December 08 - a few babies under the tree still need unwrapping!

[EffiePerine]

New thread ladies. I have a feeling I will be talking to myself a lot

Kayz I agree with the others. You've got to decide what's best for you and your baby and not worry about what other people think.

I'm glad you're holding the mastitis off Turnip, hope it goes completely soon.

I took DD and DS to mothers and toddlers this morning and it worked very well apart for a wobbily moment when I was feeding DS and lost sight of DD. By the time I had popped my boob away and set off in pursuit there was no sign of her anywhere. I had to ask one of the supervisors who pointed her out sitting quietly at the painting table disguised in a yellow apron! I felt a bit silly I must confess.

Sorry Kayz, cross-posted. Good for you on making your decision.

is anyone actually waking their baby up (if they are lucky enough to be asleep) to do things like bath/feed/get some activity time? again, i think i am being confused by people on routines already, or by people who have babies much older than our 2.5 week old dd.

sorry to ask - i feel like such a dunce at this motherhood thing.

thanks for the link and for the advice re: thrush - maybe she's got thrush. her tongue is certainly white, but the mw said that could just be milk.

dreading tonight a little. last night was indeed, dreadful, but she's slept all afternoon, so anticipating a hell of a meltdown.

wg, can you see any other white patches on the inside of her lips & cheeks? It might be worth getting properly checked, it really has made a difference to ds.

kayz I'm glad you've come to a decision, you've done really well to come so far. I agree with you that some mws are very quick to say to top up with formula and not to give bf a proper chance to work.

The only thing I am worried about now is engorgement. Is it worth expressing or should I just leave them?

kayz when I gave up bf I still expressed once a day for about a week then every other day for a few more days but you've bf-ed much longer than I did so you might need to do more often. I did give Sean expressed milk for 1 feed a day while I could so that could be an option for you?

Yeah I would be quite happy doing that. I'd like him to get as much breast milk as possible.

I'll give that a go, thanks Rosmerta

Hi all
Well kind of a productive night last night and day today! Got him to sleep in the cot last night after a couple of attempts he settled about 1230-1am and slept until 0345 had a 15 min feed then back to sleep until H went to work at 0700! Couldn't believe my luck, and I think it was just that - luck! Was a bit lazy and at 0700 fed him in bed while I of course fell asleep then woke at 1000am with him asleep next to me again!

I know newborns are suppose to be sniffly etc but he has been doing the occasional cough etc so hoping it's not a cold?

Took some photos of him for passport purposes, and thought i'd better stop when he started going cross eyed probably from focussing on the camera or the flash! Took camera to photo shop and they have printed them the correct size etc. Picked up form from PO for British one and will do Aussie online. PO lady said babies 1st passport can take up to 6 weeks????? Anyone done a British one recently? A whole lot of things need to come together but if they do we could be planning to travel to Australia by mid February so hoping it's not this long!
Rosemerta yeah can def meet up - I think Chutney you might join to? And perhaps LadyT? Will look out for your email Rose - I'm on the group list.

Kayz: you have done SO well to bf DS2 for as long as you have - ignore any sniffiness from your MIL, in the end it is your choice how you feed your baby. If you and DS2 are happier with formula then go for it.

Have been on my own all day for the first time - lovely to see Cat this morning (despite DS1 behaving Not Well in the cafe and me being feeble middle-class mummy!), this afternoon was hard esp after 4pm as DS1 refused to have a nap. Have just put him to bed early. Had to leave him crying as DS2 needed a feed, then he said his mouth hurt so have given him to Calpol- think he's started teething again. Aaargh! Two is hard work - hats off to those with more, esp Hatty with TWO toddlers .

