Black men protesting BLM but exclusively dating white women

[LillyFlower1984]

I’m always confused about black men or men of colour in the media and RL who shout racism/BLM and so on yet when you look at their lifestyle they are married to white women. When you go on to find out more they only ever have dated/married white women.... what are people’s take on this?

We've had a lot of reports about this thread, and we are going to take it down shortly while we take a closer look.

@England101 I agree with your points in the main but not a nice generalisation to say many black men are confused.

Though I do agree with points 2 and 3.

This thread is nonsensical. Black lives matter depending upon who you love or attracted is an absolutely ridiculous concept.

I wish you wouldn't @RivkaMumsnet.

Hello everyone. We've reinstated this thread now but can we ask that the discussion remains on track and relevant to the OP? We've had mails from a number of posters who felt that some of the points made were being deliberately misinterpreted. This is obviously an important discussion for black women to have and centres on the continuing struggle to have their voices heard. For this reason, we'd like it to remain civil and constructive. Thank you.

@nevereverplease

Honestly, I wish OP never started this thread. The opinions of some people on it makes me feel this is why our black community is broken in many ways. It makes me sad.

Black people seem to continuously divide each other, for one reason or another.

So many comments about black men this and black men that. It's just wrong.

Do you think there's a thread of white women bashing white men or vice versa or ever would be? Or Asians bashing Asians?

Sad. Really I find it heart breaking

Yay! Thank you Mumsnet!

@nevereverplease

I wish I didn't have to participate in conversations like these either. I am a mother of two black boys and the anti-black woman nonsense that I've grown up around need not sway them. It exists, it is so toxic and it too frequently/easily comes from the mouths of black males. My husband (spent his school years in West Africa) probably thought like you, until he was exposed to nonsense from my family members, and then his own teenage nephew.

However, I do spy a change in direction (on social media anyway). There is hope.

@OP Completely agree with you. Quite a few non white posters here who are completely ignorant of this and refuse to see what the issue is when explained to them. That’s the main reason why we have this dedicated place on MN ‘BLACKMUMSNETTERS’, so we can have these types of discussions without having to continuously explain and provide evidence.

I’m African, and quite a few male friends since arriving in the U.K. have suddenly declared, they don’t date black women. When asked why? they have all given a lot of stupid reasons; they’re too argumentative (basically don’t take crap!), too demanding (as in expecting them to be responsible, chip in financially, etc etc) too fat! I pointed out there are loads of skinny black women? list of other physical features they don’t like. I told one, your mama is fat!

The issue isn’t dating another race, the issue is declaring entire planet of black females non dateable, when you yourself are black! That is a form of self hate and makes no sense.

On the subject of silence and not sticking up for black women, it reminds me of the ‘friend’ at school, who when you are confronted by bullies, is too scared to speak up for you and thinks perhaps if they join in/stay quiet/laugh a bit at their jokes it will make the bullies like them Because they lack the confidence to stand their ground.

I think these particular men, think by erasing black women as possible romantic partners, in the long run they have elevated themselves from the issues ‘blackness’ brings. They are deluded!

There’s an argument too that black women should look further a field although there is also the issue of the backlash black women face from within the black community (usually from black males as pointed out upthread) when they do this. Examples; Serena Williams, Tamera and many others. Double standards!

Completely agree with you. Quite a few non white posters here who are completely ignorant of this and refuse to see what the issue is when explained to them.

I mean that may be partially true, but I think the confusion / outrage was caused by the OP, which didn't delve into the aforementioned issues. It seemed like a goady thing to say without any additional detail or explanation IMO (i.e. men who put down black women but support BLM are of course an issue, but that's not the case for all black men who date white women and support BLM).

Yup yup,

I totally get what OP and those who have aligned with her are talking about. It's such a shame that I had to wade through so many comments from posters who are clearly not black, though, it spoiled it for me, such a time waster. I really want to know what black women think about this, which I assume was the intent of the OP as she posted here.

A few things then. So, I recently watched Steve McQueen's BCA interview. He talks about getting therapy to deal with some issues he had, and he says (not verbatim but likely close) 'you know you have to get a black therapist because white people don't understand what is going on up in here". Then he says 'oh i shouldn't have said that, I'm sorry, but it's true though (sorry not sorry)". I scratched my head at that, the man is married to a white woman. Anyway, yes, I know black people who aren't going out of their way to watch his Small Axe films precisely because they are sceptical about watching media produced by someone who is so much on the black ting, but married to a white woman. They have nothing against his relationship, they just wonder how these things fit together.

I'll say this, too however, I know a lot of black women who are drumming drumming drumming home the BLM message, and they too are with white men. I have a friend like this, in the public eye, and I ask her about it, she says yeah, they have been together since the day dot and it is what it is now, but given her time again she would think twice. Could someone please PM me who is the well known media woman that was spoken of earlier, I really have no clue.

