Lost our little girl... why???

[jangus]

I'm new to this. On the 14th March I went in to be induced at 9days over, they told me I was the least favourable to go into labour out of the three of us that arrived and I was given a pessary. After an hour they put a monitor and after a while noticed blips with the baby?s heartbeat and I was having regular contractions. I stayed on the monitor for a couple of hours and was then moved through to the labour ward. When I got there they decided that because I was not dilated at all and they couldn?t break my waters I would have to go for a section, so I was prepped. I was given an inhaler to stop the contractions and then a doctor came said that he would leave us for another hour and see if things settled down. he came back said things looked better and I was taken back to the other ward. I was left from about 10pm that night and no one looked near me until 10am the next morning because the doc on duty was called to theatre. When I was put on the monitor the baby?s heart rate was sitting around 150 (the previous day it was 140). I was examined at about 11.45am and told that nothing had changed but there were still dips in the baby?s heartbeat all morning. At 12.10 I was told that I was going through to the labour ward and told to phone my husband. At 12.30 there were a couple of big dips and my notes were taken to the doc and he sent back word that I would have a section at 2pm. At 1pm there was a big dip and the doc was sent for, he came in, looked at the scan and said that the section would still be a 2pm as the baby had recovered from the dip. At 1.31pm her little heart stopped. They said sorry and we are left totally devastated and lost without her..... How can we recover from this?

And not one person would ever think you sounded "self-pitying", don't ever think that.

Jangus, I'm so very sorry about your loss. You need to get some answers. I totally understand you not being able to cope with dealing with the hospital, is there anyone who could do this for you? Could a friend or a relative chase them for you. I have found through recent experience with my husband being in hospital that you have to really be insistent and keep on at them, as no-one wants to take responsibility. You can't be expected to do that yourself and if you don't have anyone who could, send your husband to the solicitors and a letter from them should get you an appointment quickly. Don't give up, and hold on, I'm so sad about your loss x

Jangus, just to say "hi" and to let you know I'm thinking of you and your dh - please keep talking to us - hope we can help you, take care

jangus, how awful that this has happened to you i recently had a misscarriage and had a stillbirth 15 years ago, but not at term, im sorry but I think its disgraceful that the doc did not give you a c-section when your baby was obviously distressed, to be told that she was perfect is even more cruel in my eyes, I dont know obviously how you feel about this but are you going to ask the hospital to investigate??...once again Im so so sorry, no wordscan take your heartbreak away...love and hugs to you honey.. {{{{hugs}}}}

So, so sorry to hear of your loss, a horrific thing to have happen {{Hugs}}

Words will never be enough to comfort you in your loss, I cannot even begin to imagine life without my little girl. I am think of you.

jangus. I've emailed you but I'm happy to talk to you here if you prefer. In some ways I found it easier when Bo died. I know you're new to mumsnet, I am relatively new too. They're a lovely bunch and I find it helps to get so many diverse views on things. There is always someone here who will come up with an idea or express a view which may not have occurred to you otherwise.

The enquiry into our baby Bo's death is on the 29th April. I've spent so many weeks feeling shocked, sad, angry, determined, back to sad and so on.... that I don't know now how I feel about the enquiry. I was resolute a couple of weeks ago but the photocopies of the notes and CTG traces that I requested are sitting unread again at the moment. I dread seeing the awful events of that night/early morning coldly written. And I dread sitting at that meeting hearing once again how my beautiful little boy died. It is too cruel.

I have drawn up a list of questions that I wish to be answered and sent them to The Head of Maternity Services. When you feel strong enough/able to I suggest you do the same. I know that Mr Bubble and I are going to feel so upset at the meeting and I want to make sure these questions are answered even if we are not able to ask them there and then.

Thinking of you.

BubbleXX

Jangus ... this is so awful that this happened. I don't know what to say ...
Sending you hugs {{{{}}}}

jangus, you can mail SANDS from the website. But they are quite used to people ringing them up and squeaking or crying. They understand.
NO-ONE, as MM says, thinks you are remotely self-pitying! Good grief, after the death of a child?
Post here as often and for as long as it helps. Bubble is right, sometimes friends and contacts in RL are what you need, sometimes it helps so much to pour out your feelings via the keyboard.
Sending you and your dh much love. XXX

Jangus, I just wanted to add that I am thinking of you too, so much. Your little girl sounds commpletely gorgeous, what a terrible, terrile loss.
Don't ever think of apologising to anyone for how you feel, or 'getting over it' or anything like that. You feel what you feel and are entitled to a world of sympathy and understanding.

