~~August 2010~~ tummies blooming into bumps

[CherryPie3]

5th thread come grab a bean bag, theres a cake table in the corner (feel free to help yourselves)

Just nipping on for a quick comment on the afternoon's controversial issues .

On the gender selection thing, I don't really have a view, I don't think - certainly not a strong one. However, I thought I'd let you know that the Guardian ran a big feature on gender selection on Saturday, which I'm sure is available on its website. I didn't read it in detail, but I did establish that you can have it done in the states, and it costs about 30 grand . Quite enough reason for us to rule it out, quite apart from any moral questions .

On the abortion front, I just have to comment that I do support abortion until 24 weeks (a little wary of being flamed, but I thought someone ought to put the point of view). For two reasons, really - partly that I think the objections to it are often sentimental rather than rational (a baby is just as much a baby at 12 weeks as 24, even though you can't feel it kick), and partly because there are actually incredibly few late abortions that are performed 'lightly' (at least in this country, where things are well regulated) - they are almost always carried out either because of very good medical reasons, or because the mother has very serious social or psychological issues (e.g. a 12 year old girl who has only just been able to accept the fact that she is pregnant). For me, if you support abortion at all, then it makes rational sense to support it all the way to viability (which is controversial in itself, because the viability date will only get earlier and earlier due to medical advances). Funnily enough, having a child has only strengthened my pro-choice beliefs - because I now realise just what a massive and life-changing experience/responsibility it is to have a child (to give birth to one, not just to bring one up), and I think abortion is a hugely important right to retain.

Sorry for the serious post. Big congrats to Lilypad!

hi all,

mrszac- we have a bugaboo bee, cant say what its like from newborn because we got it when our ds was about 18months old, its very easy to push though & easy to fold & very lightweight, this time we are using it again with the baby nest you can get for newborns.

RE gender selection, It also seems a bit wrong to me, have never actually thought properly about it though, also agree that the abortion limit should be 12 weeks.

Hi everyone - gosh we're serious today!! ( - sorry)

£30 grand Elusive???? Crikey! Do they put you up in the Four Seasons penthouse for that!

Lily - one of the gender selection methods is IVF so that will clearly have all the same risks. I think there is also sperm washing which is a slightly lower success rate (success being getting the sex of your choice) about which I know nothing in terms of risks to the baby - I haven't done any research it was really just a waiting for the bus talking baby nonsense conversation. I might have a little look at the article in the Guardian though. It's interesting when you think how attitudes to IVF have changed in the last 30 years to wonder where we may be 30 years from now.

Really wishing I had those trainers now - such a lovely evening after quite a grey day. Hope you all enjoy it.

Hi everyone, sorry I've not popped in today. So busy! I'm generally against gender selection (I think it places the emphasis upon the sex and gender-related expectations rather than the child as an individual. I'm probably rather conservative on the abortion issue. I don't think it should be allowed except for medical reasons (but I'd include the mother's mental health in this, so as to include cases of rape/ incest, etc...). Maybe this is because I was brouht up a catholic? I don't know..... But then again I'd be upset by lots of 'unfit' parents having babies they don't really want.

Oh and I'm only here because I'm too upset to work because we just had a 'run in' with our next door neighbours. Posted the details on AIBU and can't be bothered to type again, as I'm still having a bit of a sob!

Sorry I've been a bit rubbish with congratulating newbies/ scan results/ generally being supportive to everyone else. I swear once my big presentation/review is over on May 12th I'll be much much better. Also a bit sad because my MIL (who's just great) is away for 10 days now, which is going to be stressful because of all the work I have. I'm really pleased they're away as they're meeting my BIL and SIL on the final leg of their round the world trip, but still feeling a touch selfish!

Hello everyone, especially our new members

I'm feeling properly fat today, appear to be developing a moonface - must cut down on the cakes .

Girls I was on the ELCS thread as well, just read it back again and can see that the OP was being very touchy. I'm in a similar situation to that OP (tricky first VB leading to ELCS decision). It's a hard choice to make and can leave you feeling sad, a bit of a failure and quite prickly to any perceived criticism. I thought you were very brave to come back again to it as you were being treated rudely when you didn't deserve it. Hope you're over it, wouldn't worry about them m'dear!

Aussie I don't think that sex selection is a great idea, I've always thought that people should be happy with the baby they get, whatever sex. It can lead to massive gender imbalances as well when it's practiced on a wide-enough scale.