Then, yes, I want to say this. I have seen black men who are older than me, so say in their 40s, split from their white partners, for whatever reason, the next time I see a lot of them they are with black women. Interestingly, often they are unmistakably black, I'm talking from the Caribbean, from West Africa, probably not even born here, the attire, the bodily figure, completely black social circle, loves the traditional food, the music, the chat , the language, the all-black commune with friends you know, steeped in blackness. It's as though the black men grow up, grow into themselves, or I don't know, feel at one with themselves, anyway something happens and they go full force black. Deep down inside it's what they always wanted, I think. So to OP, this black-women-hating black men, I don't think many of them really hate us at all, it's quite the opposite, and when they date white women and we don't care, well, what else can they do but make up that they rejected us. I think it's a performance for themselves as well as us, and we all stop bothering with performances as we get older....

That's not to say their aren't some beautiful genuine black man / white woman relationships out there, I just think they are the small minority.

About whether sexual attraction is innate. I honestly would have thought it was common knowledge that this is not so. Anyway, I know this guy black guy who was sent to an all white boarding school from a very young age. Badly bullied and teased etc. Abated as a teenager when he started to join in with the white boys on those laddy type things including girls. Now as a grown man he ONLY dates white women and is now married to one, but says it's so sad he actually feels that he can't be attracted to black women because it was knocked out of him as a teenager with all the bullying and he had to go for white girls to fit in with his peers. He doesn't hate black women, he just can't feel sexual / erotic about them.

Imagine?

Look, OP and everyone else, I am with you 100%. However, I actually feel sorry for the men. They might never experience the wonderful black lives we do. Sad sad sad for them.

@yomommasmomma

So again because my husband is married to me a white women, he doesn't want equality for his sister, cousins and nieces?? Such one dimensional thinking here

Ha! You don’t know a thing. Black men will shout down on black women as though their own mother isn’t black! I think this is black women’s argument on many occasions.. the first poster was accurate @DeeCeeCherry

Look at the new Bachelor, he has more or less said don't expect him to pick a Black woman.

*That's not to say their aren't some beautiful genuine black man / white woman relationships out there, I just think they are the small minority.

Then, yes, I want to say this. I have seen black men who are older than me, so say in their 40s, split from their white partners, for whatever reason, the next time I see a lot of them they are with black women.*

It really makes you wonder; how many non-black women truly know the extent of self-hatred/anti-blackness their partners might be harbouring? And would it even change how these women saw their partners?

But that's for another thread!

I feel that most black women partnered with/married to white men are less vocal about why. No matter how they feel about black men, their thoughts are not something that I feel as exposed to. So as with every other racial relationship concoction out there, I don't pay it much mind.

Bold fail, that was to you @samosamo

Absolutely right. Thank you MN for reinstating the thread. Very valuable discussion.

I feel that most black women partnered with/married to white men are less vocal about why. No matter how they feel about black men, their thoughts are not something that I feel as exposed to. So as with every other racial relationship concoction out there, I don't pay it much mind. I suppose everyone's experience is different, as a white woman with a black husband of 35 years I was advised not to marry him by black women. I was told white men are a better bet, more reliable, better off financially, less likely to do drugs etc etc etc. We were all working together, they all had white boyfriends, most of them not very nice and at least one went to prison. I accept things might have changed in 35 years but that was just my experience. Makes me feel sad for my sons.

@ancientgran

I feel that most black women partnered with/married to white men are less vocal about why. No matter how they feel about black men, their thoughts are not something that I feel as exposed to. So as with every other racial relationship concoction out there, I don't pay it much mind. I suppose everyone's experience is different, as a white woman with a black husband of 35 years I was advised not to marry him by black women. I was told white men are a better bet, more reliable, better off financially, less likely to do drugs etc etc etc. We were all working together, they all had white boyfriends, most of them not very nice and at least one went to prison. I accept things might have changed in 35 years but that was just my experience. Makes me feel sad for my sons.

Yes, experiences are different and I have no reason to doubt yours. Except for the case of one paternal aunt with major self-hate issues, I haven't been surrounded by black women/girls like that, and I've several black female friends who date white men. Everything you have just said, I am used to hearing from black men to justify their choices tbh (in that white women are more financially stable, less problematic, more reliable, etc).

People think this is some black man hating, interracial couple hating thread. Doesn't look that way to me. I'm not afraid my sons will get with non black women. I'm afraid they will completely dismiss seeking relationships with black women due to nonsense perpetuated by society. If my son wanted to say BLM, I would call him a hypocrite if he told me he had a 'preference' for non black women. What kind of rubbish is that.

@collegecarrot

Completely agree with you. Quite a few non white posters here who are completely ignorant of this and refuse to see what the issue is when explained to them.

I mean that may be partially true, but I think the confusion / outrage was caused by the OP, which didn't delve into the aforementioned issues. It seemed like a goady thing to say without any additional detail or explanation IMO (i.e. men who put down black women but support BLM are of course an issue, but that's not the case for all black men who date white women and support BLM).

I think given it is a black space it is obvious what this means. Any black woman knows exactly what this conversation is about and entails. It is not good not to include a backstory for non-blaxk posters.

