December 08 - a few babies under the tree still need unwrapping!

[EffiePerine]

New thread ladies. I have a feeling I will be talking to myself a lot

Oh and a friend who lives in the middle of nowhere. Nearest city is Brisbane and that is about 4 hours away.

Hi bisou next time you do a list can you add Joscelyn's birth weight, it was 6lb 13oz. Thanks .. also cant believe you are suffering the extremes of heat at the moment when we are suffering from the extremes of cold .. not got above freezing all day here in birmingham! xx

afternoon all, after a reasonable night we're having a rubbish day. Ds2 will not sleep unless being held, as soon as I put him down he wakes up. He doesn't want to go on his mat, in his chair or the carrier. Plus ds1 doesn't want to go out because its too cold so we're all going a bit stir crazy. I don't think I've spoken to another adult apart from dh in 2 days now.

Sorry for the me post, I just needed to get this off my chest, its left me crying with frustration & feeling crap

Hope everyone else is having a better time, I'll catch up properly

Rosmerta...I wish I could come and see you. I think you need someone to visit you and make you a cup of tea. Well, I am sending you virtual tea and real sympathy (or coffee, personally I can't stand tea). I have said it before but I don't know how those of you with two kids are holding it together - a newborn leaves not a lot of spare time for anything much else. And I know how time consuming all the bottle washing and sterilising is. Is there anyone who can pop over and give you a little visit or a little break? Well, thinking of you, anyway. It won't be this tough forever so hang in there.

Aaaaw Rosmerta, sorry you are having a bad day. I hope ds2 has settled by now. It is sooo hard balancing the needs of two.

I am having a bit of a shakey moment about my mothering and DD1. Basically DD1 is a lovely child, but she is 2.4 so very defiant and stubborn. Since DD2 arrived, DD1's behaviour may have become a little worse but at the same time I have become alot less tolerant. I just don't have time to reason with her over every little thing. I don't have the spare hands to run after her when she refuses to get in the car etc. As a result I am shouting alot more and I realise I am beginning to view her as "the difficult one" which is awful as she is not difficult she is just a two year old. Today she is with her nanny and I was mortified when I realised I had been counting the days to the nanny's return. She was my world just a few weeks back, how sad for her that things have changed do much.

Hi just wanted to send hugs to rosmerta its easy to feel very lonely when you are having a bad day xxxxx

arti i generally feel like i am turning into the mother from Malcolm in The Middle, with the level of shouting increasing, the more children i have the louder and less tolerant i become. I also think that this time will pass so quickly and soon your dd2 will be causing you as much mischief as dd1, or as my ds1 and ds2 like to do - join together and cause mass chaos!!

Arti, Rose [hugs] my lovelies we are all doing supremely well. It is bloody hard work and we have to keep thinking this too will pass. I too have become very shouty today and DS2 will sleep nowhere except on me so I feel I have achieved nothing. Keep going three cheers for us all.

hi penny which office did you send the documents for application for citizenship by decent to? and also, i found on the website that i can use a British citizen to verify identity, sice we live overseas - is that what you did? how long until you got it back and can i make appointment for passport online? sorry for all the questions! you were good to get that organised so fast!
rosmerta and arti hope u are feeling better soon

Hi all!
Congrats to emmanbump!

Sorry to rosmerta and arti, I cannot imagine how much hard work it is having two! I am still having shit nights, last night DS woke up at 1:30 having gone to sleep at 11:15ish, so far so good. I got him back to sleep at 3, which is better than normal, but instead of doing his usual sleeping for 3 hrs, he woke at 4, and proceeded to wake every half hour after that. Grrr....he was quite easy to get back to bed last night, so I need to combine that with the 3 hrs asleep between times, and I will be sorted. Maybe tonight will be the night!

I am not with you all on the "Dh sleeps through anything, but I can't thing". I am so tired I can now sleep through DSses gripey noises, I only awake when he properly screams!! But poor DH didn't sleep at all last night, in the end I sent him to sleep in the other room.

Thanks for reassurance on cs recovery everyone. Pretty sure I am normal, discomfort has been getting better continually, I was sore last night due to going to town for a couple of hours, but better today.

re contraception, jj you mentioned that the pill destroys your sex drive, I had that and the doctor put me on lo-estrogen pill or something that was better. So you might find the mini-pill wouldn't have this effect (only one you can take while bfing anyway) as it is progestorone (sorry dunno how to spell it!) only. Just a thought.

