The PESH Deli - The one where Cheggers Goes Pop-Pop!

[skihorse]

BESH BABYWIN STATS

This isn?t a fucking list ? right?

BESH BAYBEES
dontrythisathome, Bay Amaryllis born March 25.

UPDIFFED
Cheggers, she won 2 baybees, due soon
Ponymum, the one with the worst hips, due mid June
CUNextTuesday, takes no shit from the Daily Mail, due June 28
IggyPiggy, The one who loves BUMSEX, due July 20
CurlyCasper, the ginger with the dodgy joints due July 21 (girl)
Skihorse, cradle snatching web geek, due July 22 (boy)
Carrots, organic hippy hunter, due July 25 (boy)
Cosmosis, the one that likes a good ride, due August 22
Pandora, She's got wings, due September 6
skatergrrrl, the one that overtook the rest, September ??
VAG, lives in De Nile, due 19 September
Honeymoo, puppy lover, due November 1
silversky, the biggest farter, due 21 October (first baybee)
okiecokie, self-confessed control freak, due November 6

Okiecokie I am so (temporarily) angry with your "but you absolutely must dahlink take 9, if not 12 months off" rhetoric. I have 4 months maternity leave - I cannot afford to take longer, who is going to pay the rent? The gubberment? To my knowledge, aside from the whole gay policemen on bicycles smoking weed outside the Anne Frank museum, Dutch kids do not grow up to be utter bastards. I do not feel it's necessary to spend 24/7 with my baybee to be a good mother. I will spend as much time with him as I can but I do not wish to be made to feel guilty for not being able to do the full year. Bully for you for your man just "having to accept his medieval bill-paying role".

Bit early for all of that eh? Slice of Brie anyone? Glass of cheeky red? Perhaps a lion-stamped raw egg?

Btw, silver between your farting and your arse-smokin' - I think we're all slightly afraid of you right now!

i'm confused as to why just menfolk would be scared of them carrying the can/not having another salary to rely on? I think it's daunting for us all to drop to one salary and the pressure is on both halves of each couple to be careful with the pennies. It's not like the man can go out and earn more to make up for the deficit (well, not in most jobs). And not like there's one less person out "hunting" so he has to bring back two bison instead of one! The other halves just have to keep their jobs and not piss their earnings up the wall. What more can they do?

Thankfully I have enough savings to get (with holidays) 10 months off. It would have been six otherwise. I earn a lot more than SFF, so we can't afford to lose my salary for too long. I'm sure if there was a way for him to man-up and bring in more money he would do it, but even a few hours casual labour/bar work would not be enough, and I'd rather he was here with me and the baby when he's not at work.

Everyone just has to work with what they can afford and what their employers allow. Many countries have much shorter maternity leave than we do in the UK.

Thanks for starting the thread ski. I was fast asleep by that point, after watching the last OBEM. I'm going to miss that programme

silver I saw your post over in the Palace about hayfever and thought I'd share. My actual havfever (usuaully v bad) has not kicked in yet, but I have had blocked sinuses since very early in pregnancy and I had a few weeks of awful body itching before 14 weeks. It went away! But I still sleep bunged up/snore/get sore throats/ and spend ages trying to clear nose in the morning. I am using Sterimar nasal spray to good effect during the day. My eyes have also been a bit itchy throughout diffed-ness, but not yet at proper hayfever level. I'm going to discuss taking Piriton with the docs. some say you can't have it when pregnant, others say you can. I just don't think I can be doing with these symptoms doubling.

So, my advice, see what your docs will give you, and investigate natural remedies - because it seems like pregnancy + hayfever = double hell. Sorry!

curly I agree with you 100% on that. I'd rather have my partner at home with me than pulling 15 hours a day to feel "manly". I think it was carrots who was back at work as a "single mum" 3 weeks post-partum - afaik Little Carrot is still alive. In the US 12 weeks unpaid is the norm - and an "if you're not back in 12 weeks don't bother" attitude prevails.

