It's illegal to teach about white privilege, apparently

[BIWI]

Anyone see this?

article in today's Guardian

I'm absolutely astounded - not only that this is the equalities minister saying this, but also that she black herself. How can she justify this?

Thank you JayDot500, LovelyMarie, Quaagers and RedMarauder

Tone policing of any sort should not be tolerated here and hopefully posters will think twice before doing it especially if they know we will call it out.

I read that as white people who come on to argue about tone policing or sticking our opinions out on things we have no lived experience of.
Not all white people everywhere.

@Venicelover

You act like we are discussing yoghurt flavours. I for one will just say, so bloody what if the sentiment was anger?! (I still dispute this re the post). Are people now not allowed to get angry? The emojis (which you are calling angry) actually triggered the other poster to nit pick at them. Enter you. You have subsequently offered up your time to tell us silly lot that we shouldn't use emojis when framing our objections because we should not discuss race in an angry tone. It is just not polite. No matter what we may read and feel some way about, we should not act angry and make people feel dismissed, even though the statement being objected to could be seen as dismissive. And, it is not just you who would take issue with the emojis, most posters on MN would take issue and have commented.

Okay. We've heard you.

Just a case of knowing when to STFU I suppose (not aimed at you, I just meant in general)

Oops that was to Venice, not jaydot!!
Cross posted

@Quaagars

I read that as white people who come on to argue about tone policing or sticking our opinions out on things we have no lived experience of. Not all white people everywhere.

Ah, ok. MMmm

Well, I am bloody angry that I can't post my point of view on this thread without being told (and, of course, that was aimed at me) to STFU. it might differ from yours but so what?

I suppose that is allowed? or am I letting the side down?

Tone police that one.

Typo thanked myself. But thank you posters. I stand by my post which was said to be a personal attack in defence of Dasterdly.

I'm leaving it there

@Quaagars I KNOW we were talking to the same person

@lovelymarie I have agreed with everything you've said. Especially; 'Learn to listen

I was about to post something but I've just received some devastating news and it's left my mind. I'll come back when my mind is straight. I'm just kinda on autopilot now

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt

I was about to post something but I've just received some devastating news and it's left my mind. I'll come back when my mind is straight. I'm just kinda on autopilot now

Sorry

The knowing when to just STFU and listen really wasn't aimed at you, I was aiming it at white people in general (I'm including myself in there!)

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt

I was about to post something but I've just received some devastating news and it's left my mind. I'll come back when my mind is straight. I'm just kinda on autopilot now

Hope you're OK

I'm fine. A friend is in the hospital. We thought it was her ex-partner that had found her and attacked her (history of DV) but thankfully she just had a panic attack and has been hospitalised. Sorry for that (I know it's not the right thread for it- just a quick update)- I just blanked out and over shared.

O gosh a panic attack itself can be really scary and horrendous. I hope everyone is ok xx

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt how would you think the best way to teach and discuss this subject would be? 😄

I think the Britain's role in this slave trade and the truth of colonialism (how many countries etc., the extent of financial gain from stolen, yes stolen raw materials and minerals, how these ill-gotten gains enriched this country and just how recent independence was gained for some of these countries) is necessary to explain why society is built to inherently favour white people and that racism is systemic. I think white privilege should be taught because it helps black students and those of colour to out a name to the things they know they experience and not to have them minimised and dismissed as non-valid.

I think teaching white privilege doesn't make white students feel guilty because they know that they have an advantage over someone else of a different colour in their exact circumstances. That is not their fault but it's an indictment on society not them. That they can use their privilege to call out behaviour that is not okay in a way that helps them dismantle the systems in place so we are not all passive but actively working towards equality and equity. It doesn't have to be some guilt ridden message like so many posters are saying. It means for once we will have a generation who is not just folding their hands and saying "I'm powerless against the system" while doing nothing to change it because it benefits them. And maybe it will teach all children empathy and to listen to each other. Pretending it doesn't exist to make the conversation palatable to white people and ease some sort of guilt they think black people are trying to put on them because of their "ancestors actions" is misguided and does nothing to change the status quo. Keeping quiet just pays lip service to change without doing anything and then people are surprised when massive protests erupt.