Verso: hoping for a settled night for you

In fact, sleepy vibes to all babies, to strike between the hours of 10pm and 7am

Kayz, I know what you are going through, but you really shouldn't worry about what other people think. He is your baby and you know what is best for him, and also for you and your family. The only reason that I am still bf'ing at all (I'm mixed feeding) is that I am such a control freak that I will see myself as a failure if I give up before six weeks (I am counting the days though). Also DH hasmade it very clear that he thinks I should BF as long as possible. I know it's got nothing to do with him, but I can't bear to be seen as a failure by him either, which I know he would never think, but he would be disappointed and it would be an undercurrent.

The osteopath was stressfull, she screamed for the whole session even though I know it wasn't hurting her (I've had osteopathy and it does not hurt), was more to do with being naked I think, she seems to hate that, must be a winter baby thing?! The osteo didn't find much wrong with her (perfectly aligned skull apparently!), but did release some tension in her neck which he thinks might help with the wind/colic, and also her skin problems (she has cradle cap on her face). She has been awake most of today from wind, and now overtiredness, so we'll see how we get on I guess. I do really advocate osteopathy though. I know it's a bit of an unknown quantity, but all of my close family use it for a variety of ailments with great success, and believe me, we are a family of sceptics!

Somebody was asking about real nappies ages ago. I have TotsBots Bamboozles, which I use occasionally but find that with the amount of pooing that they do at this stage that it's not ideal, so am waiting until she becomes a bit more 'regular' as they are fine for wet nappies. I got size 2 for exactly this reason.

WG I wake her up sometimes, if I need to get her dressed to go out or something. I have also woken her if she sleeps for too long, 3hrs plus.

I am also worried that DD is getting into bad habits, she goes down into her cot fine at night, but I am guilty of settling her to sleep, usually on the boob. And when she wakes for nightime feeds I just haul her into bed with me and shove her on, then fall back to sleep and not put her back in the cot. She will be six weeks on Wednesday so I ought to get this sorted before it bites me in the bum.

Verso, if you're reading, I totally understand, I feel like that too sometimes, but am too obsessive to not log onto Mumsnet at least once a day!

There was loads of other stuff I wanted to say, but have forgotten it all.

tried another bottle. failed again. am so frustrated and feeling trapped. i only wanted to be able to go out on my own every once in a while before 2010 but now i can't see how that will ever happen.

may I have a small wobble? I'm worried that I won;t be able to look after DS2 properly as I'm so tired - thing is he rarely cries so I dont always respond to his cues as I should (besides running round after DS1). I lost him this morning down the side of the bed , he'd slipped down a few inches and was muttering a bit but not crying, I'd fallen asleep so no idea how long he'd been there. I do tend to put him back in the moses basket after night/morning feeds but sometimes I fall asleep... or I pick him up and don't support his head properly ... sure most of this is hormones but I am scared of making a stupid mistake and hurting him seriously

Hi everyone, there?s lots to catch up on, and I?ve been devouring all the talk about routines. I did get GF to read, but decided not to go with it as it didn?t explain how to get your LO into the routine if they ?resisted? it as such, so I now have the Baby Whisperer to hand which I like the idea of. However I haven?t managed to get any sort of routine going yet, so have lots of questions for those of you who have got something established. At the moment I?m trying to differentiate between night and day, so I am doing the bathing and feeding in a dark room before bed and then doing feeds and changes in the dark (or as dark as possible) throughout the night. DD normally has a feed 6/7am-ish, so my rule at the moment is that if it?s still dark outside when we?re finished then we both go back to bed, otherwise we get up and go downstairs. This does mean that often we?re not getting up til 9 or later (the luxury of a first child!), but think that Turnip has a point and maybe I should be more disciplined if I expect DD to. I?ve also found that DD has about 2 awake times during the day, but each last 2 to 3 hours and go from one feed to the next. Then between all other feeds (roughly 3 to 3.5 hours apart, or when she?s hungry) she sleeps, I can?t get her to have half an hour awake and then an hours nap ? which makes Tracey Hogg?s EASY routine a bit difficult, it?s more like EA ? ESY ? ESY- EA ? ESY etc! Would I be better off going with a timetable to get a routine established and be militant about it? Any suggestions anyone? Thank you!

