The We Will Brook No Argument for a totally boring and uneventful pregnancy, in which we shall bloom, and a pain-free birth thread, part 3!

[dreamfeeder]

Hands around a mixture of V-shaped pillows, pregnancy pillows, and re-arranges the glittery vom buckets ready.

Gets the jelly snakes going, along with some Cadburys for good measure, and a strategically placed fruit bowl to disguise the unhealthy choices.

Flicks the duster round, sinks down into a comfy sofa and awaits the rest...

And also - agree Muscial about your poo employer - although Scarlet summed it all up so well, and did such a lot of thinking that I won't bother to write it all again :-)

Pomme yay for a good scan. I'm a bit worried that this bean might have a breech tendency as I'm often getting kicks in the bladder (when I get them - they're STILL not that often!). Then they'll go to the side again and then again straight down. Hoping it pulls its finger and spins round.

When you say an ECV is a 'tad' uncomfortable Scarlet - are you understating it? I thought they were quite a lot uncomfortable? And did it work? I'm worried that if it is breech and they can't turn it I might have to have a CS after last time. Am almost certainly over thinking it at this early stage though!

Forgotten everything else.

Jen - loving your festive creativity - I'm still stumped for a name. Mind you I've probably given it a total of 5 minutes thinking time so far......

Biscuits the weirdest thing happened when I went for my ECV. I decided to go for it rather than opt straight away for the CS. I wanted to have a good go at having a vaginal delivery if possible and I was reassured that there were no risks with ECV for my blood group. (I can't remember what blood group it is where there's a tiny risk if the mothers blood gets mixed with the baby's) and that it would just be uncomfortable. To cut a long story as short as possible there was a really long wait the day I went in to have it done. They do it in a delivery room in case it started labour and I was the last one on the list for that day. While you're waiting you're hooked up to a monitor and laying on the bed. I looked down as I felt the baby move and saw DS flip himself round right there and then. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my body (think Alien like movement and my whole stomach looked like it would explode) I'm glad DH witnessed it or he'd never have believed what it looked like. Anyway, I never ended up needing the ECV. The consultant came in and did another scan and confirmed he was now head down. So all was well in my case. So although I can't speak from first hand experience I was reassured that it was only uncomfortable. But, they could have been comparing it to childbirth when they said that.

How lucky was that! Well if I do need it I shall be brooking for a similar outcome then!

biscuits, I saw the women's health physio just now- just got home. She asked how I was planning on having these twins and I said still undecided but worried about assisted breech delivery for being painful and maybe re-tearing. She said of the ladies she sees with incontinence, specifically faecal incontinence, almost every single one had trauma to the area from a birth with a third or fourth degree tear, but being young and fit (!!??) it's hopefully going to be ok for me (the incontinence is not now- as I'm sure you've noticed, it's later 50's, 60's kind of age) , but she said I certainly wouldn't want another big tear (ha! like I didn't know that!). So for me, as sign of a second breech baby, or biggish babies and I will opt for CS.

pomme, fantastic your little girl looked good on her scan!

scarlet how rude! I had my bump groped at a toddler group by a stranger- I hate it, not that keen on a very good friend touching it, let alone random people

Need to go, my mum here now and DD waking up!

Very lucky. He'd been breech for weeks before that, right from the very first time the midwife started checking what position he was in. It was like he knew.

That is VERY interesting Dream and certainly something I will be keeping in mind.

I think when we get into the 30 something weeks I'll be asking if they can check as I don't want to risk any further damage. As you say - what's already happened might give me a problem in the future!

And DS was 8lb 3 at just before 37 weeks so if I do go much later I'd be worried of having a whopper!

Oh and on the topic of breech or not, at what stage can the mw start to check which way round they are?

I asked her yesterday and she said she couldn't tell yet and that was 24 weeks.

exactly biscuits, there's been enough damage for us already! My DD was 7lb 5.5, and my friend had a third degree tear and her DD was 6lb 4, so can be any weight... My good friend's fiancee is a colo-rectal surgeon, and he does advise some people who are referred to him on re-tearing risks and said he'd look into it and get back to me, but he hasn't yet. He said the stats for over 60 are something like 1 in 50 having a problem of some kind if you have 3/4th degree tear anyway though, never mind further damage!!! my consultant was just quite blase about it- said 'oh well, if everyone with a big tear re-tore we wouldn't encourage you to have a normal delivery again'. But no reassuring stats etc like, 90% chance you won't have another big tear... The physio said she's not sure on that either- like what percentage of people have problems-, as of course she doesn't see people who had a third or fourth degree tear and don't have any incontinence problems. She was very lovely, an I think I'm leaning to ELCS anyway after talking to her, esp with twins, as even if both are head down the second can turn after the first is born with the sudden increase in space, so I really do have t face assisted breech risk if I go for VB. I'm not worried about incontinence in later life yet, I'm still doing pelvic floor exercises etc etc so giving myself the best shot of having no problems I think it says in the info bit in the green notes on when mw starts checking baby's position, but can't be bothered to look right this second, I will soon!

