The hugely supportive thread in memory of all our twinkling little stars, bobbing sunflowers and dancing butterflies supporting those bereaved by the loss of a child

[peterpansmum]

In memory of our gorgeous Gregor

Is feeling lots of pent up frustration and irritation today at no one in particular - so am going to use this positvely to give shabs employer, former employer I hope!, a slap round the head with a wet fish. What unfeeling tossers they sound!

WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!

Now, that felt good.

Shabs - I have been thinking about you a lot. I suppose you hope there's some sort of natural justice - that once you have lost 1 child, you're sort of excluded from it ever happenening again. Logically, I suppose one knows that's not the case, but it should be.

Thanks for all the other replies - it's reassuring that there is such a range, which I suppose re-inforces there being no right answer.

I suppose I am scrabbling around looking for some sort of route map to make sense of what is happening.

Welcome lavandes. Glad you found us here Going back to work for a few days and then going on holiday sounds like a good plan.

Nice to see you LF. You are always very welcome here. How are you doing?

I wasn't employed when C died, so i don't have an answer SSusan. But I would say, do whatever feels right. There is no right or wrong. If you feel it will be a distraction, then return to work. If you then find it's too much, then take time off again.

LOL Susan thank you for the slapping!!! My old employers went out of business a few months after we lost Matt - I was so sad I remember making all the orders with massive salty tears falling down my face.

I had a very early miscarriage the year before I had the twins and I thought that was the end of my world - little did I know what life held for me. You are right about 'natural justice.'

Lavandes so glad you came to join us...really wish we didn't need this thread but glad that we are all together helping each other. xxxxxxx

+-Hello all ,
Susan , you are right there are a lot of different ways that we all cope and whatever works for you is the right way .

I found out the day after Harry died that I could start my new job whenever I was ready . It was really weird , they did know all about Harry which helped and also the job I was doing meant I could work the hours I wanted too . A lot of people thought that I should have waited but I decided to start work about 5 weeks after he died .

It gave me a reason to get out of bed and tbh I needed that at the time . My dh went back to work after 3 weeks I think and he found it incredib
ly hard and in hindsite I think he should have phased his return rather than going back full time .

I remember when I got pregnant again , I was so scared that this would happen again to me . Nearly everyone I admitted it to told me that "Life couldn't be so cruel" What the buggery do they know eh ?

Just playing out in the back yard with DGS Lewis - the planes are coming into Manchester thick and fast....LOL - its like when it starts raining really hard and everybody is scurrying to get home!! Lew is shouting 'Bye Bye Mister' to every plane. We are about 25 minutes drive from Manchester airport but we are on the incoming flight path.

Hope Shelley is on her way home xx

lf... I just wanted to let you know you werent alone didnt think for one min you were miscalling me or anyone else

just wanted you to know you werent alone

Saturday marked 14 months since Gregor died - I got really drunk and rolled in at 4am!! I feel like I've been on self-destruct mode since March. But that's gotta stop soon. I feel like I may have turned a little corner though - does that sound daft? x

Not silly at all PPM.

Sometimes we need to cut loose, then one day you wake up and realise you've turned a corner and you think 'right, that's enough of that'.

I feel like self destruct mode has been firmly ON PPM but feel a bit brighter today, I think some of my issues may be physical and not just me being a nutter. I have lots of symptoms of postpartum hypothyroidism (extreme hairloss fatigue fuzziness periods every 2 weeks -TMI sorry-and other stuff) also the panic attacky stuff a month or two ago would fit in the phase where you have too much and now it has dropped. Tbh I'm not sure but I have booked- finally- a GP appt for Thursday [terrified] and maybe some of it is L-linked and some is something else, I would prefer it if I could be 'fixed' and feel normal with some pills, but perhaps I am kidding myself and it's all about L

frasersmummy thank you I think that could be the bets way forward, I know there are benches which are not dedicated tp anyone there and I can't see the problem as most of the benches have little plaques on in memory of someone. I wrote to a local blogger who posted it and some local politico saw it via the blog and sent an email address for their contact for the park director but no reply- perhaps they were only doing it for electioneering!! Also tried friends of the park and the park directly and no reply to anything as yet.