Also LadyT why are you against the coil? As my mum had a bad experience with it, but I have heard that it is much better these days...so if you have heard bad stories might be worth researching anyway? if you just don't like the thought of it then guess it isn't the answer (I don't particularly like the thought of it either).

Oh another question? Do stretch marks fade? how long does this take? As mine are bloody awful!!

Thanks everyone, have had a little cry on dh & feeling a bit better. Plus you have all helped of course! I think sometimes, especially if you're on your own, you forget that there are other mums going through exactly the same.

Am going to be much more positive from now on & aim to get out every day. I've emailed my NCT postnatal co-ordinator and offered to be a host for 2nd time mums so at least I'll have a set coffee morning each week!

arti hugs to you too, I feel sorry for ds1 as well, he always wants my attention when I'm busy with ds2 and find I lose my patience with him so much quicker.

jam I've decided that I'll do what I can when ds2 will consent to be put down & sod it the rest of the time!

Congratulations emma, hope you're all well!

Anyway, both ds's are asleep so am going to have some tea & go to bed early.

Here's to a good night for us all

hello all!

well I managed to get Lucy to school on time! She seemed to enjoy her first day...she's not giving much away about what she did there but she's 4 and I'm sure she'll reveal things in her own time!
Anyway, while she was in school, DH and i went out for lunch because today is my birthday, and it was lovely. Phoebe woke up so i had to feed her half way through my meal, but i'm getting used to eating with one hand whilst BFing!

Question - could my periods have come back this soon? (not yet 4 weeks). my bleeding had basically stopped and turned into browny yellow discharge, but today i've had belly ache and it's back to bright red again. is that normal?

verso - there are anti-Ds you can take while BFing - I'm on citalopram and BFing. The sooner you get them into your system the sooner you'll start to feel better. With your history I would talk it over with someone - gp/hv - whoever is more supportive. The up and down is normal but if you're wondering about pnd, having been there before yourself, i think i'd go with your instinct. you are doing AMAZINGLY WELL and must not see yourself as failing.

kayz - yorkshire meet-up sounds good to me...

hello all. My DD was back at school today too and I felt it a huge achievement just getting her there on time. She lost her first tooth yesterday (somewhat prematurely-she was tugging a facecloth with her brother in the bath and all of a sudden there was a tooth hanging out at right angles, lots of blood and a hysterical 5 year old)and was more proud of the missing tooth than the new brother.

Am finding having 3 children HARD work-am very behind on the thread so will read it now while kids are all asleep, but wanted to say congratulations to Effie,Turnip, Oli and Emma.

Happy Birthday Trace We will have to organise a Yorkshire meet-up soon.

I am really dreading tonight, I hope he will settle ok as it was just exhausting last night.

Here's to good nights for us all.

I've put some more pics on my profile...!

DH goes back to work tomorrow - half of me is nervous about the school run and managing on my own, and the other half is quite keen to just 'get on with it' get into the awing of things as they are going to be!

verso - forgot to day re sleeping on their fronts - I just place Phoebe belly down and she tends to bring her knees up herself. I try to put her arms up by her shoulders like Veggie said, and make sure her face is turned to the side. She actually can move her head around and often lifts it to face the other way, so I feel happy to leave her like that while I'm asleep because I know she can move her head. Also as she's so sicky, I feel happier that she will puke it all out rather than choke on it. Plus she settles and sleeps much better like that. Last night she did a 4 hour stint and a 3 hour stint, which is a vast improvement on her usual 2 hours. Probably go pear shaped tonight! Anyway - having said all that it is against the guidelines, so I guess you have to follow your instinct. DH and I have agreed together that we are happy to sleep her belly down - that way it's not a decision that only one of us has made and that could be the cause of blame if the dreaded worst were to happen. I know that sounds morbid but I need that reassurance.

right. time for a bowl of cereal and bed. Still struggling with the appetite but I'm trying to force down something before bed instead of just missing tea altogether! Have bought some Frosties especially to tempt myself!

I meant 'swing' not 'awing' and 'say' not 'day'

Trace Your girls are gorgeous!! DD1 looks great in her uniform.

thanks kayz! she's so grown up!

So sorry to all of you ladies haing tough nights - if I lose more than 2 hours of sleep I am a complete nightmare the next day so all I have is admiration for those coping on a lot less than that, plus the stress of a screaming baby to boot - I am in awe of you all. DS has his screamy moments and DP moans about what a nightmare it is - I just tell him that there are couples on here struggling with seriously unsettled babies and that he should be grateful that we are having a comparatively easy time.

penny I have expressed quite a bit (but then I had to initially as BF didn't work out until day 10). I just expressed in the morining after shower (just took half from each side in between feeds). It worked a treat and is well worth it for a break.