Okay I really need to actually do some work before I leave the office today, but I just had to come on and go at Scarlet's waitress from yesterday! That's outrageous!!! I hate the idea of anyone touching my bump (hasn't happened yet fortunately, but I intend to give anyone who tries a few choice words!). The idea that she would do that to a customer, with both hands, AND add the twins comment!! She's lucky you didn't have any No Brookers in the restaurant with you....!

On the position front, the MW measured the fundal height for the first time this morning (consultant didn't do it yesterday), and told me that Bean's head was up near my ribs on the right. So she is currently breech but not quite vertical (or at least she was this morning, she could be anywhere by now!). I'm 24 weeks today. Different MWs, different opinions, it seems Biscuits. Or maybe it was just that she was able to tell because Bean's head was somewhere easily felt, whereas if she had been lying differently it might have been harder.

Scarlet, how rude! Some people are so weird. Although a Polish colleage told me that in Poland it is considered good luck to grope a pregnant bump, which might explain why so many people do it. I don't like people touching mine in case they think I'm fat. My sister poked me in the tummy at about 16 weeks and said it was soft and therefore all fat and no baby. I wanted to tell her to f*ck off, but was restrained by the presence of small children.

My boobs have started aching recently - anyone else had this? It's at the front/top of my boobs, if that makes sense.

Thanks Scream for your supportive outrage I was too surprised and bewildered by it to respond. DH didn't think anything of it . Dumbledore it's interesting you mention the Polish thing, because I think that she was. So if that's the case I'll let her off. Still don't think the twins comment was necessary though. She could have said table for 3 instead of 4 .

Dumbledore I get all sorts of symptoms reoccurring. I thought I was clear of nausea, but that's returned. Sometimes I have achey boobs and can then go for weeks before it returns again. Same with backache. The only consistent thing I seem to have is wind, nosebleeds, congestion and gagging while cleaning teeth.

I'm so into oranges at the moment. I bought 3 bags of them this morning and will be going back on Monday to buy more. I'm completely off orange juice though. Weird.

Consultant said she would only worry about breech if it was still that way at 36 weeks for reference everyone. C-section has higher risks for people like me so I would definitely try the manual moving thing first scarlet although I'd be hoping for a scenario like yours!

Also outraged on your behalf on the waitress scenario scarlet!

dream - I think even with APS I'd be leaning towards c-section if I had twins. The risk of one VB and one c-section seems really, really scary! I'd definitely not be brave enough to try VB. You've still got lots of time to think about it though.

Hello everyone! I had good mw app today. Good strong heartbeat and everything good with me

So happy to hear about all the great scans and mw appointments. I really can't wait to have a scan and realise there is actually something in there!

I had a really good acupuncture appointment yesterday, it was good just to tell someone else, as no one but me & dp know atm. And she was so excited, she leapt up and gave me a big hug. And she was very reassuring, as she is a research midwife, so knows her stuff.

Have a good Friday everyone x

Morning ladies.

Hope everyone is doing ok today?

I'm just getting up with ds while DH has a lie in again so thought I'd check in quickly. I don't seem to have had any time to post recently although have been reading everything. Glad everyone has had good scans / mw appts etc.

We're hoping to put our tree up today, which will either be lovely or total chaos with a 3yo assistant .

I've decided that rather than mulling my gaviscon I'm going to get one of these for it.

Ooh, I know what I wanted to say, Scream, about starting ML etc. I had planned to start ML at just over 38 weeks, with just over 4 weeks of annual leave tacked on the front so I actually finished at 33-34 weeks ish.

Anyway, ds came at 36+6 so I was still technically on AL not ML but my employer said that they had to start my ML from the day after the baby was born - I think this was law but could have just been our HR policy? So that meant I had something like 6 or 7 days of AL still unused which they let me carry forward and I stuck them on the end of the ML instead. Now we were allowed to carry forward 25% of our AL entitlement anyway which was something like 5.5 days for me or something so I can't remember now if they let me carry forward all of the rest of the days or just the 25% or exactly what happened - I might have lost a day or two in he process? Anyway, it might well be worth reading up on your maternity leave policy to see what it says?

I don't know whether that actually helps with your decision as to finish at 31 or 32 weeks but just thought I'd say.