And while we're being serious, I'm very much pro a woman's right to choose - and up to 24 weeks - but I feel sad that so many abortions are carried out in a day and age when there are so many contraceptive choices available. Surely some of the unwanted pregnancies that are terminated could have been avoided in the first place? I may be being naive here though.

Right, off to cook a healthy dinner - with no dessert!

Evening all! Well boy you can tell I've had two weeks of regular resting and sitting down and next to no physical activity. I'm knackered! Bump has felt incredibly heavy all day and I'm so aware this is only going to get worse, I'm sat down finally (got in at 5.30 tonight, quite late!) and I have achy pains going down my ribs and bump, tired. I hope its a one off day like this, otherwise I suppose I'll have to invest in one of those support band thingys to take the weight of her! Despite my moaning though its wasn't a bad day in work, productive and kids all lovely and on form. I can see this term being the longest of my career so far though with the increasing tiredness, fatness, waddling etc!

Another new welcome to Burkoid - we've had a sudden influx of newbies this weekend! How many babies does that take us up to Cherry master of lists?! Haha! Boy/Girl/Surprise Ratio?

Its been very serious discussion in here today ladies! For me personally abortion would absolutely never be an option, a life is a life at any stage of pregnancy in my opinion and I could never live with the guilt of killing my baby, whatever the gestation. However I understand the need for legalised abortion and women needing this choice, but not the 24 weeks as it is now!

We didn't have the triple test because whatever the results I wouldn't have risked a miscarriage with a invasive procedure, and having a disabled baby to me wouldn't matter a jot to how much I would love it. I wouldn't have aborted. Maybe my job has influenced my views somewhat more on this issue but a disabled child is still a child entitled to love and life, even if it is a short one. These children bring just as much joy to their parents are 'normal' children do (I hate that term!). Yes it is harder work to raise a child with significant difficulties but that child is a human life with as much worth as any other human life. It is a sensitve issue to me people choosing to abort on the grounds of disability,. But that is definately because of the nature of my job, and my heart goes out to anyone who has made that heartbreaking decision, it must be an awful place to be in.

I know the majority of women don't take abortion lightly, especially those choosing to have later abortions, however I often think it tragic where someone is aborting at 24 weeks and actively ending the life of their baby and in another room somewhere in the hospital Dr's are fighting to save the life of a baby who is premature and parents willing their child to live. And for this reason I also agree that 24 weeks is far far too late. I agree with all those who said 12 weeks, or maybe up until the nuchal test (is that a limit of 16 weeks?) if you choose to have it would be a more reasonable limit.

With gender selection I agree with those who said it is only a step away from choosing hair eye colour etc. The idea of it makes me uncomfortable and against nature. As this baby is a girl I would 'like' a boy next time to have one of each, but I'd be equally as thrilled with another girl. The same if this had been a boy. The precious little life is what really counts, not what gender it happens to be.

Anyway sorry for the super-long essay, hadn't realised I'd gone on quite so much! Might get DH to run me a bath in a bit and see if that can sooth my aches.

Totally agree with cakey regaring the contraception. I don't think you're being naive, I think is sad too when often that awful decision could be avoided by just being sensible in the first place!

Phew, we're weighty today ladies.

Re the legalised abortion limit - I think 12 weeks is far too early as I do know someone who didn't know she was pregnant until 18 weeks and as I think its a massive responsibility to have a child, I think its important that there is a 'lifestyle' option there, particualrly for younger girls, who might not face up to or realise they are pregnant until the second trimester. Having said that and having had a 3 week wait for the triple test results between 16-19 weeks, I was super anxious at the 19 week mark as that was the stage where I personally couldn't have terminated if any abnormalities had shown up - whereas, I would have terminated decisively anywhere up until a few weeks after the 12 week scan. But hey, its a tremendously personal issue but ethically, even with medical advances, 22 weeks probably seems about right to me.

Can I admit that I'm a bit ambivalent about gender selection beacause its not something I'd be fussed about, as much as I currently like the idea of one of each? I'm clueless as to what it might involve but if it was possible to do some sort of pre-screening at the point of conception (like a colour selection ovulation kit!...see I really didn't do much biology at school..), then fair enough. However, as much as I missed biology, I did do geography at uni for a bit, and if such a test was widely available globally, there is a very real danger of a global population imbalance in the favour of males so there is an ethicaly question mark over making it available for non medical reasons. But no big sticks or judgement calls from me if anyone had the cash and was desperately keen to do it.

