March 2013 VIII: feeling kicks, comparing knits and halfway there

[theTramp]

Old thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_clubs/1588951-March-2013-VII-Our-little-pumpkins-are-getting-fatter?msgid=35174657#thread

stormy thanks, might be relevant to work.

Re Boots - often extra points if you join the baby club. Think it's 10 per £ for baby stuff too

Dh and I share all income, but when I had dd1 childcare would have cost the same as my salary, so I didn't see the point of working to pay someonelse to mind her, not that it was viewed as I was paying and dh wasn't, it would have just came out of the same account that all our money goes into, iyswim,

Rainbow - I'm not deliberately being dismissive, I just personally have trouble understanding people's reasons for preferring to work. That doesn't mean I think those reasons are invalid, just that I'm biased by my own perspective. I also don't think anyone should prefer any one particular option - individual choice is what matters. And it does bother me that, so often, it's not really a free choice at all.

I suspect often people cite childcare costs as sufficient reason for not going back to work just because it's easier than getting into a great big discussion about one's personal circumstances and motivations. And for some people, lack of financial reward is sufficient reason. Why should such people be required to provide extra reasons?

Just nosey-ing into the childcare discussion!

Our childcare costs for twins will be something like a third to a half of our joint income, but both DH and I see this absolutely as an investment - first, an investment in my career and future earning potential (for it would be nigh on impossible to get back in the game at this level if I took some years out) and also my future contentedness (for my work makes me inordinately happy). To see it as pure money down the drain seems a bit daft to me because it's only for a couple of years and it usually seems to help guarantee future earning potential - or am I wrong on that last thing?

My worst nightmare would be what's happened to several female academic colleagues I know who merrily took out up to five years bringing up their family full-time only to find it utterly impossible to get back into academic work at the same level. It's really sad to see them get depressed sometimes about how all those years getting their doctorates and churning out publications pre-kids has kind of gone to waste. Now they are, variously, SAHM not through choice, or doing bits of teaching or freelance work here and there, or admin jobs for which they are hugely over-qualified. All of them are dissatisfied.

On the other hand, I've known women who long for maternity leave because they are not happy in their jobs and they seem to put all their creative energy into being a SAHM. And people on this thread have said how they have had fulfilling careers and interesting jobs but actively chose to be a SAHM, not realising how blissed out they would be by motherhood! So I don't want to set up a simplistic binary here for I know that life is a much more complex thing involving finances, different kinds of personal satisfaction and motivation, etc.

Missed out all your chatter, which I'll read properly later, but this discussion is of real interest to me because loads of people are saying to me 'Oh you don't know how you'll feel after they're born', etc, and - who knows? - my perspective on my whole life and career may change post-Feb and I may never ever go back to work ? but I doubt it! I love my work!

Oh being a SAHM or going back to work, finances and all the rest - it is a minefield and everyone is different. Personally I completely see what you mean Stormy, that if all you are doing is earning money to pay for someone else's salary it seems somewhat disheartening, BUT if you would find being at home with baby all the time insufficiently stimulating then going back to work, even if on a net basis it doesn't equate to more or less for the family finances does make sense. Certainly this is a topic we are discussing right now. IF I am earning money to pay for two members of staff and none for me, am I better rethinking my business plan for the next 3 years whilst we look at having kids? If there was an easy answer to this one I would like to know it, because I keep mentally see-sawing back and forth. I think truth is that I'll reassess in new year based on where we are with clients and leads. But certainly right now the idea of working full time just to pay everyone else isn't appealing to me.

Hope everyone who has been struggling is feeling a bit better now. We're starting to get sore backs, sore bumps, sore necks, sore legs... I fear it will only get worse. But at least come babies there is relief!

Thank you for reassurance on buying for newborns. It does help. I think my brain tells me I am doing this right, I have done the research, I know what we need, I am waiting for right time to buy items. But my irrational side is saying - why aren't you so excited that you're buying everything now? What is wrong with you? Aren't you pleased to be welcoming a new human to the world?! ....thankfully rational me remains 80% in power. :)

Rainbow - hurrah for new car. Very nice too.

Also hurrah for nice days with friends sipping tea and eating cake. Colour me jealous! Have had really hectic day today (lunch was at 4pm) BUT productive and useful. So knackered but feeling good. A day of tea & cake would be really lovely though.