Right I'm off to look after little biscuit.

Laters Preggos xx

Hi Biscuit thanks for the mat leave advice. My firm has a similar policy, which is the main reason I'm going off so early. I have 6 weeks(!) of annual leave due, and I'm only using 3 days over Xmas. Official mat leave will kick in from the day after the birth, if that happens before my scheduled mat leave start date, and I'm only allowed to carry fwd max 5 days of annual leave. Given my whole 36 week scan / possible early csection, it seems foolish to plan for official mat leave to start any later than 36/37 weeks, otherwise I could lose weeks of holiday. 5 weeks back from 36 weeks though means I'm off from 31 weeks!

I don't know why but I have this weird guilt complex about such an early start! It's prob ideal really, given the highly likely possibility of my sciatica getting really bad after 30 weeks. Still, thinking of maybe going off at 32 weeks and officially starting mat leave at 37 weeks? Even if they decide a csection is necessary at the 36 week scan I doubt it'll be scheduled before term at 37 weeks right? If they decide a csection isn't necessary i've got the same chance of going to 42 weeks as any other first timer, which would waste heaps of my mat leave. It's a frustrating decision to try to make in advance! I'm thinking 32 weeks tho. Luckily I don't have to tell my firm for a while, prob in Jan.

We're also putting up our tree today! So excited, can't wait! I downloaded a bunch of Xmas songs last night to play while we decorate I've also received most of my Amazon pressies, so planning to do lots of wrapping today as well! I'll be popping out to buy some stocking fillers but apart from that all my Xmas shopping is done! Yay!

What is everyone else up to today? Still celebrating great scans and appts I hope? Any brave people venturing out for hardcore Xmas shopping?

Oh and Biscuit I love the gaviscon cap!

Dream sounds like you've got a desalt tough choice with the csection decision. I imagine that if I was expecting twins the possibility of having one "naturally" and the needing a cs for the second anyway, would prob be enough to convince me to just elect for a complete cs in advance. Obviously there are big pros and cons to elcs tho, and that's it a simple choice to make. I'm sure you'll get to the right decision for you tho.

Too sorry to hear about achey boobs! I've been able to avoid that for the last few weeks, but when it does show up it's a nightmare. Hope yours passes v soon! At the moment I just get super-cold-super-painful nips whenever I step outside! Need to start wearing thicker jumpers!!

Apologies to anyone I've missed!

Hate my phone...

I have no idea what "desalt" was meant to be, but obviously I meant to say that choosing an elcs is NOT an easy decision.

Completely unrelated question here but I found out something today and it made me wonder. Does anyone here know the word teasy? I found out it is a local word but had no idea that it isn't common.

Not heard of teasy - what does it mean?

Grumpy. If your ds was playing up at bedtime then he could be described as tired and teasy. I'm just surprised that I got to 30 before finding out that it is local.

Nope that's a new one on me! I've heard of testy meaning similar?

Well I just spent a whole day sat in front of my laptop trying to get this blooming essay finished! I have about 1700 words to go but have decided to call it a day. Hopefully it will only be half a day tomorrow and then can actually turn my attention to Christmas. Once I hand this in I won't have to go back to uni until the 19th Jan - bliss:)
Going to have an early bath and watch a bit of telly. I hope everyones tree decorating went well. I am going to get mine on Friday as me and the boys only have a half day at school!

Hello!

Also heard of testy but not teasy.

Tired and paranoid today. Went to Dh's practice managers retirement do last night- house full of doctors, nurses, hv, receptionists etc. Bit nervous as 3 of the gp.'s, on eyeing up my bump asked (separately, they were 3 separate occasions) if they really thought I'd go to term, and a nurse who used to be a mw said I looked 34 weeks to her... All meant well but . Reminding myself that bar the ex mw, none are pregnancy experts -but all experienced gps

Good effort wants, the end is in sight for this essay!!! Remind me how many weeks you are?! I really don't think i could do any studying when pg, I'm so distracted by thoughts of babies etc, so I'm impressed. Is it purple also essay-ing*

dream - everyone always makes some kind of comment so with twins and doctor types it's bound to happen. I find it annoying with a singleton and non medical dh so I can understand it must wind you up sometimes. Just try and breathe through it!

We moved dd to a proper bed this weekend. First night she was great and didn't get up till 7am. This morning she appeared at 5.30am, kicked us for an hour and hour until dh departed for the spare room and then fell asleep until 9am. I didn't like it! I tried to take her back to her bed at 5.30am but she screamed a lot. Any tips from those with older little ones on the bed transition? She's only 20 months but the bed arrived and there was no space for everything upstairs!