It's like asking every black person to quantify every single crime they have or haven't committed before people decide they are worthy of not being abused by law enforcement. Not necessary

It's like asking every black person to quantify every single crime they have or haven't committed before people decide they are worthy of not being abused by law enforcement. Not necessary

I don't agree with that at all, nor do I think it's a fair comparison. The thread was put in a goady way that appeared in Active threads - it is understandable that there was backlash.

Everything you have just said, I am used to hearing from black men to justify their choices tbh (in that white women are more financially stable, less problematic, more reliable, etc). Weird isn't it, I just found it so stupid, my husband had a good job and very reliable, they (3 of them) were going out with married men who were cheating on their wives and who made vile racist remarks behind their backs. I wouldn't even repeat some of the things they said.

Have you see O J Simpson Made in America? He was a man with issues without a doubt, I watched it on iplayer last week. Like most people I had little sympathy for a man who killed his wife but I have to confess that my feelings were very confused by the end of it. I suppose he was the stereotype of the rich black man with beautiful blonde wife with such a tragic ending. Their poor kids.

I'm raising black sons. This is a real concern for me. Writing off an entire race of women (your own) when the majority of relationships are intra-racial smacks of self hate and skewed bias probably influenced by media stereotypes.

It is my responsibility not to police who my children love but to equip them with the skills, emotional intelligence and self love to make a decision based on actual love not fulfilling some silly stereotype, or a preference based in anti-blackness and self hate. Because if he loves himself, he will not cause harm to black women regardles of who he marries and I am safe in the knowledge that should he have a daughter he will reach her to love herself too and her own blackness. I will not participate in bringing up another generation of broken black men who accept being reduced to a fetish as a compliment or keep quiet when something affects black women.

I don't feel any ownership over any black man or do I have an expectation of any black person to have a black partner (contrary to the new bachelor's musings and thoughts), but I expect black people not to participate and perpetuate anti-blackness particularly black men against black women. That is a particular brand of mysogynoir non-black women can attest to experiencing or even begin to understand so I respectfully ask you to step back from the conversation and not participate as your feelings of this being a goady conversation come nowhere near to experiencing this or having to educate your daughters that some black men are just dumb and actually think these things and will say them to you, OUT LOUD.

I expect ALL black men to be concerned about
-the adultification of black girls
-the gap between maternal care for black women and non-black and that black women are more likely to die in childbirth
-the pay gap black women specifically experience
-the incarceration rates of black women in particular those who commit a crime defending themselves against domestic abuse

• the plight of black single mothers especially immigrant mothers and the lack of access to public funds

-the silencing and tone policing of black women and angry black women trope along others I don't care if you are married to a black woman or not, have a sister, mother, daughter etc.. I want you to care as much as black women do about black men and their place in society. You should.

That it took so long for women like Breonna Taylor and others like Korryn Gaines to get some acknowledgement from BLM as victims is the problem. Black men the world erupts in uproar when you a victimised, things are slowly changing but the world knows it is a problem because in part black women have been lending their voices to bring attention to this issue. They have been protesting and speaking out before it was just a cool addition to your Twitter bio to show how Liberal and down you are. When will black men stand up and do the same instead of denigrating our names in some misinformed alliance to a preference baked in euro centric antiblackness in the media and then adopted by you. It's your turn to stand up and reciprocate #sayhername.

@collegecarrot

It's like asking every black person to quantify every single crime they have or haven't committed before people decide they are worthy of not being abused by law enforcement. Not necessary

I don't agree with that at all, nor do I think it's a fair comparison. The thread was put in a goady way that appeared in Active threads - it is understandable that there was backlash.

Again black section speaking to black posters. They get it. Want an explanation. Keep reading Stop centering yourself and just because you don't understand you think noone else does either

Mumsnet so glad you reignited this conversation thank you.

So many issues here to unravel, it is a very complex discussion but a well needed one.

I struggled as a black woman growing up knowing that I was good enough and 'beautiful' in my own way, but my skin was too dark to ever be considered by many black men. How many black women here have had black men tell them that they're the 'darkest person they ever dated and they usually go for mixed race or white'? I've heard that multiple times.

It sickens me to the core. I am with a white man but previously with black men and if I was single again would never discard my own race.

We have issues in the black community, many of them and I just hope this situation gets resolved because no other race do the men (or women) not date their own on a continuous basis. It's troubling.

As I mention I am in interracial relationship but that doesn't mean I exclusively would date white men quite the opposite. It's also embarrassing that black men often do this - as if all the other races can't see what's happening which makes us look 'unattractive' more so to others as black women.

So sad.

Again black section speaking to black posters. They get it. Want an explanation. Keep reading
Stop centering yourself and just because you don't understand you think noone else does either

Literally responding to a post, but fine Have a lovely night!

@collegecarrot

*Again black section speaking to black posters. They get it. Want an explanation. Keep reading Stop centering yourself and just because you don't understand you think noone else does either*

Literally responding to a post, but fine Have a lovely night!

But your response seems to be about your lack of understanding/need for clarity. Sometimes listening to a conversation and waiting until you gain clarity is more important than centering.

Im white @deeceecherry but it'd piss me off if all the men in my acquaintance were dating white women but judginging black women for dating white men. They are the ones making the pool smaller. I didnt know that black women and only the women received judgement for this.