Sorry if I have missed people, I know I have missed a thread of conversation somewhere along the way. Just read through a couple of pages, half on train and half two hours later and brain has had enough today.

Oh yes - hurrah for friend who has had nice healthy bouncy baby.

right, I am off for tea.. or I will be once i have persuaded cuddle whore cat to let go and just snooze on the sofa rather than wrapped around me like a scarf.

Hoorah for new car, Rainbow! I know how you feel about feeling very lucky to be at this stage and I am loving my bump despite the backache :)

myjob sorry for your little one being ill, hope they are better soon.

Childcare - such a minefield! I have just put a deposit down for a local nursery in walking distance and also put a request in to return to work four days a week. It is so hard trying to make these decisions based on no knowledge, as I have no idea how I will feel! manda like you I work in a fast-moving field, so my decision to go back to work has a lot to do with the fact that taking 3-5 years out would mean being unable to return (tech marketing moves very fast and I work with a lot of very young, career-hungry types!). I know that while I might feel extremely torn going back after nine months, I would definitely want to work once LO was older and I can't face trying to carve out a new career at that point as well. It does also make financial sense with DH's new business, but that wasn't my main motivation, to be honest. Agree with others who have said the main thing is to do what will keep you happy, rather than focusing on the balance sheet.

I work 3 days and pay for 3 days full childcare, as we have no other help. We come away with just enough to make it worth while for me to still work. However, I will still go back to work when we are paying full childcare fees for the new baby, plus topping up DDs free 15 hours of childcare. I will do this partly for my own sanity, and also because I studied over several years to get where I am now, and don't want to lose my position in the team and also the experience I have gained over 12 years in the field. I have never been one to fawn over babies and that didnt really change when I had my own plus DD was VERY hard work as a toddler and it's really only been in the last few months that I've felt as though Ive really enjoyed our time together. I must admit, that I find it much more fun being at home with DD now than I did when she was tiny and sometimes now can see the attraction of being a SAHM.

I do want to change my job because I hate my long commute and I want to be closer to home. I do feel now that if I was made redundant (local government most recent funding projections not looking good...) I would feel happier about it now than I would have done three years ago. But I will stick it out at my current place until a replacement comes up.

rainbow new car sounds great
pink ouch ouch ouch! Good luck on keeping it dry!
Jojo yes, even with DD having been a whopper, a 6lb baby at 23 weeks would be impressive!

I am in Dublin. DH is doing well and making more than enough money but as I was made redundant before having DS being at home was forced on me ifykwim? I don't think it really suits me as whilst we have money you obviously can't do everything that you want. And tbh I have friends with massive amounts of disposable income who don't spend spend spend. I guess because I did not decide to be a SAHM I am not enjoying it. Also DH has quite old fashioned views so I find it a bit tedious keeping house, cooking etc though we have a cleaner and all his shirts are ironed outside the house.

On the Childcare costs I view these as shared short term as the boys will soon be In School and the Childcare costs will reduce. In fact after ds2 I would love to go back as soon as possible so that I can reignite my career with a view to working 3/4 days when the boys are in school.

I suppose what prompted these questions was a friend last week with no cares in the world told me how unfulfilled she was being at home and you know what I can see it in her. It is nearly expected in Dublin if your husband has a certain job/income you stay at home. Why? And I know lots of people in London whose husbands make hundreds of thousands who also work as it is more normal.

I was also reading those relationship thread on mn and it makes for scary reading. Not that you should make decisions in your relationship based on random Internet threads but it certainly seems that you are more vulnerable without your own income.

All food for thought I suppose. Since pregnancy with ds2 I have been try to enjoy being at home more as I know it is not for ever and am lucky that I am at home so am trying to love it!

Sorry that was quite long!

Have had a very weird and emotional day. I'm stressed out with the job application and various other things and also decided I needed to apply for maternity leave as I received my MatB1 form. So I was filling in the forms for HR and I was checking over the MatB1 form and notice the date on the form for my expected week of delivery was wrong. It was about 3 months out. Then it dawned on me that would have been the due date of my miscarried pregnancy. It totally threw me. The midwife who filled in the form wasn't my usual midwife and probably just saw the due date on the system and wrote it down before leaving it for me to pick up at the doctor's surgery. I think on top of everything else that's been going on, the realisation that the due date is so soon just knocked me sideways. Felt very sad. I have since sorted it out and have a new MatB1 form already, but wow, really got to me. I had a wee moment but I'm ok now. I have a midwife appointment with my usual midwife next week so think I'll offload on her a bit - maybe I'll get a cup of tea out of it.

