Due in May- 2007 is officially here 01/01/07

[ShowOfHands]

We're having babies this year!

My birth plan is pretty much 'let DH hold the baby first and DON'T TRY AND TOUCH ME WHILE I'M IN LABOUR.' Think that covers all of the bases. I'm hoping for an at home, waterbirth, drug-free and with no examinations. But I'm not writing anything down as I don't want to be disappointed at any deviation from the plan. DH knows what I want in most eventualities and I trust him to speak up for me.

Mine is similar to yours AM, It consists of no pain please, and do what you have to do to get this baby out safely. Both mine have been so different, my tiny birthplan I had with ds went out the window as soon as I arived at hospital so I haven't bothered since. I have to be honest I usualy pack my bag when I go into Labour, although I may do this one a little earlier as it's no.3.

Well done you for being organised MKG

No examinations, thats a good one SOH, Bahhhhhhhhhh not alot of chance here for that one, the French are obsessed with having fingers up your fanjo.

What would happen if you said (or growled or screamed) 'NO' to them FSF? Surely they still have a duty of care and can't force you to be examined.

I am entirely confident that barring any unforseen complications, I will not consent to being internally examined. My midwife is very happy with this, says she only does internals if requested or if there is a problem.

With ds I didn't really use my birthplan for much, but the midwives were on board with everything anyway, and I met most of them before ds was born. This time I'm in a practice of 4 Ob's 3 of whom I've never met, so when I go to my next checkup on Wednesday I'm going to give them the birth plan so they have a copy in my file. (If you want to know a secret, I had a rough draft before I was even pregnant, I wrote it in July).

I need a list, because when I packed my bag last time we forgot the camera, and all other things we needed. I'm not being unprepared again.

You are organised!

I always thought I would write one tbh, but now know the woman who will be delivering the baby and she is aware of my wishes. However, the main reason for deciding against one is that I know if I can't follow it I will be devastated. I'm spending my time training DH instead.

Well, a lady I met out here was 6 weeks behind me when pg with dd, she refused the mthly internals with the midwife who in turn said well if you don't want to play it the French way then don't come and see me each mth. She only saw the midwife twice throughout her pg'cy. Makes my midwife seem a bitch, she is not she is lovely, I can see both sides. You are right SOH I'm sure in the Hospital they would respect my wishes if that was one of them.

I am tidying AM now, promise.

That's incredible that they can just refuse care like that if you don't want to be examined internally. I usually moan about England, but maybe there are positives to living here.

What are they checking for? Is it just to make sure the cervix is still closed? At my midwife appointments we drink tea, she feels my tummy and listens to the baby and we gossip about whatever takes our fancy. I am incredibly lucky to have such a lovely midwife.

I'm not someone who has to have everything on my plan, I just want them to know that I'd rather where my own clothes instead of a hospital gown, and that I would prefer to tear rather than have an episiotomy, Not to offer pain relief unless I ask type stuff.

Plus ob's here tend to be a little impatient, during labor and pushing, so I need to lay down the law ahead of time.

The experience there is so different isn't it MKG? I read a book- pregnancy brain though, can't remember the title, by Naomi somebody I think- about giving birth in the US and it shocked me how different it is. Not necessarily in a bad way either, just very different. Apart from scans I only ever see a midwife, even at the birth unless there are complications. Do you have to see a doctor/obstetrician as a matter of course? And who actually delivers the baby? Is that the obstetrician too?

Good for you MKG,

Yes, they are just checking for the state of the cervix.

That was 2 yrs ago though with dd, things are changing, I haven't had an internal yet with this one, she told me last time that they were changing things and using more idea's from the UK. She was very happy about it,she is quite young, very fun and I really like her, She reminds of one of these people that wants to use all new ideas and improve things but is tied down with red tape.

I think the lady I know caught her on an off day, There are soooooooo many English here, maybe the French get a little fed up with the ukERS telling them how it is in England and should be done. I have to be honest my experience here with birth and ante-natal care has been fantastic, I wouldn't choose to have another child in the UK now.

