November 2011 - more hand holding, scans and 2nd trimester chat coming up.....

[Katiebeau]

New thread chatty girls.......

Good luck Ali

Snoozle I am sure no one can tell you where you have to have your baby. There is always a choice. If my local hospital were like that I most certainly would not go there.

Snoozle your post rang bells with me, I ended up in high dependency after a fairly big bleed with DS after an emergency section and my care really wasn't great. They sent my hubby home and no one dressed my son overnight or the whole day after :( I'll always feel terrible guilt about that - foundlings are treated better. Warning first timers or those of a nervous disposition might want to not read the rest of this post:
My first trainee midwife was wonderful, really supported me in the birth pool, I didn't need any gas and air til 7cms. But come the shift change I got a mw who couldn't care less, chased me round the room to rupture my membranes against my consent (removing the last chance of DS to get into a birthable position), and then had me pushing when I told her I had no urge to push whatsover, while telling me off for not doing it very well. She looked totally put upon when it came down to trial of forceps or a section. They wanted to use high rotational forceps Keillands, which can cause terrible damage to mothers and which I later found out, led to the death of another baby in the same hospital a month earlier when they were incorrectly applied, I am so grateful even now DS was too high up for them to reach so I had a section. It turned out DS was wedged head sideways, in a position called left occipital transverse, stuck in my pelvis, in something called deep transverse arrest, so he couldn't have been born naturally and was instead getting more and more swelling to his head because of two hours of pointless pushing, with me doing squats, sidelying birthball bouncing, the works to try to shift him.
But I started fitting in recovery, pulled all my lines out, chaos ensued and my DH was left holding the baby really thinking this was it. We were almost off to theatre for packing and a possible hysterectomy when they finally got the bleed under control about two hours later. No one ever came to tell me why I had a section, against NICE guidelines, someone incorrectly wrote up my release notes to say DS was (whole body sideways) transverse not occipital (head stuck sideways) transverse which made me question my whole birth eperience, and I only found out what actually happened by paying for my medical records and piecing through them myself months later.
Sigh, and breathe, I'm sorry if my rant has put the fear of god in anyone, for what its worth up until 7cms I loved my labour, i felt strong, proud, ecited, and in control. That's why I want a VBAC, during the section I felt so removed from it all, like a bystander, then when things went wrong, I felt like a patient.
Sorry again.

Just adding to the stories here. My birth experience with DD was awful too, which is why i want to VBAC (ideally a HBAC) and why I have changed hospitals (DD was born at the Countess of Chester)

My ante-natal care was great but I tested +ve for strepB infection at 37 weeks, which in itself is not a huge concern, but I stupidly agreed to a sweep at 39w as my blood pressure was creeping up (no signs of pre-e though). The sweep caused my waters to go so due to strepB I had no choice but to agree to an induction. This did not go well and I ended up on my back on a bed with IV ABs and the induction drip. They insisted on contant monitoring so i could not move, so became very frightened of the pain as I had an almost annimalistic (sp?) urge to move around to manage the pain. I ended up with an epidural at 3cm, which I bitterly regret. Labour was not progressing and everytime they turned the drip up to speed things up (most hospitals - if you're not meeting their target of approx 1cm an hr, they start getting shirty) DD's heartrate dropped.
My feeling was she was just not ready to come out and labour was induced too early.
So they pushed me for an EMCS.
After she was born, it was unreal. I didn;t feel I had given birth and was woozy from drugs. They put her to me about an hour after the section and I was too dopy to do anything, so the mw hand-expressed colostrum out of my boobs (arrggh!) to give to DD via a syringe.

Ultimately, I recovered well after the section but DD would not feed, my milk never came in and it took about 6 weeks for me to properly bond with her. I am devastated to admit that in the very early days, I left DD crying at about 2 weeks old for over an hour cos I could not cope with her. That still makes me very sad over 2.5 years later. :(

I have since found out that induction uses synthetic hormones and your body needs the natural ones to really start the mother/baby bonding and milk production.
My current mw has also said that in the hospital I am registered for now (Wrexham General), if induction was not progressing they would not turn the drip up but give it more time.

On the positive note though, most consultants do not like induction after a c-section as it increases the risk of scar rupture. So it'll be going into labour naturally or an elective c-section.

Not to put any first timers off - most births are very straightforward but hindsight is a wonderful thing and I am so much more informed this time round. As a first timer, how can you be, as you simply have no idea what it will be like (not meant in a patronising way, you just simply cannot know, and that's not a criticism)
All I do know is that you will cope when the day comes, whatever happens.