Like you, I earn far more than jailbait - he'd have to be pulling in around 90 hours a week to earn what I do. Way to make a new mum go menkul!

Wow, Silver! Your man has been revising! Ignoring the slight masochistic other thing he said, take this as a good sign - it means he is interested. My OH seems to lose interest in the bit between having lots of sex and then 9 months later showing off 'his' new baby to his mates at cricket. We used to live opposite the cricket pitch, and when we got home from hospital I was still struggling to get out of the car with my whopping CS scar and he was practically sprinting with the pram to get to his gooey eyed bloke-mates. This time round, due to disaster last time, he has commented he should maybe read one or two of the books I have. When he's finished the latest Terry Pratchett tome, of course!

As for how long you take off - tis up to you. However long you take off someone will say 'Oooh, I took 4 years/3 minutes (delete as appropriate) off work and my DC is fine.'

OH earns more than me, but then I do only work 50%. He'd still earn more though if I was full time. Unfortunately, due to my horsey and skiing habit and a desperate desire to have nothing to do with London combined with his absolute refusal to live in a place which is not umbilically connected to London for commuters, we have to live in practically the most expensive place in Britain (my neighbour on one side is Chris Tarrant, and on the other side the retired Director of a major multinational company - can't remember which one though.) Anyway - you have to be loaded to live heere, and sadly we are not exactly loaded. Meaning what ought to be generous salaries get completely eaten by the mortgage. But that's the choice we made, so tough on us.

I'll be going back when I feel like it. No specific timescales yet. But I will have to workfull time to make up for the lost cash I didn't get on maternity leave. Bummer.

Say no more pandy, say no more. My first bf's father taught alongside CT when he was living in a van parked outside the school gates, CT that is, not bf's father.

Mornings. Nice Fred.

Ski I don't live in a van! I live in a hovel. Obviously. (No really - English Heritage have it down as a good example of a 16th Century farm worker's hovel.) Now we do occasionally put visitors up in a caravan on the drive.

Ski don?t you fret about going back to work at 4 months. SIL went back at 3 with both of hers, and they are two of the most lovely children you will ever meet. And they went to a childminder, not looked after by their dad like Julian will be. It?s just another stick to beat people with that?s all.

Ski It was not my intention to make anyone feel guilty. Did I come across as a upper class snob there? I am certainly a northern working class type. All I was getting at was Silver's OH reaction. There was obviously some disparity between what 2 people had thought about time off. It has taken a lot for woman to be granted maternity leave of up to 1 year in the UK and all I was saying is if there was any way it could possibly taken it then they should be. Of course, everyone's situation is different and some can not take this time for financial reasons. I do know I was lucky that I was able to take 11 months off but the only way I was able to do this was through my (not my husband) saving like hell and spending naff all when I was off.

In fact, friends that have returned to work when their little ones were 3-4 months rather than 11 or 12 months have found it easier to leave them as they are so much more aware of being left when they are that bit older.

Thanks cossie. Tbh, I don't have the 'best' of mental health and if I were to be cabin-bound for 12 months we would have some ishoos. I can't spend more than 24 hours in the house without purpose... 12 months (for me) would be akin to torture.

Posting to anyone stressing about when to go back to work which seems to be everyone:

Aktoolee it was me who went back to work when LC was 3 weeks old, and I was still in disposable pants .

And anyone who does anything different is bad for the environment. Or something.

Ohhhh no matter what you do someone will have a stress about it but in the end, whose business is it but yours FFS? NOONE else is in exactly your financial or personal circumstances, nor has your tolerance (a lot or a little) for spending all day with baybees, so every situation is totally personal.

I did only go back for a few days a week to start with, and then after about 3 months I went back 4 days, which was my normal days BC. I loved that as even when LC was in full time nursery when he was - I dunno - about a year or something - I still had all the weekend plus Friday with him. I miss that now he's at school. I would have found being a full time single mother really hard, but doing it this time with YOB I'm feeling a lot happier about taking more time off.