On the plus side, I have applied for maternity leave to start on my 30th 21st birthday. :)

I think we are well out of the 'norm' family as I work full time and DH stays home with boys and is a house husband , financially I just earn more than double than him and with 2 kids his wages covered child care during school time but would of actually cost us in holidays esp when we thought about costs that go with working! To be honest on whole i love it but times like this it's hard as I know I need to rest but I earn the money and am solely financially liable hence why I tend to keep going even when I know I shouldn't!

I'm the main wage earner too although we both work p/t.

Been catching up after a few days burried in marking and general baby exahustion.

Tramp and Emus We've not done any shopping for baby, and not done any research either! Mind you, we are on number 2 so have all the basics really. Main thing we need will be a double pram. At the moment I'm just to ehausted to manage anything but work and first thing will be to sort out what we need for the house. Move date is about 3 weeks eek. DS was due 10 August and I remember we had a week off in June and designated it baby shopping week. We did get a fair bit given to us but we didn't bu anything until then as far as I can remember (though were possibly a bit more organised in thinking what we did need).

Zoey glad you were firm with yourself and had a day at home!

Have forgotten everything else! Sounded like poeple had some lovely weekends, jelous of all the cake!

Child care, oh heck we don't really know what to do. DS currently with a child minder full time as DH and I both work full time. After this one arrives I'd like 3 days but would consider 2 (and then perhaps do some instrumental teaching too) or 4 days. But it's what we do about paying retiners at the childminders we have to sort out in the next few days which is tricky as have no idea when I might go back to work or how many days I'll end up doing (I won't go back where I currenty am so will be looking from scratch). Plus DS will get free nursery care from September, but we've not looked at nurseries and I wouldn't want baby at nursery and we have no idea if we'd be able to get baby to chilminders and DS to nursery (and DH says doing that would be ridiculous). So basically no idea what place or places we should retain, and if we can really justify the expense of doing it at all. Argh.

In other news I've had pain in my side on and off for a long time (remember 12 week scan being very painful). Have been to the docs once about it when also felt run down and wondered if it was kidney infection, but it wasn't. Not even sure if it is still the same pain, or different, just the same side. But it is now triggered by walking, not always, but mostly if I walk for more than a couple of minutes, and is becoming really quite painful. It's been bad today in particular and although much better when not walking it's aching now (is a sharper pain when walking). I'm assuming it is 'just' muscular or ligament related since it is celarly triggered by moving my right leg but it's really starting to affect my ability to walk anywhere, which is a bit of an issue since I don't drive. Hmm, got consultant appointment on Monday to (finally) go through notes from DS birth so might ask about it then.

My lower back is getting really achy now too, but suppose that's just to be expected. I don't remember any of this last time. Is this all stuff we just block out after birth so we don't realise how daft we are to put ourselves througit all over again?

Day off again tomorrow to finish the rest of the marking. It's been a bit slow going so far so will have to work very hard tomorrow since even finishing and posting it tmorrow it will be a day late. Next week I will hopefully get my Wednesday off to spend with DS and start finding a toddler group to try out.

Oh, and it took £600 to get our car through it's MOT today, with a list of advisory stuff as long as your arm we didn't even bother with. Grrr, han't expected that.

Cor, just had the best home-made pizza, even if I do say so myself! Have got into a nice routine where I make a bit of the next night's tea whilst waiting for a meal to cook. So, on Sunday night I made the onion and celery gravy for the veggie sausages and roast veggies we had last night, and when waiting for that to cook last night I made the spinach and garlic pasta sauce for tonight's pizzas. Quite impressed with my forward planning .. though tonight's tea cooked so quick I haven't got around to thinking about tomorrow, hehe! Ah well, nice whilst it lasted!

