Why isn't depressing seated racism on MN challenged more?

[FloweryCurtainTwitcher]

So. I am not black but I am not white. My great grandparents (as far as I know) were EE Jewish, black African , white African, Irish, North African and white British x3 . One of my parents was born and raised in West Africa until age 15ish.

As a child growing up in white rural England I was bullied about my big lips (they are luscious- no lip filler required here) and my thick black hair that has a definite kink (Jewish or African- who knows? Irish maybe? ). I didn't really think about my ethnicity until I grew up and reflected a bit more about it. But I did know that attacking people because of how they looked was wrong.

I find the subcultural of racism on MN unacceptable. The threads this weekend about Meghan Markle are indicative `(people claiming they are not racists they just dont like her- for lots of ridiculous reasons- basically she is an independent black woman )

I believe that we should all challenge deeply embedded racism constantly regardless of our ethnicity. Not just the National Front type stuff which is explicit but the deep societal implicit racism which underpins our society.

So why does no-one ever call it out on MN- why are so many posts with inherent racist views allowed to go unchallenged? Why isnt every post with racist undertones receiving hundreds of reports?

Is it pointless? Is MN like the MET police and institutionally racist ?

(5 years of commuting through elephant and castle- everyday saw MET police pull someone over. ONCE only were they not black- so 1000 approx stops- only 1 white)

Imagine Louis had been Archie - the headlines on how unruly their child is etc! We would have never heard the end of it. The current headlines say he is very sweet, lovely grandpa rocking him etc etc.

@Mosmuma

I could write the headlines I honestly could

Legitimate criticism of Meghan Markle based on her behaviour and the fact that she demonstrably lied during her interview with Oprah ≠ racism.

I have been speaking about Meghan for years I don't get the irrational hate. If I was just annoyance, I would accept that. But it is not. It is off the charts with ridiculous vitriolic nastiness and it's taken me a long time to realise it's more than 'annoyance'

Do you go on about awful stuff other royals have done years ago?
Doubtful

The excuses are just ridiculous. Where are your posts about PC when he lied during his TV appearance about Diana. Where are your posts about PW lying when he said we are very much not a racist family?
Where are the posts of your legitimate criticism of that and many other things other members of the RF do?

There is no evidence at all that she lied. Some of the things that she said differed from the daily mail (a source from the palace) . I wonder which is closest to the truth

and yes it is racism
plenty on the I feel sorry for Harry thread as well

You are saying its racist to dislike Meghan. No one is being racist to Kate so it won’t apply to her children.
She was in Suits. No negativity because no one cared enough to comment ( bit like Sharon Osbourne) . Dating Harry, some comments no negativity. Engaged to Harry and obviously Harry’s future wife invites comment. Turns out she’s quite annoying. Lots of comments from people saying it’s because of her being mixed race. Lots of others saying not. Shit hits the fan so even more negativity now about both.

Its the Black Mumsnetter topic though so I fully accept you have a different viewpoint and I’ll leave you to it.

Your user name is light is not white!
Could be innocent but also could not be.

Well seeing as a scroll of today's DM articles features Louis with his hand clamped over his mother's mouth, along with just under 900 comments mostly along the lines of what a little darling he is, where another has photos of H&M just existing and has garnered over 14k mostly negative comments, I'd say yes.

Transcript of Meghan / Oprah interview:

Meghan: …you know, three days before our wedding, we got married . . . 

Oprah: Ah!

Meghan: No one knows that. But we called the Archbishop, and we just said, ‘Look, this thing, this spectacle is for the world, but we want our union between us’. So, like, the vows that we have framed in our room are just the two of us in our backyard with the Archbishop of Canterbury…

That was a lie. They didn’t get married three days before the wedding. They were married on the day of the ceremony, a fact which was confirmed by the Archbishop, who was the person that married them. Meghan lied. That is a fact, and to point it out is in no way racist.

I’m not saying it’s racist to dislike someone. I’m saying the campaign against her is steeped in prejudice and racism. However, I agree with you that we’re simply not going to agree.

I’m not really sure what the relevance of it being in black mumsnet topic is. Unless you’re saying ‘oh well it only offends the black people, who cares about them.’ If it’s any help I’m actually white British. Still think the royal family are pointless and the campaign against Meghan Markle is steeped in racism though. And maybe a bit of good old British snobbery.

They had a 'ceremonial' wedding, not a legally binding one.

stop looking for excuses

Who fucking cares? Why are you still talking about this, there are more pressing things to cry about in the world.

This. The amount of energy this poster is putting into trying to make what H&M did a problem is mystifying to myself.

