Jan 2016 #7 - headaches and exhaustion but 1/3 through

[BeeMyBaby]

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12-46WHExOXbKsKon2nKyEth9RRyKw9paIw4V4SGTFE8/htmlview?pli=1

pug are they catching you out on the "intend to return to work" part of those clauses as they may prevent your return to work? Not returning would disqualify you from omp and make you entitled to smp only perhaps?

Thanks Martin. It's 2015.

Brickie - I don't think so as if you don't return then you have to just lay it back. Either way I'd go back to work - my previous employer would defintely have me back.

The fact that you are on a years contract make it a whole lot more complicated pug and I'd suggest you need specialist advice - don't know if the Citizens Advice Bureau would help? Or even the legal section on MN?

If you were on a regular, FT employment then your start date of 12 April would entitle you to full SMP and maternity rights legally. The wording you've put above echos the legal requirements so you would also be entitled to the enhanced mat-pay provided you "intend to return to work at the xx or the NHS for a minimum of 3 months". That's an incredibly generous enhanced pay as well!

Thanks hotcross.

Wording on FTCs

Employees On Fixed-Term or Rotational Training Contracts
3.3.1 Employees subject to fixed-term contracts or rotational training contracts which expire after the 11th week before the expected week of childbirth and who satisfy the qualifying conditions of OMP shall have their contracts extended so as to enable them to receive 52 weeks maternity leave.
3.3.2 For those employees who do not meet the eligibility criteria for OMP but do meet the eligibility criteria for Statutory Maternity Pay (SMP) the contract will still expire on its due date. The Trust will still be obliged to pay SMP. This may be paid during maternity leave, during the maternity pay period beginning 11 weeks before the expected week of childbirth and ending after 39 weeks or as a lump sum as part of your final salary with the Trust. For each individual case a decision will be made in relation to the timing of the payment after consultation with payroll.
3.3.3 If you take up employment after the birth of your baby before the end of 39 weeks, you must inform the Trust and your SMP payment will stop the day before taking up new employment. You will not accrue any annual leave whilst you are being paid the 39 weeks SMP as you will no longer be a Trust employee.

My biggest concern was a) do I meet those requirements - thanks for checking my maths! I don't know how they're calculating it! And b) if they try to push me out by appointing someone else now to the full time post to avoid having to pay my mat leave and a cover

Oh pug, sorry you're having to deal with this, employers pulling these kinds of stunts against women is fast becoming a bugbear of mine.

I don't know the detail of the nhs rules, but from a legal point of view even on a fixed term contract you are not allowed to be discriminated against on the grounds of pregnancy. So the biggest issue I think you quickly need to document and work through is 'what they would do if you weren't pregnant?'. Since this sounds like a change in stance, have you documented, or could you document dates and conversations with relevant people that might indicate that you are now being treated less favourably than if you weren't pregnant?

I'm sure there must be some brilliant employers out there able to see the long term view - brilliant, talented female employees who can massively contribute to business success as well as have babies - rather than the short term inconvenience factor which inevitably alienates women. We all need to find these employers who are worthy of our abilities!

Thanks guys. I'm just feeling really stressed about it all. My mum has said that its laughable that they are being so ridiculous and that they've obviously received bad advice because what they are suggesting as an option is completely illegal.

I just hate the fact that I am going to have to start referencing the law and policies to defend myself.

Bottom line - if I wasn't pregnant, I'd get the job no questions asked. I already got it the first time competitively when it was advertised externally and I manage 'nightmare services' that none of my colleagues would touch with a barge pole.

I just feel upset that I've been put in this situation and Worried it will become really unpleasant

Awww pug, I know exactly how you feel, I really didn't see my issues coming either with work. Suggest we support each other through this time, there's enough to stuff to worry about already without work bits.

I've heard nothing on the grievance I put in on Friday, kinda sitting there half expecting to be given my marching orders any min for daring to challenge them. Must clean my car out in case I have to give that back at a moments notice :-(

I've been absent a while and struggling to catch up, but had to say something for pug. Your situation sounds horrendous and hope you get the support you need quickly. Do you have any union cover at all?
I'm NHS too and saw an article today about my union fighting the maternity rights for someone (different situation) but if you are in that sort of role (which as you talk of management I don't know if you are) it's worth speaking to your rep asap for support.
If not, do you know any reps in your hospital who could point you in the right direction,or like someone else said, citizens advice?

Our service is being transferred to another NHS provider in October, it shouldn't change my mat leave but may impact my return to work arrangements, something to question at consultation (not that it will change anything, just helps to be forewarned!)

pug my understanding date wise you should be fine, 11th week before expected date is taken from the Sunday before due date then counted back (so for me due 20th Jan, it's the first Sunday in November) your year long contract not due to expire until after this date so it should be extended for mat leave. (if I've read all your info correctly!)

Teenie - I was as convinced as I could have been that we were having a boy; and she is 100% a girl!

Kep - I'm 17+5 and have not felt a thing yet. It's my first though and other pg friends have said they've felt nothing until wk 20. The obstetrician did the Doppler last week and her heart was so loud so she's definitely there!

pug I'm actually in a difficult position too...temp contract on a rolling basis that is ending next Monday when I'm on holiday. So I'll turn up for work on Tuesday not knowing if I'm an employee or not. This is normal for the council though....I'll receive a contact after a few weeks normally. I'm also not going to get any mat pay or sick pay should I need it (and technically I shouldn't be going back being that I'm still bleeding) I work alongside others who are permanent employees who would get all of that. It's so unfair. I've worked there 2 years

Sorry to hear some of you guys having tricky situations with work contracts etc! Can't imagine how much more stress it puts on you!

