EFF.

This time round, i had no problems with latch etc but he would be starving hungry inspite of epic 2 hour feeds from both sides. My nipples were in agony and he was getting dehydrated and was miserable. I am sure I have a problem with my milk supply as like many others who have been unable to bf, my breasts hardly changed in pregnancy and I never felt like my 'milk came in'. I carried on though and the result was that I got mastitis due to bacteria entering through the nipple wounds. I have been on a high dose of antibiotics for 2 weeks now and the doctor is concerned that I may be getting an abscess. My breasts were so sore that expressing or feeding was impossible. I therefore had to start ffing. Although very upsetting for me, ds is actually thriving now and much happier. I feel guilty that my body was unable to provide him with what he needed but glad that he is not constantly starving!

We need a mumsnet campaign to get all these well meaning health professionals to see the bigger picture, let's have some ''I love formula feeding'' posters to balance things out as well please!!!!

I couldn't bf dd 6 years ago and ended up with PND because of it (guilt). Am currently bf-ing ds and am introducing formula slowly (he's 3 months) and all the old feelings are flooding back but am not letting them get to me.

lainey you need to becareful about expressing too much if you are trying to cut down BF. It will stimulate your supply. The way to avoid mastitis and engorgement is to have a hot shower and massage out any lumps. AFAIR. I did this with DS2 and didn't have any problems, unlike with DS1 when I had a hellish time trying to BF and had mastitis twice in 6 weeks!

getstuffed we certainly do, but the old BF lobby would object very strongly I fear.......And this time with DS2 you will be better equipped to deal with the fact that many many mothers can't BF as they would like. You will be fine. Remember, it's just hormones fucking with you!

Breast milk IS technically better than formula milk (because scientists can't copy the immunology benefits - breast milk is a living thing) but we should also remember that the info saying 'babies who are not breastfed are x times more likely blah blah blah' needs to be read as statistical probabilities, NOT certainties. I hate seeing 'home-cooked meal vs ready meal' and 'good quality vs cheapo oil' analogies that I saw on another MN thread yesterday - what a load of self righteous rubbish. Our thriving babies are proof that OF COURSE formula isn't bad. I was a formula fed baby and it hasn't done me any harm :)

While I do know that BFing needs to be promoted and supported by the NHS, the downside is that there is a lack of FFing info out there. And of course, everytime we see the 'Breast is best' type posters on the bus and at the doctors etc, we read between the lines and see 'you're not doing your best = you're a bad mum,'. Which, of course, we're not!

IMO, the NHS DOES need to get their act together on providing better info on FFing though, absolutely, and supporting women who are struggling with BFing and making a switch or wanting to mix feed. I mix feed (mostly FF) as we couldn't 'BF properly' but was lead to believe that it was all or nothing. It doesn't have to be.

You only need to read all the threads on this board to see how many people have queries about how to make up FF to realise that info is not being given where it should. In fact, one of my BFing friends who struggled at the start and was trying to get info on FFing from her HV was miffed to be dismissed with 'just read the instructions' type of attitude. I left hospital with syringes and a baby cup because baby couldn't latch, and no additional info on how to FF and was in a right state when I got home. That shouldn't have happened.

borrower couldn't agree with you more. I was told by one HV/MW (can't remember which now) that they 'weren't allowed' to give advice on FF . To not provide guidance and advice is surely only placing a baby at risk and I can't see how they are fulfilling their duty of care to not provide info when asked.

Also meant to say that when I left hospital with DD, the only comment passed re feeding was, 'are you happy to go home when you've not established bf?' I was desperate to get home by that stage (had been in hopsital for 5 days!). We hadn't got bottles, sterilsers, FF etc in an effort to be positive about BF, so I remember DH dropping me and DD at home and shooting straight down to mothercare to get everything we needed. Interestingly, having shown no interest in feeding from me, she immediately took a bottle no problem and off we went. At her first weigh she had already put on weight. She fed beautifully and we were a contented FF feeding family.