Here we can choose between an OB or a midwife. A midwives did my care and delivered ds, but because the practice doesn't cover my insurance I now go to an OB practice. I go every 4 weeks. This is how it goes.

I bring in my urine sample.
Nurse checks it.
Nurse Takes my weight (I always keep my eyes closed).
Nurse does my blood pressure, and asks me for symptoms, and makes a note. Sometimes they take blood if any is needed.
Nurse leaves and I wait for doctor.

The above is the same at a midwife practice (unless it is an independent midwife, but they are not legal in all states)

Then:
Doctor comes in, listens to heart beat, asks me if I have any questions. If I say no she leaves, and I go home.

It takes longer for me to drive to the office, than my checkups take.

During the delivery, each patient is assigned a nurse that is with them 100% of the time. Midwives spend more time with patients, but pop in and out. Doctors, depending on their schedule, and the time of day, usually show up for pushing, and check you out intermittandly during labor.

Most of this depends on how many people are there, and the size of the hospital. We have a relatively small hospital so in the cities, protocal is probably different.

Different here too SOH, Scans are done by your Obs gynacologist. She is your "Dr" all the way through. Midwife is seen at similar intervalls to the Uk, Urine, blood presure, fundal height h/b done at those checks. A Dr MUST be present at the delivery here, but a midwife can do all the work. Blood tests are done routine at any labaratory you turn up at with a prescrition, they are seperate from the surgerys or hospitals.

I wouldn't be surprised if they get fed up with the comparisons and ultimately they are only ever following procedure. So, if a woman had an incompetent cervix and the midwife hadn't done an internal at an appointment, she would be negligent by default. Your midwife must be very aware of having to do what is expected of her by her profession. I don't envy midwives- every woman has her own wishes and perhaps a certain level of expectation and I would imagine it's impossible to tailor care to suit that expectation. My aunt is a senior midwife here in England and says that some demands made are outrageous (especially considering she works for the NHS) and the abuse she sometimes gets from irate partners is worse than she experienced when she worked in the police force many years ago.

And are you happy with that MKG? Sorry, not meaning to sound stupid- I'm genuinely interested and have never spoken to anybody who has been through a system other than the UK one. The book I read by the American woman was very scathing. I think she was endeavouring to highlight a far-too-medicalised aspect to American antenatal care and delivery.

Why wouldn't you have a child in the UK FSF?

Just remembered. It was 'Misconceptions: Truth, Lies, and the Unexpected on the Journey to Motherhood' by Naomi Wolf. Quite an odd and biased read.

I'm happy with it, but maybe it's because I don't know any other way.

I'm not one to talk to doctors or midwives about anything. I'm a very get in, get it done, and get out person. It's also different with the OB's and Midwives I see because the two offices are connected to the hospital so guess who's always on call. I know that a lot of the time they are balancing seeing patients and delivering babies, in the same hour. Also the doctors I see have three offices in three locations. But only 4 doctors, so they are trying to see as many people as they can.

I do have to add that when I was further along with ds my appointments got more in depth, but at this point there really isn't much to do. My Dr. also knows that this is my second baby and I know the drill, I popped a lot of questions and reminders to her when we first met, so she knows I'm on the ball.

Man I'm writing long posts.

If it's biased then it probably comes fom someone who had a terrible experience and is looking at all the people to blame.

When you say that you have a chat and sip tea with your midwife, I think wow, I would love that, but when I hear other people on other threads talk about what it's like in the hospital, I wouldn't trade what I have for it all.

Ummmm mainly because I had my first in the UK, don't get me wrong it wasn't bad at all. Infact it was OK, no problems, nightmares, it was basic, and simple as you'd expect. It was also all I knew, so would have been quite happy having No.2 there. But moving out here at 8 weeks pg with dd means I've seen the care here too from the beggining. It is far more patient needs, no cost issues, if you need more scans you get them, 3 are routine anyway, Nucals and bloods are routine as are checks for gestational diabeties and strep B. Last two weeks consists of machine monitoring twice a week for h:b and contractions. Yes, maybe it's a little over the top sometimes but it makes you feel much safer throughout. The hospitals are really nice, private rooms normally, certainly no wards. Food is good, all is provided.