Verso is there any way you could express and ask DH to do a feed to give you a rest ? If he refuses to do a night feed how about the pre-bed feed and you could sneak off to bed early and have some undisturned sleep before the night-fun begins ?... I really feel for you with your PND fears and your confusion over whether to continue with BF. If BF is one thing that makes you feel positive it may be a bad thing giving it up as you may end up feeling worse/guilty if you give up. I defo don't have PND (although had some very dark days during the 3 week growth spurt) but felt so bad when BF didn't work out initially that I can see how it could make you feel even worse if you are feeling low. On the other hand I take your point about how it may help to share the load a bit, there is no doubt that there is a lot of additional pressure on us ladies that are BFing as we are solely responsible for feeding (esp night feeds). Oh and fwiw you are most definitely NOT a failure, it sounds like you are doing a great job given how unsettled your LO is (and you can see from this thread that it is just the luck of the draw if you have an unsettled baby as there are quite a few on here..) - sending you virtual {{{hugs}}} xx

SL I think it depends on the individual, type of stitches and how traumatic birth was prior to CS (in non-elective cases). At 3 weeks I was walking for hours at a time but my friend who had a CS a few weeks before me was unable to walk to the end of the street at 3 weeks. Take your time and only do what your body is ready for - it takes time but all will be back to normal soon.

LT and other CS ladies - when does the overhang go ?... OMG I am so fed up with my body - every time I look in the mirror I just see this hideous flap hanging over my scar eeuughhhh . I tried on my non-mat jeans the other day - BIG MISTAKE - they barely got past my bum (and these were my fat jeans) . Later the same day DP told me I was looking well and that my jeans fitted me really well - cue floods of tears from me and a blubbed "these are bl00dy maternity jeans I'd flipping hope they fit my no longer pregnant body"...boooohoooo ! Unfortunate timing on his part !

rosmerta {{{hugs}}} for you too missus, sounds like a very rough day .

arti your story about DD1 just brought a wee tear to my eye - I have no idea how any of you with a toddler and a newborn are coping - unbelievable ! and those who are able to leave the house with 2 (or more) DCs - WOW !! If it weren't for DP nagging me to go out I'd be holed up in here 24/7 . I am startingt to feel like BF is holding me back as can't consider leaving the house unless I'm sure I'll be home for the next feed - why can't I just be one of those ladies that whip them out any old place...

On the subject of happy stories, when DS gives me a big gummy smile I just melt. He does it randomly (usually when sleepy) so he is probably peeing or pumping, but I like to think he is giving me a big grin

Happy Birthday trace and your DDs are gorgeous

I have got a rash on my hands and I have just done the self help guide on NHS direct it says it could be measles.

My mum says I have had the jab as a child. But it is really dangerous in newborns. I have rung the out of hours GP and they are going to ring back.

I am really worried now

Kayz hope everything ok. Measles usually starts on your chest and tummy so if it's only on your hands could just be a reaction to something

Penny take the picture for the passport yourself when LC is awake and looking alert just lay them on a White towel or sheet. Then take you digital camera to a photo shop like happy snaps there is one on the strand near Australia house and they will print them out to the specification of both psssports they know what each requires. We managed to get a good shot of jordy today, and DH sent the citizenship papers off. I like to get their citizenship and Australian passport before the British one I don't know why but makes me feel they are more Aussie that way.

Bisou we will be coming back in early 2010 so keep on touch and one day we can have our own meet up. We have already decided we will plan our flight around going on an A380. We are also going to do a trip to Toulouse before we go home to the place where they make them. I was never a big plane person but ds1s love of them has rubbed off on dh & I.

Arti I'm missing my old ds1 too he seem so different now and not all mine anymore. I also feel that all I ever do is tell him off and snap at him. Once my mum goes home and we settle back into some sort of routine with him going back to nursery hopefully things will improve. For now he has loads of attention from his nanna and his dad as dh is still working from home. He was supposed to be in Cardiff this week but the job was cancelled to he is doing research from home I think he maybe in London this week. It has been lovely having him around so much.

Jordy had a couple of nights of not have the night screamers (as we now call them). But he had them tonight. Interestingly I didn't put him down to bed after his last feed as I had the last 2 nights. Anyway incase it helps anyone we actually managed to settle him by giving him a bath in his Tummy Tub. He was all hysterical and nothing would settle him and my mum suggested it so we filled it and put him in and settled straight away. A little later he got a bit grumpy again and I was trying to do some study (I have an exam for the open uni course next by Monday) so dh took him and the lite monkey completely settled straight away Dh even maneged to put him happily in his cot and he's still there now.