Hermione your birthday sounds lovely! And what a FAB DH!!! Ooooooh where is the Denby factory shop and why do I not know about it already?! I usually buy Denby in seconds shops. DH thinks I'm a bit weird because rather than have one full set I like to buy two or four pieces from different sets, usually seconds, and mix and match with secondhand pieces from chazzer shops. It kind of works - everything goes together as it's my taste - and it means I have different sized and shaped bowls for different types of meal / snack (v. important in my little world!)

Re not being the centre of the universe, my friend who gave birth to her first three weeks ago has said that she really mourns being pregnant and it's a bit of a shock that she's no longer the focus of attention. You get so much of it when you're pregnant and now she says it's all about the baby. She realises it's a bit narcissistic, and she's loving being a mum, but it's bound to happen. A similar thing occurred to me when DH and I were talking about family coming down to visit if my and babies in hospital. I said something about people coming in to visit me and he laughed and said no, they would be coming down to see the babies. And I though 'Oh. Oh yes, I suppose so!' Hmm. Think it's all going to take some getting used to!

And Lexi that's happening to me now - work colleagues are more interested in talking about the blimmin' babies than my work/research! Which is fine, because I'm more than happy to talk, but when it replaces what would normally be professional chat ? erm, I am more than the contents of my womb, people!

And Three I really don't want to turn into one of those mums who can only talk about their children. I have people like that in my family and after 30 mins (absolute max.) I just want to hit my head against a wall.

Em yes it's a bit bonkers how much wriggling is going on in my belly! I'm thankful for my anterior placentas else I don't think I'd get any rest! Ohhhh sounds like DS is being a bit trying at the mo! Good luck!

Yay for friend's baby girl, Ethel!

Oh, Pink, that sounds really, really painful. Poor you Hope it heals soon.

Hurray for new car, Rainbow!

Surburban I too feel a bit neglected by my MW. I had appt at 16 weeks and she said see doc at 25 and her again at 28 weeks! I was surprised because I am high risk ? but then again I go to the hospital loads and get lots of nice attention there so can't complain! But I'm currently in a 4-week period with only a couple of appts (doc and physio) and it feels really nice just to be left to get on with it for once. And belly is growing exponentially so I am presuming all is well.

Possom

Interesting to read the further discussions on the childcare / going back to work / SAHM things. Glad I'm not the only one who is determined and / or keen / needs to go back for whatever reasons as I'd feel a bit odd!

Interesting to hear about your situation, October - I presume you're in a field that you can get back into easily enough? Even if DH has traditional views he may well like the more (can't think of right word ... ) stimulated version of you once you go back to work? Because that's the woman he feel in love with, presumably?

Be really interesting to see how it all pans out for us all. And I'm not sure we've talked about it but I am very much presuming and hoping we'll continue our lovely and supportive chatters post-natally!

Good luck with finishing the marking Flowery and hope you get that pain sorted - sounds not so good.

Oh Possum, I waffled on for so long I cross posted with you. No wonder that kncoked you, hope you're feeling a bit better. How is the application coming along?

Manda Thanks. It HAS to get done tomorrow, especially as spent all evening tonight on a MN catch up

I'd been thinking - when I was having DS my boss kept saying, see how you feel, you don't have to make decisions until later etc. etc. which he ment well but I found so frustrating becasue i absolutly KNEW I would be going back. And I did. Some peole will find them selves feeling very different to how they expected once baby(ies) have arrived, but some people know what they are going to want. And of course, both are fine!

manda I'm high risk and only have 4 weekly appts with hospital. No MW, no GP unless I'm ill, no physio cos they've given me crutches and sent me away
I'm finding it difficult to know who to contact if I have a query/pains etc as no MW team and labour Ward won't see me pre 24 weeks. Luckily I'm not too worried yet
GP tomorrow re pain/stress/new Physio referral ( heard there is a specialist Physio for women's health but no one bothered to tell me in the last 2 1/2 years )

Yes I think DH misses the working me a bit but tbh I don't think he realises what an easy life he has when everything at home is taken care of especially in morning he gets up gets ready and goes. Well he does make a baby bottle and a cup of tea . I imagine with 2 working parents that it is hectic in the morning and evening. Also one earner has a lot of pressure on them especilly in the current environment and whilst we have a good standard of living we would love private schools for the boys without having to give up stuff and more international holidays etc.

Also I think working mums get a better life balance but of course that is only a personal opinion!