Arti ? Was it you who said you?d prefer to have a summer baby to be able to spend more time outside? I?m with you on that one, I?ve only just got really mobile from the stitches in the last couple of days so have been suffering bad cabin fever! Warm days so I could sit outside would have been fab. And congrats to your DH on the job offer, sounds a great opportunity if you decide to go for it, and sorry to hear you're struggling with the bottle - I hope you find a solution in the near future.

Kayz ? the only way you will have failed DS is if you don?t feed him at all. As long as he gets fed and has a happy mum to care for him is the best way for him. Good luck with the FF

Veggie ? I?m also getting DD?s name wrong, I keep calling her my god daughters name and DH keeps calling her the dogs name ? so you?re not alone! And I do the patting thing in the night too (although it did work a couple of nights ago and I got another hour and a half before she woke again!)

And books were mentioned I think, my MIL got me ?wife in the north? for xmas, which was great ? it?s adapted from a blog by someone who?s moved from London to Northumberland with 2 toddlers and a baby on the way. Because of the blog/diary style there?s no annoyance if DD interrupted me in the middle of a chapter, and I could so relate to the pregnancy/new baby tales (many of which had me crying with laughter).

Hoping for good nights for all xx

artichokes: are you giving the bottle or is DH? DS1 wasa refusenik, but once I was back at work (at 6mo) he got on fine with bottles as he worked out it was the only way he was getting milk! The best teats for us were the NUK ones, then we went back to Avent once he was used to the idea.

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Hugs to you as well Cat, I'm sure it's nothing you are / aren't doing, babies sometimes do thst. As I said this am screaming babies don't automatically become stressed children, in favt the opposite seems to apply - my sister was like DS1 and went on to be a sunny child, I slept most of my first 2 years away and was by all account mosr cantankerous when I finally woke up!

Have no advice on settling, tried most things with DS1 and ended up just feeding to sleep so I coukd get some sleep. Which is what I'm doing this time (and am def not waking for activity time or whatever).

It is funny really. I have a baby that sleeps well but I'd rather have a baby that was BF and not sleeping that well.

I really understand where Verso is coming from. I do find myself comparing and getting jealous of everyone whose babies seem to have taken to BF like a duck to water.

Cat I am sure it is nothing you are doing. DS is easyish (not too much crying, but a bit of a faff over eating and sleeping), and I am sure I am doing nothing special. Sorry, not trying to make you jealous. I would take the stressed and traumatised comments with a pinch of salt. I think that is a bit of a stupid thing of them to say to be honest. Also I was the same as effie, lovely sunny disposition til 18 months and the arrival of my screaming younger brother. Then I was a little strop monster. And my brother cried and cried and fed and fed (and grew up to be massively chilled out). My poor mum . this doesn't help for now though I know!
Effie snap for me too. I am a little worried that I am going to do something stupid as I am a little clumsy and careless and quite laissez faire with the whole parenting thing . for example I had him on a pillow on my lap and pulled just the pillow towards me with him on it, then realised that he could easily have rolled off the back of the pillow, off my knee and onto the floor, and felt so stupid.

zj re the being awake thing, we have the same problem really but DS is gradually having more awake time. He has started taking ages to feed so that makes up some of the awake time during the day! DH does try to play with him, but in general when he wakes up he wants feeding and when he finishes feeding he often falls asleep!
Sometimes he manages to play with him for a while in the middle of a feed. I haven't read the baby whisperer so I don't know what it says exactly re this stuff.
We have got the GF book cos DH bought it, as my friend is doing GF, and DH decided that he wanted to do some kind of routine. We had a fight about it because I really wasn't keen particularly on GF. Then he got it and read you had to get up at 7am every day and went off it . However, he has been writing down when DS sleeps, feeds, plays etc, ever since he was born, and the good days we have, he looks suspiciously like a GF routine baby, so I am starting to think it may suit him and we should try it a bit. A lot of it makes sense but I hate the way it is written. It makes me feel so stressed out that if I don't do what it says to the letter the world will end, which is clearly bullshit.
wg yes we do try and wake up DS in the day but only if he sleeps for ages and ages. We try not to let him sleep for more than a couple of hours at a go? Changing him usually wakes him up, even if he is fast asleep. Don't stress out about knowing what you are doing though, I have no idea, it all feels like trial and error to me.