I am going to think about the indie mw and talk to DP - so may ask you for the info dirge thanks

Luckily after DD was born we were blessed with a truly amazing sleeper. So much so, I am worried about this one not sleeping as i don;t know what it feels like! DD slet from 11pm to 7.15am when she was 5 days old and more or less has slept through ever since. By 3 months she was sleeping 7-7.

Sister (midwife) has had a feel and Im measuring about 14 weeks! Uterus is well up past bone! Ive only just gone 9 weeks. She felt when I first found out and there was nothing to feel as to be expected so its grown a lot in 4 weeks! Had a wee and everything to check my bladder wasn't pushing it up but it stayed put. Got my booking in on wednesday so going to see what she says and see if I can get scanned quickly. This is my 4th pregnancy so Im wondering if thats why? I grew normally last time though. If it wasn't for the minimal sickness I think I would be worrying about twins but its got to be rare to have barely any ms with twins isnt it?? Sorry Im rambling a bit but I'm slightly concerned and feel the need to know right now what's happening in my womb!

snozzle, poppet and mrsarch - hugs (not very MN) to you all. A traumatic birth followed by a baby who is OK is a tough thing to reconcile. You are so grateful the baby is OK but so bloody shocked by the experience and feel guilty when you feel overwhelmed by it. I couldn't feed although I bonded with DD immediately.

Note to 1st timers - in my NCT group most of the births went just great and all of us came out with healthy babies with no long term issues. That's so important to focus on. Plan away for the best birth for you. See how many of us are back for more????

I'm swapping from my "whatever" stance last time to whale music and chewing on stick!! Or ELCS. Not decided. Nothing in between this time......

Re induction with syntocin - it is OK but don't let them keep wacking it up. Really question this if they do. I was dilating 2cm/hr and they still kept on increasing it as DD was coping. I wasn't..... EPI failed, cannot take anything else as allergic. Induction does not have to take just 10hrs (most hospitals timeline). Nor should it only be tolerable with a EPI. Ask about a proper mobile EPI.

Hello all and congrats to all those who've had good news this week and heartfelt handholding for those who haven't

As it's birth story day, I thought I'd pitch in, although I'd echo what katie said in that most of my nct group had good labour and birth experiences and all will be back for more (FX...). My experience had been informed by my mother who had had a stillborn (sorry to caz for that word) baby before me (albeit 40 years ago so care was much worse then so everyone kept telling me there was no reason why it should make me more at risk) and my sister who had had a horrid time and had taken 4 years to go back for more, so my main criteria was a safe delivery whichever way that came. I ended up being induced at 10 days over and had an epi pretty early on as the midwife told me I'd need one in the end. Arguably, she couldn't have known that but I was happy to go with her advice as DS was back-to-back and had shown no signs of getting moving. TBH the medicalisation worked for me (but then I've had a couple of surgical interventions for cancer, so I have a lot of faith in medicine, just don't get me started on some of the practitioners...) and I liked the fact that DS's heartbeat was being monitored the whole time. Long story short, DS ended up getting stuck - shoulder dystocia (sp?) - and so had to be dug out with forceps with significant tearing, but I was just so overjoyed he was alive and healthy I didn't care about anything that had gone before. Most importantly, I had absolutely no trouble feeding or bonding and so feel incredibly lucky that I was able to move on to the Mummy stage immediately.

I guess what I'm saying is that every experience is different and just because you have a medicalised delivery doesn't necessarily mean you will struggle with the baby, although this was not what our nct antenatal teacher would have had us believe.

First midwife appt is on Tuesday for me, then 12 week scan on Wednesday - just hoping for a live one this time. Hope everyone has a great weekend and that next week brings more good news for all.

Katie good luck to you too - I'll be thinking of you. Just dating scan for me today with Oscar to come a week on Tue. Reading on phone so will reply to all the long stories later

Good luck withe the scan alice!

ImBrian, it does sound like twins! tbh I think with twins you get more MS than with a singleton but if you don't get much MS to start with it might not be much more?

Afternoon all,

Have a half day (the benefits of working flexi time :) ).

As a first timer I think I'll continue in my blissed out little cloud of ignorance about what might happen in six or so months, although my doctor already talked to me about where I wanted to give birth and I've opted for Ninewells in Dundee, which has a midwife unit and a labour ward with doctors and drugs on the floor below, so I guess that if things dont quite go to plan then I wont have to have any ambulance dash's to look forward to. I dont think it's the best hospital out there, but there isnt much choice really.

Lets get back to talking about buggies and new cars, much less scary!!!

afternoon all. hope everyone is ok.

Hope all the scan have gone well.

MrsA I'm having my nuchal test at Countess of Chester. It didn't inspire me with confidence when I called for the appointment and she said "no rush, we don't do that until 31 weeks". I said "my MW said 13 at the latest" and she said "oh that's right". Hmmmm.....