Now, red velvet cake, there's a real treat of a cake...

I have never had red velvet cake, i feel as if i've missed out somewhere...Have just finished off the dairy milk from the fridge though

Blimey, I imagine this is one of the most calm and considered abortion debates that MN has ever seen .

Off to bed - waaaay past my bed time, but I've just been watching a film (The Prestige - really enjoyed it).

Just thought I'd pop on to say sorry, I was being very lazy in not looking up a link for that gender selection article I mentioned earlier. Anyway, here it is.

Good Morning

I agree that the 'debate' was so calm and collected that it's almost not typical mumsnet. Thats how it should be tho - an exchange of views and opinions and everyone understanding other peoples views and opinions. I'm very proud of us

Ok, who asked for a list update? Well, I did one - current count will show below. Next to everyones name that didn't have 'boy' or 'girls' I have typed 'surprise'. I will of course update it if I missed you out, and of course I know some people have not had their 20wk scans yet and I will update the list as the results come in. Is that ok? If you don't like it I could change it back? It just made it easier to count everyone.

So here it is...

LIST
20 July - Aussie #1, Nottingham, 35 20 weeks scan all good BOY
22 July - 4 Aug) Chulita #2: Dorset, 27. 20 week scan all good SURPRISE
25 July - Emster #1, Walthamstow, 29, 20 week scan all fine, SURPRISE
26 July - Rubetube #? SURPRISE
29 July - BouncingBlueberries #2 South London, 33 20 week scan all good SURPRISE
29 July - CherryPie3, #3, West Yorkshire, Age 25, 20wk scan fine. SURPRISE
31 July - Missus84, #1, Bristol. Age 26 - 20wk scan fine BOY
1 Aug - Nikalah, #1, Dorset. Age 35 20wk scan fine GIRL
2 Aug - Dibbydab, #1, Devon. Age 34 - 12 wk scan/nuchal fine. SURPRISE
3 Aug - carolondon #1 North London age 37, 20 wk scan fine. BOY
4 Aug - girlyearapart #3 kingston Hospital Age 30 - 12 wk scan fine. SURPRISE
4 Aug - kcoffin #3. SURPRISE
4 Aug - CarterM #1, Solihull, 36 SURPRISE
4 Aug - FireOpal #1 SURPRISE
4 Aug - AnnaAndBump, #1 SURPRISE
5 Aug - Kanella, 1, Plymouth. Age 37- 20 week scan good SURPRISE
6 Aug - YummymummyKJulie, #1, NW London 12wk scan fine, SURPRISE
7 Aug - NichyNoo, #1. Brussels. Age 29 - 20 wk scans fine BOY
7 Aug ? CazEm #1 Newport. Age 25 ? 20 wk scans fine - GIRL
7 Aug - Weehector #1, Largs. Age 36. 20 week scans fine. BOY
8 Aug ? ElusiveMoose #2 Kent 33 20wk scan fine BOY
8 Aug - driedapricots #2 surrey. aged 34 - 12 week scan fine, SURPRISE
9 Aug ? Alice #2 Suffolk age 25 20wk scan fine BOY
9 Aug - possiblenewmum #1, Guildford, age 31 - 20wk scan fine - GIRL
9 Aug - thecoffeelady #2, Fleet, Hants, age 32 20 wk scan fine SURPRISE
10 Aug - SassaB #? SURPRISE
10 Aug ? SayAnything #1, Brussels, age 33 ? 20wk scans fine BOY
10 Aug - Ruky786, #? age 32, SURPRISE
11 Aug ? CellyD #1, Walthamstowe, 20wk scan fine SURPRISE
11 Aug ? MommyDoylee #2, Colchester, age 23, 12wk scan fine, SURPRISE
12 Aug - bluecheesefiend #1, 15wk scan fine SURPRISE
12 Aug - tunise, #4, Suffolk, age 31. 20wk scan GIRL
13 Aug ? Neenz #3 Liverpool (32) - 12wk scan fine, 20wk scan fine SURPRISE
13 Aug - augustsun, #2, South London, 34, SURPRISE
13 Aug ? babyisaac, #2, North Yorkshire 35, SURPRISE
14 Aug - Burkoid, #2 20wk scan today! SURPRISE (up to now)
14 Aug - LCRLCR #1, Brighton, age 34, SURPRISE
14 Aug ? babyducky #2, Brighton, age 24, 20 week scan fine. SURPRISE
15 Aug - Plant #2 Kent, SURPRISE
15 Aug ? LizzieA #1 Wirral, 33, scan ok BOY
16 Aug - parkgirl #1, 20wk scan fine - GIRL
16 Aug - Tah2 #3, South Wales. SURPRISE
16 Aug ? cakeywakey, #2, age 32, 20wk scan fine GIRL
16 Aug - Vix206 #1, Leicester, 31, 20 wk scan fine BOY
17 Aug ? Lovesaruby #3 Essex, age 32, SURPRISE
17 Aug - Doodleydoo #2 Kent still just 34, SURPRISE
18 Aug ? Isheisnthe #3 Camberley, FPH, Age 33, SURPRISE
19 Aug - marzipananimal #1, York, age 23 - 20wk scan fine SURPRISE
19 Aug ? Bubbabear #?, Reading/Berks, SURPRISE
21 Aug - loobyt #2, age 34, Devon, 12 week scan fine, SURPRISE
22 Aug ? Cosmosis #1, West Yorks, Age 35, 12 week scan fine, SURPRISE
24 Aug - growningbump2, #2, age 25, Dunfermline, SURPRISE
24 Aug - Hattieboomboom, #?, age 32, South London, SURPRISE
24 Aug - HelenaCC #1, Manchester, age 31, SURPRISE
24 Aug ? JaysFourth #4, age 38, GIRL
24 Aug ? LeeKerry #3 Edinburgh Age 31
25 Aug - Sam86 #2 Liverpool, GIRL
25 Aug ? aendr #2, Huntingdonshire, 33, GIRL
25 Aug - Soontobefatnat #1 SE London Age 30 12 week scan fine, SURPRISE
25 Aug - Joey30, #1, Halifax - West Yorkshire, age 30. 12 wk scan fine, SURPRISE
26 Aug - pamplem0usse, age 25, #1, Herts 12 week scan/nuchal fine SURPRISE
26 Aug ? drcaroline #2, age 32, Hove, 12 week scan/nuchal fine, SURPRISE
27 Aug - Jamiki #3, SURPRISE
29 Aug - starshaker #2 & 3 Ayrshire Age 29 12 week scan fine TWINS
29 Aug - LilyPad72 #1, age 37, Berkshire, 20wk scan fine BOY
29 Aug - Hildainstant #1, Sunderland, age 30, SURPRISE
29 Aug ? FoxyJBro #3, Shropshire, age 30, 12 week scan/nuchal fine SURPRISE
30 Aug - Sparkle #1, age 31 12 week scan/nuchal fine - SURPRISE
31 Aug ? vitapulchra, #4, Guernsey, 32, 12-wk scan fine, SURPRISE
1 Sept - mrsZaC, #1, Glasgow, age 26 - 20wk scan 16/4/10, SURPRISE
8 Sept ? ronx, #2, NW London, 37 12-wk scan fine, SURPRISE