Good luck to everyone having there 20 week/gender scans soon! We paid private for ours today and was totally worth it! Can't remember who asked but I'm 17+2 and could see so clearly .... Blatantly a boy wanting to show it off!! I had a feeling it was a boy from the start .... Called him he from the beginning

pug and ready I'm really sorry you're having to deal with work issues. Sadly it seems to be far more the norm than it should be. ready I agree it is a complete bugbear or mine that employers don't seem to be able to take the long term view. I had a real battle with my employers after I had my first baby. Things are better now but my boss still clearly sees anyone with children and so responsibilities outside of work as unable to do their job properly. He also had full time nannies for his kids even once they were at school so his experience of parenting isn't exactly the same as mine...I should say I am a lawyer so you think my boss would no better but actually I think lawyers are some of the worst at discrimination!
I'm planning to tell him about the baby today as I can't really hide it anymore. It is not going to go down well - wish me lucj!

Oh god - know better and luck!

Good luck Romeo! Sorry to all those with work stress, so unnecessary if everyone just followed the law and was a decent human about it

Ds is still asleep! Had some 5am starts recently so this is bliss. And he timed it for the day I don't work, so clever :)

So sorry to hear you've been put into such a difficult position with work pug. I had a really hard battle negotiating AFTER my maternity leave so I feel for you.

kep I'm 19+1 today and I feel something every day now. Not particularly strong but noticeable. About a week ago it wasn't every day for sure.

Congrats on the boy mrsfaz!

Good luck talking to your boss today romeo. My boss broke into a nervous laugh and said "That's hilarious" when I told her.

Good luck Romeo. I think with small businesses I can feel some sympathies if employees go off on maternity but for everyone else the discrimination against pregnant women makes me so angry. The number of people I know who have had their jobs changed or been made redundant when on mat leave, and it always is hard to prove the actions are discriminatory. Plus once women are on maternity leave they often don't have the energy to put up a fight. So hope those of you who need it are able to get good support now.

Just a quick catch up on what happened on Friday with work. The guy who came in gave himself up and he has been arrested and charged with armed robbery and carrying an offensive weapon. We've got a restraining order against him and he's going to court in September to see if he will go to prison or just get a slap on the wrist.

Thanks all. Didn't sleep last night as have been worrying about it so much. Thanks for confirming my dates are right - that's the first bit sorted. The second now is to confirm what their plans are re cover and permanent appointment. Given they have said openly to me that it's 'double paying' that's the issue I don't see how they can pretend it's not my pregnancy that would be the driving factor in not appointing me.

Re Union - I am a senior manager and so don't have membership. Sadly I just never thought I would need it likewise for most of my colleagues

It's now a trade - how much do they value me vs. the cost and the risk of actively discriminating against me because I'm pregnant. I'm so upset that I've been forced into a defensive position and I know that by doing so my manager will be quite aggressive in response. Eg. When I said I wanted to go off on mat leave before Xmas which would have some impact on the rest of the team - as we need min x2 people at all times - she said I was being selfish and needed to be mindful of my team esp in light of wanting to come back. Dreading work today.

Eek pug that's awful what a terrible situation. Such uncertainty. Women are still second class citizens in the working world

pug so sorry that work are being do difficult. My sister had all sorts of issues both times she was off on maternity leave, and ended up practically demoted, sidelined and now facing redundancy.

Those rules seem very clear cut on the mat pay, but I agree that they could make it very difficult on the role - would you get your mum involved as an external party (without revealing she is your mum)... so say you've got external legal opinion? It makes me so mad that we have to go through this, we are legally protected yet a lot of employers think they can get away with it!! word that shouldn't be typed on mumsnet

teeny I was like joey, 100% convinced Bean was a boy, and she is most definitely a girl!

And thanks for info about movements. I have just got to be patient!

Nightfall I really hope everything goes well for you on wednesday for the anomaly scan. You must be under so much stress! Sending some positive vibes

congrats and welcome to team blue mrsfaz!!!!!

kep re movements - I get the feeling that as the movements are so subtle at this stage, I only really feel them when I have a chance to sit/lie down. And that's why some days I feel a lot and some days I feel next to nothing. I feel at least a "pop" most days now (18 + 2) but some days nothing much more. I went to the movies on saturday night and the bub was really active then (quite late at night, hooray), reacting maybe to the noise etc on screen - but I could feel it as I was sitting still for 2 hrs plus (unheard of usually!)

I caught sight of myself in a mirror in a shop today and felt really chunky and awful for the rest of the day! I have popped and look obviously pregnant but with my figure (only 5'5 and hourglass) I can look dumpy pretty easily. Such a small problem in the scheme of things I know! 2.5 weeks until anomaly scan and seeing my ob on thurs ... counting down!

Thanks all. My mum is going to help me compose a letter today to set out the position and make it very clear I understand mine. They seem to be confused on dates, have referenced some bollocks about my contract needing to expire greater than 11 weeks after my edd and are openly referencing the cost of cover.

What they don't seem to appreciate is that by the time my mat leave starts - as I'm taking annual leave beforehand - I'll only have 2 months or so left on my contract anyway. So it's not like I've not been here for some time!

Hoping they see sense. Just feel wretched

Oh Pug I'm so sorry you're going through this at work. I really hope the letter helps to resolve things for you!!

Nightfall, fingers crossed it's good news at the scan!

Got our private gender scan on Saturday - counting down the days!! I'm certain we're having a boy but DH thinks a girl so it'll be really funny to find out who's right.

I think I've felt some bubbles going on but only very subtle, sometimes I'm not sure if it's just wind!!

16+1

i think im having a girl..or a boy! It litrally changes day to day i have no idea what so ever
My Family mainly thinks a boy, Dp's Family thinks a girl.. arggggh can't wait to know.. so so excited!

I'm the same as you missmartin, I just can't wait!!! It'll be so interesting so see who is right won't it?!