If you're toward Wrexham then the independent MW is even closer to you than to me - she's Shropshire I think.

I'm sorry to hear all of the bad birth stories, birth really shouldn't be like that and I don't blame anyone for trying to influence their birth to go betterthis time.

I won't tell my birth story here, it's all over mn under other names - partly why I name change now. But DD was back to back, I agreed to epidural and syntocinon without really understanding the consequences (epidural puts you on your back making it harder for your baby to turn op and epidural relaxes pelvic floor so baby's head can't get a grip to turn. Drip pushes baby down faster than nature would but before baby can turn). DD was deep transverse arrest too but could be reached by Keillands forceps. I had a 3rd degree tear which was misclassified as less serious (they now believe it was a 4th) and do only partially repaired. I think my long term prognosis is a colostomy bag but no one will commit to saying when. I'm fine right now but the damage is done and a future CS won't avoid that colostomy so I'm going to gave the birth I want.

I think staying home longer in labour would gave benefitted me, giving DD chance to turn on her own (she was by the way, I had signs of her moving). I also wish I'd have researched epidurald and syntocinon. Having said that, women in labour shouldn't need a medical degree to give birth, the hospital should have told me that that combination with an OP baby was high risk for intervention.

making it harder for your baby to turn OA*

Sorry!!

Just a quick one as have to dash and pick up LOs - scan all fine, what a relief. Now dated 10+5 and seen heartbeat, arms, legs - all the good stuff :) also now seeing consultant next week

Annoyingly dirge by changing from Chester to Wrexham, we now have to fund our own nuchal scan and when DD arrived in 2008 they didn't offer nuchal at Chester on the NHS.
Typical.
So that's £169 to find in May. Hopefully be worth it.
TNH just doing the research on this is helping me with my decisions. I still think indie mw will be out of our reach, even at £1500 (nned to talk to DP) but I am getting things sorted out in my head, IYSWIM.

The final straw for Chester for me was when I was in special care post natal ward cos DD had IV ABs too, despite me having ABs during labour AND I had a section, and my milk hadn't come in so they were cup feeding her donated bm and they wouldn't let me feed her so I could start to bond - it was HCPs only. And one health worker made me cry at 3am. I sat watching her feed my tiny girl and I asked her a clear question and she completely ignored me, fed DD, out her in the cot thing and then just walked out in silence.

Sorry - I should stop this now cos this thread is about positive new life on it's way. Sorry ladies - mememe today. Not good.

All is fine. And breathe.

Well it sounds like we all have some war stories to tell. To echo others to reassure the newbies, I was the only one out of my NCT group to have a really 'tits up' birth eperience - even the mum of twins managed it just fine! And most importantly DS was just fine, although I think we only just managed bfing by the skin of our teeth because I ws so out of it for the first day. That said he did have appalling colic for three weeks which I think was due to his sore head. And am jealous at the dream sleeping babe mentioned above. He slept reasonably well for the first three months then didn't sleep through for the net 13!
Birthwise I think the best advice I'd heard was to accept that you can plan only so much to get the birth you want, you can do everything right, but some of it is down to sheer bloody good luck. This time I want to use a TENs early on, because I know it'll be a battle getting near the pool so I want as much low level alternative pain relief as I can get, I will growl and bare my teeth at anyone that tries to break my waters without knowing babies position and I will push when I'm damn well ready to push.
On a lighter note, yey for all the good scan news, and back to pushchairs.
And Imbrian (great name btw) I hope they solve your sizing mystery v soon. Hopefully it is just because your bodies an old hand at this!

I had 2 very straight forward births then a 3rd which ended as a ventouse in theatre but I have no doubt that this was due to me deciding I wanted an epidural as I was scared of being induced. It was fine and straight forward though. So normal births do happen and even the ones that go slightly tits up can still be positive experiences :) Think Ill try and avoid an epidural this time but it was great not having any pain I must admit.

I have had two normal and straightforward births - one without any pain relief except visualisation and yogic breathing, one with one shot of pethadine (that was the first birth) so I feel blessed.

I am hoping for a water birth this time around if possible - we have a new midwife led centre near us with 12 brand new en suite rooms with pools so fingers crossed I can use this.

So don't panic too much first timers, it is perfectly possible to have an enjoyable and in control birth, I hope that everyone on this thread achieves this.

Urrgghh I haven't had any births but all these stuck babies and tearing are putting me right off! Can they feel what position the babies in through your stomach or do they scan you to find out?!

Thank you poppet, notjust and knocked up for your stories on stomach muscles, I've shared them with my friend, she's seen the consultant now and they're planning to sew the two sides back together which sounds good.