Won't be very easy getting back to work as bankers are like social pariahs in Ireland but something will come up I am sure.

Oh Backwards - what a awful mistake to happen with your matb1! I would be on my mat leave now as I would of been having my baby in December! Very sad moment but happy feeling this one tap dancing on my bladder!!!!
Also having eating problems I can barely eat dinner if I have lunch at work!!!!! Hated the heartburn issues last time so avoiding eating and laying down for at least 3 hours!!!!!
Was happy to be told by HR any sick days I have while pregnant are recorded but not but on my sick record as you get all sorts of sickness that can't be avoided while pregnant!!!! Yeh I should of known that but as been off work quite a lot with MMC and ectopic was worried about it all! Now no more pushing myself if I'm feeling yuk!!!!!
On the work issue - think its a personal choice and it what work for you!!!
Seen some awful footage of nurseries and childminders really neglecting babies that really made me feel very concerned to leave my baby! Lots of food for thought!!!! My dd2 didn't go as had grandma to keep her! Not a option now as my mum passed away in 2009!

Flowery - it sounds a lot like a trapped nerve. Ask consultant and see if they would recommend you seeing a chiro or osteopath. The lower back pain is probably connected.

Oh the centre of attention thing - I knew I'd missed something! I confess I'm getting a bit bored of some of my social circle, now they have babies being apparently unable to talk about anything but and presuming I can't either. I really appreciate the shared experience chatter & the giggles about inappropriate & uncontrollable farting or belching in public places and the pillow forts in bed etc. But I can still talk other stuff too. I was saying to MrM at weekend that one of my worries is that in going back to work so soon after Socs arrives I may isolate myself a bit. Presently a lot of people seem to assume I'll rethink that once Socs is born - I'd love that freedom but I don't have that financial choice anymore. So will I feel left out because that utter absorption in baby that so many women have for 6-12 months mat leave is something I will only have for 6 weeks? I don't know the answer but I suspect yes. We'll see. My friend who is due any day now said she thinks it's funny that this worries me. In her words "You're so very you that I forget you worry about things like this sometimes." Which was rather sweet of her.

So we're all worried in our own ways. Thank goodness we'll still be chatting once babies are here and can keep on supporting each other!

Manda - well done on productive day.

I think the marking plan sounds like a winner btw.

And whilst we can't have it all, we can make our choices and support each other in them - at SAHMs or working. :)

backward missed the MATB1 thing last night, hope someone apologised!

All the different perspectives are interesting. Like irl I guess. Was just looking at daybreak on itv and some woman is going to talk about being unfulfilled by being a SAHM at 840. Must tune in. Silly getting worked up as it is not like at 24 weeks pregnant I could find a job in the morning. But have everything else in place. Updated cv and gave done a couple of courses.

Yes it is surprising how quick no one focuses on you but I guess that is part of the cycle of life. And mand I imagine it is even worse with twins but in a lovely way!

Off to hairdressers today. V excited and nervous. Hated hated hated the last cut she gave me - wanted a change but with curly/frizzy hair it is hard especially as hair texture has changed so much - so want to go today to try rectify relationship as if I am not happy I will have to find someone else for a Christmas cut! Also got semi permanent dye as a boost and it was dreadful. I looked like a goth. Thankfully it has grown out. Met best friend last week and she said you look better than I have seen you in ages and as DH pointed out it is because my red hair is back!

Better go. Ds has upped his mischievousness. Not naughtiness but he is into everything. Carpet is red this am as he found pre made jelly managed to open the pack. How? And spread it n the carpet. Now it is only an adventure and not boldness but god I now appreciate what my mum said when she used to say I need eyes in the back of my head! Currently he is trying to drink 7up out of an empty can he found in bin....... God help me. Respect to all the mums with 2/3 and more children.

Happy Wednesday.

OC x

Morning everyone. Ugh, sympathies to all with heartburn, I am in agony. I can't remember what I have said on here and on facebook but I had a very frustrating day yesterday trying to get in touch with the MFAU about the pain and no one answered my calls. I tried 6 times and let it ring for ages. What on earth am I supposed to do in an emergency if the hospital are uncontactable? I'm going to have to complain about it I think. Fortunately my local GP surgery is excellent and I got thoroughly checked over by a doctor who said it is gastritis and prescribed me a huge bottle of Gaviscon.