You could be right, but sadly for me you are too well spoken and use much better English that is completely beyond me really. You need to dumb it down a little for me please, I'm not quite up to scratch yet x

In terms of teaching about White Privilege (as a fact or theory) - I think it could be interesting to have a look at how Germany managed after WW11. Not the immediate aftermath but the 50s, 60s, 70 s and on. There must have been HUGE questions to be grappled with regarding who and what people were, did or did not do at the time. I imagine many a child asking many a parent/granparent difficult questions.
They must have come up with ways of teaching it while maintaining some sense of society. Does any one know?
They have also been very consistent about atoning to the Jewish population world wide. I don't think there has been a comprable recognition by Britan or America to Black people regarding slavery and racisim.

I think there could be a lot to learn from the Germans. By the way - I have no experience of Germany in anyway, am just thinking aloud as they say.

Am not sure how to express my thoughts - can anyone help me out?

@lotsatoast

Male privilege isn’t taught in schools so why should white privilege? Why tell another that they have less advantage because of the colour of their skin? Why should anyone be taught they’re inferior or superior because of the body they was born in and as a black person why on earth would you want to spread that message? 🤯

Do you believe male privilege exists?

Male privilege is also a fact, but I'm not sure whether I'd want that in a primary school lesson. I think people are quite naive if they think everything can be taught in school. For me, I want school to stay well away from sociology and politics - that includes feminism, white privilege, environmentalism, transgenderism, and all the other current buzz words. History is a good way to address these things, as it presents the facts of the occurrences, and a good teacher links that to the modern day without labouring the point. The same can occur by reading poetry or excerpts in an anthology - I learnt a lot about other cultures in our English lessons (although our teacher was Muslim which helped I think).

@Pluckedpencil schools already teach sociology and politics as subjects either separately or integrated in other subjects. For example I learnt about the concept of equality in primary school but it was age appropriate.

@Pluckedpencil oh - geography and science lessons also cover environmentalism. Both cover the green house effect, geography covers the damage caused by the exploitation of resources and science covers the misuse of chemicals leading to pollution.

I remember one of nephews being annoyed about a topic in geography being taught from a western environmentalist point of view ignoring the reasons why local people may use their resources in particular ways.

@bulldoz

You could be right, but sadly for me you are too well spoken and use much better English that is completely beyond me really. You need to dumb it down a little for me please, I'm not quite up to scratch yet x

Are you serious?!

I think your post is great @Dastardlythefriendlymutt and articulates it well. Especially this:

I think teaching white privilege doesn't make white students feel guilty because they know that they have an advantage over someone else of a different colour in their exact circumstances. That is not their fault but it's an indictment on society not them

It's silly to say that if we teach white children about this history that we should also make them feel guilty - it's about making them aware of the advantage that the history confers upon them.

(Sorry to hear about your friend - hope all is well soon)

@Pluckedpencil

Male privilege is also a fact, but I'm not sure whether I'd want that in a primary school lesson. I think people are quite naive if they think everything can be taught in school. For me, I want school to stay well away from sociology and politics - that includes feminism, white privilege, environmentalism, transgenderism, and all the other current buzz words. History is a good way to address these things, as it presents the facts of the occurrences, and a good teacher links that to the modern day without labouring the point. The same can occur by reading poetry or excerpts in an anthology - I learnt a lot about other cultures in our English lessons (although our teacher was Muslim which helped I think).

@Pluckedpencil

Schools have been teaching about these issues for years in their PHSE classes, which is part of the curriculum

I find it very difficult to understand why you wouldn't want them to be learning about them.

And calling feminism, white privilege, environmentalism and transgenderism 'buzz words' is massively insulting.