I've poured two alcoholic drinks down the toilet today - one at the pub at lunchtime - I asked for an applejuice and got a pint from a jolly colleague... then this afternoon there was pink champagne for one of the girls who's off for 3 weeks to get married. I feel bad pouring champagne down the sink but if I can't avoid booze at work, where am I safe?!

I've got a Hawaiian party to go to tomorrow and I hope that's my last night of lying! Scan on Monday! Feel quite excited and anxious about it. I think they do everything at the same time. They think I'll be 12+2 I think I'll be 10+2 coz I've never had a cycle less than 40 days but always completely irregular. I'd quite like them to be right so I'm past the anxious nauseous first trimester and then hopefully the glowing healthy stage starts...

MrsA (hug) Some people can be so cruel. I had a 'normal' hospital birth with my first, but the staff were awful which is the main reason the following two were homebirths.

My first homebirth was very theraputic for me, probably because I could relax and whinge as much as I wanted without comment and only had medical people around for about an hour (baby came quick so paramedics were sent in front of midwives - everyone was so lovely even though it was 3 in the morning) before having a peaceful nap with the baby. I'm hoping to replicate this as much as possible with this birth.

My second homebirth wasn't so good, even though it was at much more pleasant time, as the midwives were obviously stressed out (spent most of the early part in my dining room making calls to cover themselves while they were with me), and were quite new and textbook (a lot of telling me what I "needed" to do) and seemed unable to let go of that to see what I really needed. This led to whole thing being a lot more stressful and draining, rather than uplifting like the previous one, and though the birth went well, they textbookly wisked her away to do the checks (in the previous homebirth, baby had sat with me for almost an hour before they took her to the checks while I washed up) and pressued me into having that injection for the placenta. I'm not much up to fighting just after giving birth, and ended up having a severe adverse reaction to it and having a hospital transfer for manual removal, where I found the staff hadn't improved -- except the theatre staff, they were lovely and actually told me what was going on and were interested in how I was feeling and reacting to things and my medical history, everyone else ignored my questions, blamed me (the midwife in charge of the high dependency unit refered to me as the "hippie who was taught a lesson"), and didn't even right down my reaction in my medical notes.

Thanks for all the positive encouraging stories!!!

This is my first time, and the mw has really pushed us towards a homebirthj which we're considering. But also have the option of a birthing centre, which sounds similar to the one mentioned above, or the local hospital. The hospiutal is only 5 mins in the car, so that is swaying my decision towards a homebirth, with the option to transfer if needed.

Really want to go for as natural as possible, though maybe some gas and air just to make me feel like I've got something to help!

I know my mum had 3 really easy births with us, so hoping I will be the same!

Finally finished work ahead of a week off! Yay! (Except I didn't quite get everything done, have a few things to finish off, which I'll probs do tomorrow morning, but can't wait to have a relaxing week! I've been so exhausted since being pg, i really need to catch up on sleep!

Hope everyone has a nice weekend planned?

Ali Congrats on scan!

I'm just off to teach a class but I had to comment on smiling your post made me laugh "if I can't avoid booze at work, where am I safe?!" - never a truer word spoken!

and notjust I am absolutely shocked at your second birth story but hopeful for this one.

Got to dash, will check back later x

Hello Everyone, back from the scan and picking up DD and bedtime.

All looks good but have to wait for the blood tests, I will get a call Monday evening with the final result. Scan was good, 1.6mm NT, nasal bone was there, baby measuring ahead of dates and very active too. Consultant said "we needs the bloods but with those results I would be startled if anything was wrong". He then said he would rather repeat the bloods 1st before more invasive testing if there was a high risk coming though. Baby made us laugh "punching" the uterus wall all the time and turning to face us and "wave". 53mm already so I think I about 12 weeks today and late October due date. Still sticking around here though if that's OK. Oh and something new, they weighed me! This is so they can assess the blood results more accurately. I was well chuffed. 4lbs up from "conception weight" after breakfast and wlunch and fully clothed!!!! I has gained 10lbs with DD by now.

Anyway I'm very reassured although I know bloods can throw the result.

I think talking about cars and things is good. We have a Ford focus (older model, not this years posh one!) and and not very practical Focus CC bought before DD!!!! My hubby swears he can cope with 2 car seats in the thing.

I hope we get on with the private consultant and midwife team on Tuesday. I'm not paying if we don't.

Good news alicat!!

My grammer is rubbish!!!

Smilingcl they generally try to work out a baby's position by manipulation through your tum - they only scan to check if they suspect a baby is breech - any cephalic (head down) presentations the mum is generally epected to get on with and birth okay. Although a few of us just like to show off instead :S Can i just say occipital transverse is a very rare position for a baby to end up in. We just seem to have a cluster here!

And that 'hippy who was taught a lesson'. That is just absolutely bloody appalling. Did you complain?