(For those of you who don't know, I was married when I had LC but he didn't have anything to do with him so I was effectively a SM).

Children are ok or not ok not because of their babyhood childcare but because they have decent parents or not. (Was that grammatical?). 'Tis all that matters.

I only love my puppy. This is not a characteristic that defines my whole life y'know. I am quite boring about him I realise. He can now go down stairs as well as up which is an exciting new development in our house.

It can only be down to the individual agree, and to be fair to Cokie it would be brilliant if everyone could take the full year and make the most of our rights. But unless you do either save like mad or have a rich husbo it will be hard. As for me, am sort of thinking will try and get to 8 or 9 months by which time we will be existing on Oxo cubes and bread and sugar.

On that note, we've decided after much deliberation and playing with excel spreadsheets to 'get real' and not do the whole private birth option. (sorry Cokie, can I still share your mini bar?). £10K is a fklot of cash and frankly we could do keeping it for a whole host of other things we need/want.

So I'm now trying to decide what the hell to do next and which hospital would be best. The main thing I am really worried about is that I absolutely, definitely want an epidural as things kick off in the active phase and I am scared that for some reason I won't get one. People have said to me that mw's monitor your distress levels and they can tell if you need versus want one... which scares the living bejesus out of me.

I think we will still have private scans for the convenience and maybe think about an IMW/doula type person as well. No idea where to start looking though...

okie

"It has taken a lot for woman to be granted maternity leave of up to 1 year in the UK and all I was saying is if there was any way it could possibly taken it then they should be."

Oh you Northern Working Class Labour Supporter, you

I must say that I don't understand what you mean though. Do you mean that you think that people should take it because it's a hard-fought-for "right" or because it's better for babies, or something else?

Genuine question, I'm just trying to understand your POV.

honey why are you so keen to get an epi?

If you really are sure, just talk to your MW. AFAIK the main reasons they won't give you one is a) you're too far through labour or b) there's noone available to do it. You can't really do much about either of those. If you have one too early it would seriously interfere with your ability to labour and birth, but often if you really feel you can't carry on they'll let you have one even though it's likely to lead to a CS or forceps.

Your MW will no doubt want to give you all the pros and cons but in the end, while it's not your absolute right to have one, they should do all they can to give you what you want.

But if you have a clear idea of why, that would be useful to take to the table.

honey you'll just have to reveal a hell of a lot more about yourself before the next thread starts - Puppy was the only detail I could cling on to (and that's bacuse I have much publicised puppy envy!) Not boring at all.

(At least you hadn't just declared your farting status as silver did. She's stuck with that for 1001 posts now )

Meetings this morning then midwife at lunchtime. Hope I see her for more than two minutes this time. SFF is coming with me.

IMs are fab! I'm having one this time round, mainly due to lack of continuity of care last time round which I believe led to a number of things not being noticed - hence the mega-long labour!

I didn't have an epi, but still ended up with a CS. Strangely, I went into hospital with the idea that I would leap of the bed and run away from anyone who wanted to stick something in my back. I did a neuro-anatomy unit at university, and have seen how delicate the structures are in that part of the spine. Anyone with big needles can fuck off! Women have been giving birth long before epis were invented - if they could manage, so can I. That's just my opinion. If you want an epi, Moo, you go for it!

Just touching on the strong horse rider and dancer muscles, seeing as we are well endowed in that department (rider and dancer dept, not muscle-y dept ) I was reading a book by a midwife called Sheila Kitzinger, and she reckons it not the strength of the muscles that causes the problems, but the fact that riders and dancers are so used to having fine control over their bodies at all times that they find it difficult to let go of that control during labour. Could be something in that!

Going back to "rights" I would like to put across a POV as an employer.

While I am very keen for things to be reasonable and fair, I really find the imposition of terms on employers by this government to be overwhelming. For any employer to "have" to pay for an employee to chose to have babies seems unfair. The alternative argument seems to be that if they didn't, there wouldn't be enough babies born/people wouldn't spend enough time with them/society would collapse . Well, on the other (non-employer) side I strongly believe that "society" needs supporting, but at the moment there's a huge burden on employers to do that supporting.