LT I'm sure you did look lovely, but what is a Facinator? Thanks for all the contraceptive info this fertility awareness sounds great, although I don't want to risk getting preggars but I hate the idea of the pill, a coil seems just yucky and I have a very regular as clockwork period. So I think I will talk to dh about it. I think mentioning that some of you had a lower sex drive on the pill will swing the vote he will not want to reduce that.

JJ I have using clothe nappies, I was a bit lazy a was using disposables for first few weeks but he got nappy rash with them so have switched now with good effect on the nappy rash and everything is chugging along nicely.

Oh my goodness it's nearly 1am better go hoping to have day out with mum and the boys tomorrow and let du have some peace and quiet to work. Like rosemerta my ds1 doesn't want to go out cos it too cold. But I want to go out for a bit. Oh but he did a have little outing today he went with his dad and had his first haircut at a proper hairdressers he was so good and I think he really enjoyed it. Felt like a big boy. Right better go to bed night night.

Message withdrawn

Morning,

It isn't measles. Bloody NHS direct did really scare me though. Going to see GP today hopefully, knowing them I'll never get an appointment.

Cat I am really sorry you had to go to hospital. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it goes before 3 months.

I had a really terrible night and I have had about 2 hours sleep. DS2 woke at half 1 and went to sleep at half 4, DH's alarm went off at 5. Of course DS1 had to get up with DH so even though DS2 is finally asleep I can't be.

I was meant to be having my hair done today but will have to cancel as I am not going to be awake enough.

cat poor ds & poor you . I don't have any experience of colic or reflux but [hugs] to you all.

Pretty grotty night here too Kayz. Am so glad it's not measles but sorry you have to cancel your haricut - do you really have to? Those kind of things make such a difference.

And Cat my heart goes out to you. Think people should get medals for coping with babies with colic (a very good friend of mine had a similar experience). On the positive side at least you've got a diagnosis now so you know what you're dealing with. It's difficult on a different scale. You will get through it - but it's completely understandable that you say there's little to enjoy. Just try and hang in there.

I have to say that I think it's the exception rather than the rule to 'enjoy' the first 3 months with a newborn anyway. If I'm honest I don't think I really got a lot out of moterhood until DS was about 4 or 5 months and a bit more responsive. And even then - and now - a lot of it is really boring [prepares to be kicked off mumsnet for such unmaternal admission]. It's compounded with your first one, or was for me anyway, because it's such a headfuck to go from being responsible for just yourself to being a Mum. I can remember practically grieving for my lost life (ljob I loved/late boozy nights/lazy sunday mornings/lots of time with dh). But having said that is eventually so rewarding and although I think it's natural to still have some contradictory feelings there's nothing like the happiness my little family brings me.

I don't know if this will help anyone - but with DS I found that way to keep me going was to get up in the morning with DH - however bad a night I'd had - so that I could leave the house with him and go for a walk. Quite often I just shoved my (think comfort rather than athleticism) tracksuit on and hadn't had time to shower or anything. But leaving the house with DH meant I did get out - that DS and I got some daylight and I got some exercise and a coffee and felt like I'd achieved something - even if that was all I managed all day. Also I didn't have to listen to door shutting when DH left which was one of most depressing sounds.

This time am utterly spoiled as DH is still at home and will be for a few more weeks. Also although sleep deprivation is still hideous I've found 2nd time around much easier (with exception of DD being ill).

Verso I second advice to talk to your GP - IME that there's something quite empowering about taking control of your depression in that brief moment when you're feeling ok enough to if that makes sense. And it's so much better to be on the safe side if you even think it's likely you're getting PND.

Veggie just tell me where and I'll come to your post natal commune - although Barbados rather than Wales for me...

Am in Yorkshire next week having our postponed Christmas - if any of you Yorkshire ladies fancied a coffee in York I could do Tues Weds or Friday...Will be based near Northallerton if somewhere else is easier.

LadyT am of westfield but can't go near shops as will be tempted to spend money we don't have not least as DH not working at the moment. Lovely lovely man I used to work with used to also refer to 'spot of cheerfulness'. So true. And also by rights given amount have worked through in recent weeks (our contribution to christmas that we didn't end up taking because we were at home) I should be extremely cheerful indeed....