LF you are no fraud, any loss is horrific. It's nowhere near as bad as losing a child but my dad died before i was born and I had real issues about it growing up because people would say you can't miss him if you never knew him which I know is utter bollocks. I missed eevrything, the chance to have known him, the life we could have had if he'd lived, the role of him in my life, I missed so much. I am grateful with DD that although I thought she was a well little girl and the shock of losing her was so bad, at least I had the opportunity to have known her and I have some memories of her.

SSusan I was on maternity leave when L became ill, and was due to return to work when she was in hospital. My employer extended my leave until the end of May. I assumed I wouldn't be going back as I thought she would live and I'd have to be her carer but she died in the middle of April so I had 6 weeks off work following her death, and then went back which was a week after her funeral. It was ever so hard to start with because so many people didn't know she had died, and also because I worked with a bunch of morons who made all sorts of inappropriate comments about death and how it was weird of me to have a photo of her because she was dead (very smiley and alive in the pic taken when she was well!) and made loud 'jokes' about undertakers and what happens to dead peoples bodies.. they also reduced my salary secretly and it was veyr stressful. In fact they treated me horrendously! BUT after I snapped and sent a detailed email to the senior managers all issues were addressed and to be fair the idiots were young staff who didn't know me from before my maternity leave. The staff who knew me were SO nice to me from the second I stepped into the office, they hugged me and some of them cried when they found out.

Anyway sorry for that rant. Once I was back and settled and the ridiculousness stopped I actually began to enjoy my job and I looked forward to going in and time flew by when I was there. I was sad to leave my job to go on maternity leave again, and I do miss it. It was very therapeutic to be treated as a normal competent adult and to be busy all the time. I miss the business because it kept my mind off the crashing awfulness of what had happened.

I would advise you to, if you can, take a break- go away for a week or two- and maybe when you come back research what kind of regular support is available in you area, talking through what has happened, then go back to work when you feel 'strong' enough to put one foot in front of the other. It helped me, with hindsight, because I was so busy. I'm not saying it's the right way to do things but for me it was distraction. If you're able to see someone like a bereavement counsellor on a regular basis and take a day a week off work to do that then it would be a good idea. I haven't but I think it would help. Just after L died I did have 'cups of tea' with a lady at the hospital who was a former nurse, very wise, 60something, a liver specialist and also worked in the psychology dept. I saw her once a week until L's funeral and it has helped a lot.

evening all i got home just after 7pm just over 2 and a half hours after leaving gatwick airport was a bit manic there due to the delays. I had a wonderful time. To make some of you feel better i think the earliest we rolled in was 4am and quite often closer to 6.30-7am lol. I'm rather pleased with myself i worked my way through a bars ful contail list bar the ones containing gin or banana as i can't stand either of them, had mroe taht weren't on the memu including my own one haha.

Just tried having a bit of a catch up with the thread. Welcome to those who have found it while i've been away. Thoughts are with you all.

Thanks a lot shabs for updating me on the airport, couldnt get the bbc site on my phone and didnt want to keep asking DH.... thats really weird to type hehe

Ahhhh welcome home darling. I enjoyed being your roving reporter to be honest. I made myself LOL @ 7am - back door wide open sat in the kitchen with my coat on. Every time I heard a plane engine I went running out and they were all landing at Manchester. There was a plane every few minutes.

What did you think about the Greek people? Was the weather good? Did your DH enjoy himself? I want all the news. Hope you didn't encounter any malakers LOL!!

Thanks for all the advice everyone. A friend has lent us her holiday cottage in the middle of nowhere for a few days, so we are going to see if that helps. We have already been away for 10 days since Catherine died driving around up north, so this is a "one more time with feeling" moment.... DH is finding being at home difficult, so hopefully this will help.

I have to say, I'm not keen on the idea of any counselling. The hosp has a dedicated counselling service, and said we could access it if we got "stuck" in the healing process - whatever the hell that means, as everyone assures me there is no specific healing process to follow anyway....

I'm just of the view, I understand what happened, I accept it was shit luck and that she is dead, and I'm not angry with anyone about it. I am sad and it hurts like f*ck - but I don't see how counselling can stop me being sad and hurting. And I have plenty people who will listen to me rant endlessly about how I feel already, so what's the point in "buying" one more. But maybe I'm being very naive, and will feel differently later

Susan - I felt the same about counselling. Eventually just a few years ago I had to go and see someone. I saw a psychiatrist - but she was female and just kept saying how sorry she was and touching my hand - Im not very keen on being touched especially when Im very sad. Dont know why I am like that because my family are very openly loving and caring. Its just the barrier I put up I think.