I've just found this very interesting study into Mothers? experience of, and attitudes to, using infant formula in the early months which concludes that:

A process of cultural transmission seems to have turned provision of health information about the benefits of breastfeeding into hostility about formula use. This has a detrimental effect on relationships that are very important for new mothers, namely with health professionals and with other mothers.
The main recommendation that can be made on the basis of this research is that communication with women regarding the health benefits of breastmilk needs to be detached from negativity about formula use. Use of formula milk needs to be depoliticised and treated objectively as a routine aspect of baby care, rather than as a moral issue.

breathslowly Thanks for posting the link to that study - it's brilliant, god, I can empathise with most of what's in it! Agree with the conclusion too

Lovely article. Very well articulated. We don't just make ourselves feel guilty.
I know lots of women who hid ff equipment when midwives came round and pretended they were bf and then got it all back out when they went. How ludicrous that they felt they had to do that.

I have been reading this thread with interest even though my DCs are well past babyhood.

I did BF (under huge pressure)and hated it. i had infections bleeding nipples the lot, and I think BFing realy contirbuted to my PND.

If I had my time over I would def FF and be happy! I feel angry that I was under such pressure and didn't do what I wanted to do which was FF. I just have miserable memories of my babies first months when we could have been happily bonding over a bottle instead.

So well done you lot and keep it up!

breathslowly - what a wonderful piece of research! That's EXACTLY what many FF'ing women are being made to feel like now, it is so wrong. I too remember hiding a bottle down the back of the sofa so I wouldn't get the 'look' from the HV. It's balmy. If I ever have another baby and BF does not work out I have sworn to myself that I will not be ashamed but will be a proud FF'er and will tell people where to go if they criticise. I do think the pro BF lobby has become a bit obsessed with formula. Just look at poor old Ed Milliband and family daring to say they use Aptamil! The Shame!

Hi, i think it's a really good idea to have a support thread for those who intended to BF but then didn't.

scuse the one-handed typing and lack of punctuation but DS is asleep in my arms.

He is 9 weeks,and mow fully FF. I feel really passionately that BF is best, to the extent that with my DD1 i went through the process of relactation at 8 weeks old (we had major probs getting feeding going after birth). She had been fully FF until that point.

I was sure BF would be easier with my son. was far, far more knowledgeable, knew loads about the theory and practice of feeding and milk production etc.

DS was difficult to feed from the start. it turns out he has a posterior tongue tie, severe reflux and a recessed chin. The reflux is horrendous, he is unhappy much of the time and keeping him soothed is physically and mentally exhausting. To top it all off, DS's paedeatrician has now suggested he may have some muscular abnormalities and has ordered blood and chromosome tests.

I EBFed him for 5 weeks before developing severe postnatal depression and anxiety. At that point the choice was made for me as i had to hand over DS's care to my mum and fab DH for the best part of 3 weeks while I was completely unable to cope with even looking after myself. When i started feeling better my milk had dried up.

Now i am feeling on the road to recovery following treatment and haved toyed with the idea of relactation but am not sure i have it in my physically and mentally this time, or whether it's the right decision fo the family as a whole - I need to be well for both kids.

In truth, I find FF inconvenient, messy and I hate the lack of spontenaity borne of always always having to think whether you ahve enough bottles/ formula packed, etc.
I feel very sad that my DS is not BF; this feeling is not a result of pressure from outside, it is all from inside me.

Personally, and I know that lots of people on here disagree, I think that the information the NHS provides on FF is pretty adequate and overall I feel that while there is now more BF support, knowledge about it among healthcare professionals is very poor generally. MWs and particularly the HVs I have met have been almost to a fault very poorly informed about BF and in no position to support mums and babies having even minor issues.

I think this is the real problem - mums are given the clear message that breast is best but without this being backed up with adequate knowledge among healthcare professionals.

Narmada - do you think the information on the emotional side of ff from the NHS and the healthcare professionals is adequate?