Looks like I missed some interesting discussions last night about childcare. I have it mostly sorted now as the nursery have taken my fee. I put down for a full time place (at their suggestion) and then I will drop two of the days if work agree to let me return part time. I have spent a lot of time worrying about all of this and have come to the conclusion that I really shouldn't worry about it anymore. I need to work, it is part of who I am. I think everyone needs to do what is right for them and there is no right answer. I'm going to ignore any real life judgey comments I get from now on :)

possom That happened to me too with the miscarriage due date :( They put it on the report from my 12 week scan as October, I was upset about that when I noticed. It is a bizarre mistake to make.
manda Ah, I was in a pub somewhere near Summertown so we can't have been in the same place then. It was very nice there. Your pizzas sound gorgeous, I love making pizza. What toppings did you put on them?
Lexi Did you have to put your request in for part time for this early then? I hadn't thought about that. I will try to talk to my boss about it when I finally have my maternity leave dates confirmed.
Ethel Yay for your friend, what lovely news.

Oh someone mentioned us all chatting after the babies are born. I really hope we do! There is a postnatal clubs board on here and it looks like some have been going for years. You are all my friends now so I would love it to continue on there :) Sorry to not chat more but I must get on with some work. Have a great day all.

Oh dear, head hurts a bit today. Just got up ? but only went to bed at 4am. DH was supposed to be helping me tweak my database build for my research project in the evenings this week (I'm presenting the prototype to our advisory board on Friday, so there's a bit of urgency) but it hasn't happened yet and he got back late, then we ate and he watched Science Club, then realised he needed to set up the software again on his machine, which required him reinstalling Windows (he uses Ubuntu - so another platform?) as he only uses the trial version of the software or something. This took 1 hour, by which time it was bedtime and I only had time to show him what I needed. He got a bit tetchy as he couldn't remember how we built damn thing in first place or to make any of the fixes. Went away to scratch his head. Then midnight. So we went to bed. And he lay there fidgeting for an hour so I got up in a bit of a grump and worked till 4am!

I am still a bit grumpy! I didn't get up to make his sandwiches this morning (I'd only been asleep three or so hours and couldn't physically get up) and he seemed to crash-bang-wallop all around the bedroom. Oh dear, we always get tetchy with each other when we try to work together! Funny, he'll do (probably much more interesting, admittedly) software projects for his mates but when it comes to my database (which he volunteered to help with once the scripting got too complicated for me) he's become a bit reluctant. Which is a pain as we're not yet in a position to hand over to a developer.

Sorry, rant over. Just needed to get it off my chest. Filled with enormous sense of foreboding and the need to Get Things Done at the moment. Time is running out, yikes!

Sheldon ah, north Oxford - v. nice! Ohhh pizza was fab. I made the sauce in advance, as I say, and that was garlic (lots!), two frozen lumps of spinach, and finely chopped stalk of celery (don't ask - it goes in everything nowadays!) and for toppings tons of mushrooms, red onion, ham for DH, frozen sliced peppers and lots of cheese and chilli flakes. V. simple and not at all fancy but all my favourite things

Sat here now with coffee and cornflakes ready to attack (sort of) the day.

Physio later at 3pm, for what it's worth. Will ask about these bump belt things. I am getting bigger by the second it seems so anything to help is going to be useful!

Another flying by visit fom me, sorry ladies, I cannot keep up with this thread! Although reading back I utterly sympathise with the discussions on going back to work, child care, staying at home, concerns about being separated from friends because of the choices made or forced upon us. The very fact that so many are discussing this just further shows that we're going to be just fine in the long run because we genuinely do care and think about these things ( sometimes too much! ) I just returned from midwife passing the heartbreaking sight of heavily pregnant women in dressing gowns having issues with unborn children smoking outside the hospital and arranging a night of 'getting hammered' as soon as they are discharged. makes me so sad and furious and yet who the heck am I to judge? ( I have done so anyway!)

I have been a bit grumpy this week , seems to be linked to people 'putting upon me' at work I.e. the usual suspects who palm off their work on your team and take the credit. Usually I float above this but I feel my inner hulk shouting grrrrrrrrrrr in my head! I'm also a bit grouchier when ribs sore etc. anyone got any coping mechanisms? May save someone a mauling!