I have got more help by talking on here and with my best friend Chelle. She listens to me and I listen to her (she lost both her parents within 11 months of each other when they were in their early 60's) every now and then one of us will have a sob and the other will 'gee' them along.

I did, though, work through the 'stages of grief' without even knowing I was - although not in the order that they are supposed to go!!! I have been so angry that I could kill!!!

I personally find much more comfort on here than anywhere else. xxxx Have you thought about writing down your feelings in a notebook? I did that when we first lost the boys and when I read it back now it is like it was another person in another time. It makes me realise the 'progress' I have made - if that makes any sense?

Morning girls xx

aww bless ya shabs.
They're lovely get quite offended if you dont eat all of your meal think you dont like it but they are huge lol. Met some great ones got good mates in the barman and owner of the 1 bar we went into. well we were there everynight, i spent quite a bit of time behind the bar lol. Weather was gorgeous 23+ hit 32 one day had a bit of rain on night (early morning) and later that day but it didnt dampen our time there. Got quite a tan without realising it more on my front than back though unfortunately. DH really enjoyed it too, think he liked that i could walk around with not a lot on lmao. Him and a PR ganged up on me about me wearing a dress that was short but i wore it anyway on saturday and he didnt complain lol. We want to go back hopefully later this season if we can afford it if not will be next year with ds. He would love it. I cant believe how clear the water is.

We went Paleokatrista and Bella Vista on a day trip and had a taxi boat around the caves its amazing some of the rocks near the water level are purple. One of the caves has pure blue water and saw the blue eye aswell. Caused by the light coming through the gaps in the rock. Crystal clear waters there as its the Adriatic really cold though lol.
Canal D'amour is fantastic had a good ramble around on it. We've ended up with more photos than we got from the wedding photographer (not impressed with that but thats another story lol) Tried greek food and had lots of Ouzo too. Even bout some Kum Quot (sp) liquer home with us its nice but i think the bottles are fab so wanted them

Welcome home Shelley and many congratulations to you and your DH honeymoon sounds great! (!)

Susan I haven't had counselling either just a couple of de-briefing talks with cups of tea at the hospital. I was quite against the idea of full-on counselling I thought it would be a total waste of time, potentially patronising and annoying and not deep enough or I'd have to explain it all over again which would be awful but as time has gone on it has become perhaps a viable choice if I did need to speak to someone, as some days a lot of issues bubble up to the surface and trouble me and even though the feelings are illogical irrational and misplaced etc it would be helpful to get them out. I actually think this thread is the best counselling ever (thanks all!) but do keep an open mind for the future that it may be helpful. There is no worse experience in life than losing your child.

Other news- sunny day here, about to brave THE OUTSIDE WORLD you will be pleased to hear I have thrown away the orange-inducing tan stuff so I am back to pasty yet non oompa loompa shade. I'm sure news of wagtastic tan has been fired abround DP's extended family and I will be laughed at for the next 10 years, but it's almost funny, honest cringe

chegirl if you're around, how are you doing?

Shelley - @ having to eat all your food - you are totally right!! DS4 wont eat fruit and veg so we end up shifting all of his as well - so as not to offend. There's a limit to how much veg one person can eat to be honest LOL!! When the owners of our hotel make their meals they come and find us and bring us a couple of troughs of what they are having. Other holidaymakers cant figure out if we are Greek and part of their family or what the hell we are!! They look after us as if we were family. xxx

Shabba I don't like my personal space being invaded much either. I also hate being pitied. My self image is as a strong, intelligent, independent, resilient woman who always rises to adversity, so I wouldn't have thought much of someone patting my hand either.

I don't know much about pyschiatry, but I think there's some very useful techniques in pyschology - some interesting work around what makes people happy, and good techniques, like Cognititve Behavourial Therapy (CBT). BUT REALLY, I don't need an £80k a year medic to tell me my daughter dying is sad. I can also pat my own hand, thank you very much.