Pommedeterre, not sure: when I've been FF my two, the attitude of the health professionals has always been ultra-supportive to be honest. Perhaps it would be best for the NHS printed material to say something along the lines of 'the way you choose to feed your baby can be an emotional decision. You may wish to discuss how you feel about the way you are feeding your baby with your health visitor or GP.' Or something along those lines.

I read the Frank Furedi article and have to be honest - I was a bit at both the nature of the research itself, the way it was reported, and the conclusions reached. The examples pulled out in the research are leading, closed questions which are liable to bias the findings and conclusions. I don't think it's possible, or necessarily desirable, to make information about breast- OR bottle-feeding apolitical or unemotional. Feeding your baby's an emotional thing for many, many people and whether we like it or not it is a fact that breastfeeding is generally associated with health benefits for both the child and mother and also that formula feeding is big business. But that's just my opinion and I know might not be shared by others.

"the way you choose to feed your baby can be an emotional decision. You may wish to discuss how you feel about the way you are feeding your baby with your health visitor or GP"

Excellent idea. This should also help to stop people feeling they have to hide bottles :(

Ho hum, I have just looked again at the Frank Furedi article and seen that the research on which it was based was funded by the Infant and Dietetic Foods Association, now known as the British Specialist Nutrition Association. THe BSNA represents and promotes the interests of formula manufacturers, among other industries.

The source of research funding need not (and should not - if it's well-conducted and carried out ethically) influence the conduct and finding of research but in reality it often does. I had a feeling I would find an interesting source of funding if I looked again at the article.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying that formula feeding mums (and remember, I am one!) don't deserve to have their feelings reported, validated and heard. Just that feeding is a political issue, no getting away from it.

Whilst I agree that "breastfeeding is generally associated with health benefits for both the child and mother" - though some of the research is weaker than portrayed - the leaflets and MW never mention that breastfeeding is associated with health problems too. Cracked nipples, mastitis, thrush, blocked ducts, babies hospitalised due to dehydration and weight loss and as this thread demonstrates mental health and bonding issues when it fails. It is very difficult to compare the two sets of health issues to decide which are more important (particularly as some are short term and others long term), but a better balance of advice and support could be made.

Narmanda, I like to think of this thread as support for FF mums, NOT for FF mums "who intended to BF but then didn't"

Makes it sound, again, like we have to validate our choice. :(

breathe it is definitely a very complicated issue, agreed. to take my own example, early-onset PND had a negative effect on my ability to BF DD from outset. But... getting BF-re-established with her 8 weeks later was, with anti-depressants, a major factor in me getting better.

I so feel tho that most of the problems you menttion- eg cracked nips and mastitis are not inevitable and could be lessened or avoided with better real-life one-on-one support from properly-trained professionals - but that is expensive to provide. On the other hand, if it enabled mums who want to to carry on BF and avoid PND or bonding issues it would be money well spent!

totally agree toddlerwrangler...

I didnt intend to bf with my first dd and only got to second feed with my 2nd...i was very ill informed and un supported.
Its only now,knowing what i know and in different circumstances that i have a ridiculous amount of regret and guilt.

Needless to say i feel like i am being isolated even on a thread designated for FFers as it is implied that its only for those that set out wanting to BF but didnt manage it

I feel like the guilt i carry is probably of the worst kind as i was fully capable in hindsight of being able to BF.

Totally agree - this is support for FF mums, not those who feel they've somehow "failed". Not having a go at anyone - just wanting this thread to be welcoming to ALL! :)

I love everything about FF - and I doubt I'll go much further than colustrum next time around.

funkydemon - please don't feel like that. I agree that this thread should be for everyone who FF. I truely believe that how you feed your DC is a really minor part of how you bring them up and the decisions you make about it are the best decisions you can make for you and your baby at the time given the information and support available to you. Think of everything you do that demonstrates your love and care for your DC - I am not sure why we get hung up on how we feed them for 6 months given everything else we do for them (and could do wrong).