Dating Harry, some comments no negativity. Engaged to Harry and obviously Harry’s future wife invites comment. Turns out she’s quite annoying. Lots of comments from people saying it’s because of her being mixed race. Lots of others saying not. Shit hits the fan so even more negativity now about both

You need to look on the threads on here when they were just dating. There's a thread called 'I'm fucking sick of Meghan and Harry already*. They weren't even married at that point! What does that mean?
There were lots of threads shredding her.

Mmmm then why aren't you talking about Prince Andrew?

If your brother, uncle, son or dad looks like Andrew, its easy to forgive him and look the otherway.

Half of these people will NEVER be happy with anything short of full blown submission from Meghan.

Personally I can’t stand any of them!

Does this mean one can't criticise/dislike a black person just because they're black? Are all people of colour above criticism?

That is bullshit. Black people's shit can stink as much as white person or is this no longer true. Black people can be fuckers just as much as white people or is this no longer true either?

Should we check the colour of a person's skin before saying they're a fucker and then keep our mouths shut if they're black? Really!
How do you think that's going to pan out?

I don't like Megan Markle-in as much as I 'know' her.
I don't like the Duchess of Cornwall-in as much as I 'know' her.

Both seem manipulative women to me and just because one is black, doesn't means she get a pass.

The problem isn’t people expecting Meghan to ‘get a pass’ because she is black. The problem is that this goes beyond a dislike of someone who just happens to be mixed race. It is a systematic campaign of vitriol that the duchess of Cornwall or Sharon Osborne or any other relatively unremarkable public figure does not get. People do not start obsessive threads to pick apart the duchess of Cornwall’s photographs. They don’t jump on threads about Prince Andrew (a disgusting predator) and say ‘well what about the duchess of Cornwall, I don’t like her).

These things are reserved for Meghan Markle. And whether your reasons for disliking her are based in racism or not, your aligning with a racist group to join in bashing her. For me personally, I have nothing to say about her. I thought she was average in Suits and that’s about as much as I know. But would I jump in with a bunch of people clearly prejudiced in one way or another to compare her to a grotesque and horrible predatory man? Would I copy a family photo of her from Instagram to start sneery threads about how bad her toddler and baby look? No. It’s hateful and weird.

"based in racism or not"...this is really saying, well all criticism might not be valid because this person is black and therefore these remarks must be rooted in in it. It tries to lessen, dampen, negate what is often valid criticism based on that person's public persona by saying that there must be racist intent in it somewhere.

Megan Markle has a persona which many people dislike and just because she is mixed race, does not make her immune from that remark and nor can it be dismissed as just unpleasant racism.

Black people can be twats, grabbers, shit stirrers just as much as any whites. Black and white fuckers can be found anywhere-no race has a monopoly on it!

I think you'll find there is plenty of "systemic campaigns of vitriol" against white people including Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Prince Andrew. There's quite an effort against Jack Monroe, JK Rowling and Katie Price. That's just a few.

Apart from JK Rowling-they all deserve it as does Megan Markle. She doesn't get a pass and I won't be cowed into not speaking ill of in case someone comes along and wants to imply that by daring to do so I must be racist!

We need to get away from being frightened or wary of criticizing a person of colour, fearful that others might think what we're really talking about is the colour of their skin-so fearful that we decide it's the better part of valour not to make any negative remark about them at all.

Tis bollocks. Make negative remarks about those who draw your ire and don't be frightened to do so, regardless of their colour.

I don't think you get that it's the sheer scale of vitriol. Often for absolutely no reason unless it's harping on about something that's just nothing, like the private vows before the wedding type thing
It's just banging on and on about someone who is just living their life across the ocean, not supported by the taxes you pay, but who happens to be married to the grandson of the Queen.
Even when Meghan is doing absolutely nothing wrong and there's no press on her, criticism from the past is just endlessly regurgitated on and on. What's she done now to make you angry and speak ill of her? What?
If you said 'nothing' I'd have some respect for you.

Prince Andrew is a pedophile living the life of luxury so I wouldn’t really call that a campaign of vitriol. Although interesting to see that you’ve decided that’s somehow comparable to Meghan having a personality you dislike.

There isn’t a campaign against JK Rowling on mumsnet, quite the opposite. There is a movement against her on other sites because she spoke out for women’s rights. As for the Katie Price thing, I think the vitriol against her is equally wrong and mainly rooted in nasty gossip.

You’re sounding stupider by the minute as you try to justify the constant threads of gross hatred towards her.

But anyway I think OP has had her question answered now. People don’t challenge the deep seated racism on mumsnet (and in fact in British culture unfortunately) because it can feel utterly and completely pointless. From ‘ what, so I can’t hate someone just because they’re black’ to ‘well I hate people who sexually assault kids, what’s the difference’ to ‘but what about WHITE kids scholarships, aren’t they important?’ It’s exhausting and sometimes feels better just to say ‘eh, some people don’t want to get it.’