Oh from ages ago LadyT we were talking about the coil. No you are not desperately misinformed about any of what you said as far as I know. I know very little about it, I just had a doctor try and persuade me to use the coil a few years ago, as he was trying to get me to come off the pill as my BP was high (In the end he let me stay on the pill, so I didn't research it much) and it did get me thinking that it might not be as bad as I thought it would be.

Re books, I have read about 7 books since DS was born, not much else to do while BFing. I am not willing to admit what they are though , suffice to say they need very little concentration! All the reasonably high brow books I got for Christmas are still on the bookshelf waiting for my brain/concentration span to return!

kayz well done on making a decision!

Cat - please do not think you are to blame for your DS's crying. Its colic and reflux which are real physical ailments. You sound like a lovely, concerned and attentive mother. Re cuddling to sleep. If your gut says you want to do it then do it and do not obsess about the consequences. If it might minimise his and your distress then it is worth it. You can always sleep train later if he builds bad associations, after all, pick-ip and put-down is sleep training, if you want you could delay doing it for now. I held my DD1 to sleep for six months and then I did two nights of controlled crying (it only took twnety minutes each night) and from then on she self settled. I will never regret the six months of cuddles.

Effie - DH tried the bottles but I was there. Then I tried the bottles. Then a friend tried... Tomorrow I am going to go shopping for a few hours and leave DH with some expressed milk and a NUK teat (we bought a NUK today, they were the bottles that DD1 eventually agreed to take after months and months).

cat I agree with arti about cuddling to sleep. I do this with ds2 & had wondered about making a rod etc but decided to make the most of it. Ds1 never wanted to be cuddled as much so its nice to have now. And you sound like a great mum, ds knows you love him & are doing everything you possibly can to help him.

Here's to a good night for everyone!

kayz well done for making the decision to FF. It has been a difficult one for you and goodness knows you have taken your time to ensure it is the best decision for you and your family. Ignore any small-minded people who feel the need to pass comment/judge your decision, esp MIL !

katie snap ! DS is 6 weeks on Wed and am panicking that he doesn't settle without swing/car seat/cuddle/sling/boob. Are others managing to put LOs into cot/basket and they settle themselves during the day ?

Cat and Effie please don't beat yourselves up, you are both doing a top job, none of us are perfect but we are all pretty damn good !

I went to GP today and got Daktarin cream as she reckons it looks like thrush. She gave me an 'oral' cream to put on my nipples as it will also help DS when he sucks it off... did anyone else get this ? I thought some people got separate treatment for LOs...?

arti I meant to say that I really feel for you feeling so trapped by BF. Are you not up for the odd FF ? If not have you tried the lapping from a cup method ?

Excuse ignorance but is the 'pick up put down' method just where you pick them up and settle then put them down as soon as they are asleep or calm ?... and I have read the BW !!! albeit several months ago so can't remember

Mibbles - thanks. having figured out how to express breast milk i was happy to do that once a day for a while. if expressing had failed i would have considered a little bit of formula. however, if dd continues to refuse a bottle than it makes no difference whether it contains bm or fm.

Arti at the risk of sounding patronising, keep trying with the bottle, it can take time. DS took about a week of trying a couple of times a day before he really took to it. Also, might be an idea to leave the room and let someone else do it as if they can smell you nearby they often refuse the bottle.

Mibbes I've started a routine in earnest tonight. Got her ready for bed and fed her quietly in the bedroom at 8pm and she went down a dream, still asleep now, will let you know how it goes...expect I'll be pacing the floor again in a couple of hours!