BOYS ? 11
GIRLS ? 9
SURPRISES ? 52 (up to now)

TOTAL BABIES - 72 (that is...if my countings correct )

whats red velvet cake btw?

Cherry Red velvet cake = a rich red cake with cream cheese frosting. Completely indulgent in an American Sex in the City/Magnolia Bakery kind of way. According to Gwen Rankin (what a great book btw, thanks for the tip) we need mothered too just after birth and this is probably what I'd like to see most in the post birth surprise food hamper...aoong with the brie, the parma ham, the champagne...

For a recipe, see www.hummingbirdbakery.com/bakingtips.pdf

Morning all! Just had 2 hot cross buns for breakfast (why can't I just eat 1?!).

That got me wondering if anyone is having cravings yet? People keep asking me. To be honest I've had none - anyone else had any? (I was hoping for pickled onions as we still have 3 jars left over from Christmas!!)

well thought we would have a lighter start to the day than yesterday

No cravings at the moment. Started off with orange juice (which has continued) and apples..then moved on to proper Italian ice-cream and Tangfantastics via a brief obsession with the aforementioned pickled onions. My other craving issue seemed to be that I was highly suggestible - whenever someone mentioned something remotely appetising, I wanted that very thing there and then.

I'm eating really well just now actually - only complaint is that I think my tastebuds are operating at about 85%, slightly spoiling my normally rampant foodiness. Probably linked to the permanently stuffed up nose I've had from the start too.