The problem is that in the end it backfires on women of childbearing age. Many, many employers simply won't touch us - an experience I've had personally before doing what I do now.

There's no point in argueing that it's illegal to discriminate because in the real world, it happens, and there's nothing one can do about it

And from the employer's point of view, why employ someone who has a relatively high chance of wanting to take 6-12 months off with no idea whether they'll return, having to take on someone temporarily, or maybe permanently, who doesn't know whether it's temp or perm, and keeping them enthused about their job... nightmare.

Don't for a moment think that I would want to take away maternity "rights", because I wouldn't. Despite the problems it causes me, I still support them. But, I do want people to understand that companies are made of people all the way up - and "The Management" or the company owners (who are not necessarily rich...) find all that stuff really difficult.

I'm wondering if bike riding causes the same muscle issues.

Oh and honey I don't find puppies at all boring

pand Sheila Kitzinger is my hero

I'm gonna do some work now.

Oh cos forgot to say, I had a dream that you arrived into the forum on a wave of amniotic fluid, riding a bike . Very bizarre.

cokie I know what you mean about it being great that UK women have the "right" to 12 months, but at what cost? These boards are absolutely full of people saying they can't manage on SMP and are scrabbling around for tax credits. Is that really sensible?

carrots I've been with my current employer 9.5 years, I had a lot of interviews at that time where (rightly or wrongly!) I was asked if I had kids... if I intended to have kids, etc., etc.

Are you saying you're a control freak cossie?

When SMP was only 6 months this was not enough, now woman are entitled to 9 months SMP and can take 1 year and still have a job to go back to, all I am saying is it is there to take, so if you can take it and want to then it it your entitlement to - simple as.

Honey I agree, it is a hell of a lot of money to spend and I can't afford it but I am lucky to have a work health policy that covers private maternity care at 100%. I know we live in the same area and I choose St George's first time (NHS) and was more than happy with the care I received there - we needed the neonatal unit and it is fabulous. The post labour ward is a bit grim but most of them are. I have a friend that used a Doula (she gave birth at Thomas's) and I could send you her details if you like.

My SIL had her 3 at Chelsea and Westminster and again, no complaints. My only concern with C&W is the c-section rate is around 33% while St George's it is only 22%.

God you are lucky Cokie! That sounds great.
I'm thinking of choosing between St Thomas's and C&W units but no experience of either. When do they allow you to go and have a look, or do you have to wait for your booking in appointment I suppose? Would be great if you can send Doula details... Does she stay with you after the birth to help BF etc? If so, I guess it matters less about the post labour ward. I can get over dirty showers etc but it would be good to have instantly available help with baby IMO.

Panda and Carrots I can't even abide brazilian waxes (have to OD on ibuprofen and 2 glasses of chardonnay at a minimum. In fact have been semi pissed at most of my waxing appts come to think of it) so child birth is somewhat of a concern. I'd like an epi purely from a pain threshold perspective, but also don't wnat to get to the point where it's been 9 days before I am ready to push and therefore fking exhausted... It seems far more civilised to get as far along as you can into active birth and then have one particularly if things are going normally and at a decent rate. Although yes I appreciate forceps might end up being a reality... not sure which is the worse of two evils though.

Ooh new fred!

honey my GP gave the impression I could attend mat ward open days before deciding which hospital to commit to. I didn't bother and plumped for C&W on the basis that it's closest to my house MW appts to date have been fine and hospital seems nice enough...and there is a Carluccio's opposite!

Just back from my 16 week mw appt - they dind't listen for a heartbeat. Boo - I was looking forward to that! They said it's cos at 16 weeks it is hard to hear and women get upset/worried if they aren't able to hear it. I did feel a bit like saying "but I heard it at 6 weeks fgs!". Oh well. May consider doppler. Just have to assume everything is going to plan, just like Dr Evil.