The only wriring I've done since Catherine died (other than here!) is her eulogy. I felt I needed to do that, as I was the only person who could do it - ie. give a positive, joyous account of her life. I'm really proud of myself for writing and delivering it, but it was writing with a prupose, rather for it's own sake.

In the past I've sometimes kept journals and written (bad) poetry at times of crisis. Now I just can't be bothered. Perhaps I should set up a hand-patting consultancy instead... something positive to direct my energies too

Shelleylou It is lovely to read about you having a nice time - it helps me remember I will recover.

I would love to have (I think it is called this) hypno-thereapy - my biggest problem is that if the psychiatrist or GP said 'How are you feeling' I always say 'Fine thanks, how are you??' WHY?????? If somebody could hypnotise me so that my real feelings would come out that, in my opinion, would be the beginning of my 'healing.' I am afraid to let my guard down - because I know the minute I start telling my absolute true emotions and feelings I wont be able to stop, I always have to keep something back.

I must admit to being at peace with Gareths passing - I did everything humanly possible, and then some, to keep him here. I think it took me about 5 years and I 'had a word with myself' about it. I know for sure I couldn't have done anymore.

However, Matts death, although it happened 18 years ago - well, that is a different matter altogether. I know it was not my fault but I feel awful, awful guilt about letting him go out of the gate to play on his bike with all his friends. He was almost 8 and had pestered me for weeks. I finally caved in to his pestering and told him to be careful, not to go on the road etc etc etc. I cant think about the accident because it was too horrific. My DS1 has been told that he suffers from separation anxiety and 'survivors syndrome.' At times it makes him a massive ball of depression and his nerves are shot to pieces. Since he became a first time daddy he says there are some days when its worse than ever. He keeps asking me how we coped, and I keep telling him because we had him to love and care for and nothing was going to part us from him.

My word I could talk a glass eye to sleep xxx

I had hypnotherapy once for a phobia (I was terrified of dentists). I don't think you'd like it. It's not a therapy of choice for phobias, but it made me feel worse. I felt out of control and vulnerable.

I;m not convinced you can take a short cut here. I used to fantastise that all my dental work would be done under a General Anaestic, and then I wouldn't have a problem! But I think the task here, then and now, is to face the fear.

I can relate very much to what you're saying about the difference between Matt and Gareth's deaths. 6 years ago, I told my then bf our relationship was over, and he responded by hanging himself in our home a day or so later. He left a note saying he couldn't live without me. I ended up with PTSD in a total state. His death was gruesome and violent - it was so very hard to come to terms with.

Since Catherine died, I have been thinking about how awful it must be to lose a child to suicide or murder or another violent end. In the hospital everyone was battling for my daughter, and she died surrounded by love and care. It was still awful, but I think that it does make a difference that no one wished her harm, and that everyone tried as hard as they could.

My heart goes out to you shabba and your family. I wish I had something better to say.

Your words are perfect Susan xx

OMG the situation with your boyfriend must have been awful. xx

Just a quick pop in to say hello and to remind myself I'm not alone.

Shabs, you may be able to talk a glass eye to slepp but oddly enough you don't REALLY talk about Gareth and Mattie all that much I don't think. I mean, you talk about them but not about deep stuff about them. SO it's nice to hear - at least I think it is!

Kyirrie has got an ear infection - 2nd in a month. SHe apparently has a perforated ear drum. I know it's really common but none of my others have ever had ear problesm so it's all very new to me. And the poor little love has had such a crappy start to life that I just want her to have it easy for once! Not have green snot-like stuff oozing from her ear! The joys of motherhood!

I hope Kyirrie feels better soon FMN. DS2 seems to suffer with all things ear related too.

Shabs - I lol at talking a glass eye to sleep. I've never heard that before

Welcome back Shelley, sounds like you had a great time

I haven't had counselling either Susan. I took much the same approach as you tbh. C had died, it was totally unfair, and I now had to find a way to live my life without him.

For me it was something I had to do. Having someone to talk about it with wouldn't help. Tablets wouldn't help as they would just mask what I was feeling.

I was pg with ds2 about a month after C died, and I had quite a few issues with having another baby so soon, but my MW was great and listened to me and held me when I cried.

However, I still haven't ruled counselling out in the future. For some reason, I feel once my busy baby days are over I will need to talk about it then.

I'm waffling aren't I?! .....