Maybe I sounded like I was condemming the UK, I wasn't what they do on their NHS budget is good. I didn't mean I wouldn't have a child in the Uk, I just wouldn't choose to if I had the choice between the two. I think the procedures are all down to money at the end of the day, I have to pay my normal national health contributions here but also a top up insurance, money is not so much of an issue here.

Lol at the Man bit MK, thats veru US.

Man it's cold here!

SOH,

I think that the worst part of our system is that we are trained that doctors know more than us, therefore most people don't questions their decisions. Luckily I had a mom and dad that both have been damaged by the medical establishment and learned that they didn't ask all the questions or involve themselves enough.

The key to good healthcare here, and I guess anywhere is to inform yourself, and be proactive in your own care.

Thanks for the replies ladies.

Interesting to hear some international perspectives. FWIW I think you have a better standardisation of care in France and in the US. Here it seems to be a postcode lottery. For example, some people get nuchal scans as a matter of course, others have to pay to have it done privately. I am very lucky that the care I receive fits in very well with what I would have wanted given a choice. If I were older or had a higher risk of complications I would perhaps grumble about lack of nuchal scans or triple instead of quadruple testing. My friend lives 20 miles away and is under GP care, I am here and looked after by community midwives (eleven in total, but one who does most of the care) so a short distance makes a huge difference. Plus I live near and work at the university that provides all midwives for the University Teaching Hospital I am registered with so I have no experience of the midwife shortages that others seem to have in this country.

Anyway, I also seem to be joining the long-post brigade. Got to go to the supermarket at 6pm when DH finishes work and it is pouring with rain.

Lol French - willy wierdo - it does get shortened to wills sometimes but we mostly call her Anna bean, as her middle name is Anna - alot of friends call her Wills

April I love the name Ella,

My birth plan - what happens happens if you try and give me an epidural you can forget it, if I need a section then you better have the GA ready - there nice and simple, anything else I will deal with at the time, I will do a list tho as I m bound to forget something

I remeber the internals being the worse bit of labour (well the bit of labour i did do lol)

Managed a couple of hours kip and feel human again, I love sleeping with dd - we dont seem to snuggle as much as much as b4

I think that care can differ within the UK too, depending on where you live. For instance, my ante natal appointments are shared between my midwife and my GP, who are both based at my local GP surgery. My check ups with them take about 10 minutes - urine sample checked, blood pressure taken, foetal heart listened to and, later on, fundal height and foetal position noted. If I have any questions, I can ask them but they're always answered in a quick, matter of fact way. No cups of tea or chats or anything like that. I understand that my GP has loads of other patients to see and I prefer to be in and out with him as I know he's busy. When I first met my midwife (at my booking in appt), she was very chatty and friendly but when I see her at the surgery now, she's very business like and just gets it over and done with. I have been wondering whether this is to do with the fact that my MIL is the practice manager at the surgery and so oversees the staff and what goes on there. Since she's been 'off' with us, I've noticed that I get something of a frosty reception when I go to the surgery. Last time I went, MIL came out from the office and, when she saw me at the counter, hid behind a wall (thinking I couldn't see her). Her skirt was sticking out from behind the wall so I knew that she was stood there, waiting for me to go. The practice nurse then stood alongside her and was looking at her (so MIL was obviously talking to her), then she turned and looked directly at me, looked me up and down and smirked. At first I felt hurt but then I thought "sod it, it's up to her how she behaves and she's the one missing out". That evening I talked to DH about it and asked him how he would feel about us changing GPs once the baby is born (assuming that we don't move out of the area). He was really good and understanding and totally supported this. I just know that if she continues acting like this after I've had the baby and when I have to go to the surgery with the baby, then I will be really hurt - she'll not only be blanking me but the baby too, which just isn't on.