Morning all - I'm going to read everyone's comments from yesterdays debate more fully whilst having my decaf cappucino. MN has so many informed people on here, its a shame so many of the discussions descend into slanging matches. Given our stage of pregnancy we all have good reason to have some quite personal views on abortion but you have put them forward reasonably and respectfully. I've never had strong views on abortion - at 26 weeks now I would tend to be persuaded towards the view that 24 weeks is too late but it has taken being pregnant (albeit of wanting this baby very much) for me to come to even that leaning. Nevertheless I can imagine that there are many areas on MN were even not having strong views I would find reading a debate upsetting. It is the entrenchment of so many in their views and the complete lack of willingness to take other POV's on board or even treat them respectfully - even when you don't have strong views yourself that is quite objectionable to read.

Thanks for the link Elusive - i will ponder that over afternoon tea I'm still undecided on the gender selection front. I don't think it is something we would ever do but my DH is challenging me (just in a devil's advocate sort of way) to come up with a "rational" reason and I can't. It's all very much gut instinct which I am willing to accept is probably just pre-conditioning. In principle I can find no basis for moral objections.

Anyhoo - bought a one way bus ticket today and packed some comfy shoes for the walk home. Thought I might persuade DH to joining me at a pub beer garden about 2/3 of the way home

my cravings here are fruit - especially apples and pineapple, and creme eggs

tropical fruit juice also

Thanks for the explanation on the cake weehector, no sure it sounds like my cup of tea tho. Cheese and cake just doesn't sound right to me. Could just be me tho...

Oh andI've got a lovely stuffy nose as well - one of the lovelier side effects of pregnancy

Good on you Aussie for packing the walking shoes , reckon your dh might just meet you at that beer garden you know....

I don't have any actual cravings either, just easily suggestable! With DD i started craving ice at about 30weeks, and had to constantly have ice lollies in the house. We have actually got an ice maker on our fridge now though which is very exciting

This morning, the baby was moving so much i could see my tummy moving. Actually see it!

My oh my! Missed all the sensible debate yesterday - had to work late Lugged my laptop all the way home to work on a project and really suffered for it - can't remember who else had an aching bump last night, but me too ouch ouch ouch!

Anyway, the poop is hitting the fan at work today, so not sure I'll have much time to pop on here but hopefully working from home tomorrow so will have more time

Hope everyone has a lovely day! Glad to hear you packed your comfy shoes today aussie Off to loo at Fit Flops at lunchtime - the ones I ordered yesterday are out of stock. Boo!

Oooh I wanna try that cake!

I've also been craving fruit & anything icy! Very jealous of your ice maker alice!!

Alice we don't have an ice maker - just a water cooler on the door of our fridge. Got to admit tho, I'm loving the smart price flavoured oce lollies at the moment - can see them becoming essential when the warm weather really sets in!!

Blueberries Poop hitting the fan eh? I hope you have a good day and not too stressful or anything.

weehector I read your post and just had to go get some orange juice from the vending machine!!!! Talk about suggestible cravings

WHat is all the snotty nose stuff about? Have had it for months, now. Is v boring. Making me feel out of breath, and apparently am now snoring (which I think is just funny as is revenge for years of having listened to DH's efforts on that front... )

Would like 3 cheers for Mothercare, if anyone cares to join me? Have found some jeans that actually feel like ME, not like someone else - they are nice and dark, they fit, and don't make my legs feel like elephant leg/tree trunks. Everything in the garden now rosy.

Fit flops are fab - looking forward to get back into mine when it's just a bit warmer. But going to the loo in them, blueberries? Well - each to their own, I suppose...

Hello! DH is finally back at work and my parents were down for a couple of days and they've just left (double ) so now I'll be back on mn a bit more
I've had a snotty nose too since about 8 weeks pg, very boring.
I'm on the suggestible cravings too, although I've been wanting ham, ham and more ham for about the last 2 months. Recently I've been devouring fresh salads which is making up for the incredible amount of crisps I ate in the first few months
I really need to get some warm weather trousers, jeans aren't going to cut it and I'm not sure anyone will want to see my legs in a skirt come july!

people keep asking me about cravings too but I haven't had any yet, just been very hungry for mainly savoury food (although I've been getting back into sweet stuff over the last few weeks )

Does anyone know whether it's safe to eat cheese like camembert or goat's cheese if it's been deep fried or grilled?

Why does pg give you a snotty nose? I normally have one (lots of allergies and susceptible to colds) so hadn't noticed any difference but maybe some of it is pg related.