Jangus - have read this thread with a tear in my eye, i can't begin to imagine what you are going through. I have recently had 2 m/c's in the last 4 motnhs and that was heartbreaking enough for me, but to have gone full term must be terrible.
I don't think you should be anywhere near normal after just 4 weeks, give yourself time to grieve, if you want to cry for 6 months, then do it. I would definitly go to the hospital demanding answers, regardless of their stupid replies. I woudl wantt o know exactly why they didn't think it was such an emergecny, surely its not worth taking the risk and they should have checked and checked until they knew lille-mae was ok.
Just reading your message made me mad at them for you. That is no answer to give you, you need an explanation. I know this won't bring your beautiful daughter back but at least it might give you some closure on that part of your grieving process.

My thoughts are with you, take care of yourself and your DH. we're all here for you.

Thanks for listening.
I really do feel that things are falling apart. It will be 5 weeks tomorrow since we lost Lilli-Mae, and the pain feels exactly the same. Although I am aware that even though I am looking at her pictures and all her little things and I am talking non-stop about her, really I'm not thinking about it...I'm not really thinking about what she is missing, what we are missing and the enormity of what we have lost...because I don't think I could take it, the few times I have let myself slip and nearly considered those things it has been almost suffocating...too much to bear, so although I can say it, I can't believe it, nor can I sit in the quiet and really consider what has happened. And I know that people around me must think that it is good that at least I can talk about her...but they don't really know what I'm doing in my head or how I really feel about it, because I don't know myself.
Sorry i'm just rambling now.
Bubble, I should have looked here, but I emailed you first.
I will log on later again.
x jangus

Hi LGJ,
I just noticed that you said hi in another chat... the only other one I've looked at.
There were some really nice names there, but none of them would have made me change from Lilli-Mae.
x jangus

lilli-mae isa lovely name jangus.

Hi

I am so sorry for your loss, my daughter was stillborn at the begining of December and my world stopped. It does get easier to get up every day. Please let me know if you want to ask me anything. We burried my daughter and I visit her every day. Sometimes I spend the whole day at the cemetry, but its something I need to do. However you cope with this is OK and noone is the same.
Love Beag

Jangus your story reduces me to tears, as does Bubble99's. I can't even begin to comprehend what you are going through and all the words I want to write here just seem completely inadequate.

dh's mum lost a little girl who was stillborn at term. She was taken away the minute she was born, wrapped in a blanket and only got a glimpse of hair sticking out above the blanket. They were given no explanation as to why she had died, nor did they have a picture or lock of hair to keep. Incredibly the baby was never brought to them so they could say goodbye to her and nor was there a funeral for her.

Having a picture, lock of hair, footprints etc might will help you. I really feel for you, your dh and the loss of your beautiful daughter Lilli-Mae - what a gorgeous name by the way.

jangus - I am so, so sorry to hear about your devastating loss. Lilli-Mae sounds beautiful, I can only imagine what you must be going through not having her with you. Thinking of you and your family and sending you [hugs]

Anyone there?
I have phoned again to get the appointment from the hospital... and still nothing. But, I did request a copy of my notes, so they are going to send me a form to fill out and then I have to pay £20 and then I should get them. I also phoned the hospital I had an operation in during Sept 01 (they removed one ovary and repaired the other one) and I am going to get my notes from there as well.... the two things may be unrelated but I want to make the point that no-one ever listened to me when I went for any of my appointments, and that includes when I gave them my medical history.
What else do I need to do?
jangus xx

Can't advise too much on procedure, but would say if you want to phone the hospital again, ask to be put through to head of complaints - every hospital has a complaints department.

Ask whoever you speak to for their name, and make a note of it. This tends to spur them on to doing something if they know you know who they are if you know what I mean.

Can't help too much on the practical side, as have no knowledge, but am thinking of you and am here if you wish to natter.

I know I shouldn't but I kind of feel guilty when I am always phoning the consultants secretary and being a real pest... stupid, because I know that I have every right. It was 5 weeks yesterday, and I havent heard from anyone apart from the midwife visiting me about 4 times to remove stitches etc (she was fantastic I have to say) but is that it... the end of care?? I don't even know if I want to see anyone or if it would help, it's just that everything stopped and I feel like the professionals just think that I should be ok again now.

The last thing you should be feeling is guilty.

Is there anyone else, husband/partner family/friend who could just take the burden off you to make the hospital phone calls?

Everything must seem such an effort and you shouldn't be doing anything that causes more stress.

Can you ask your midwife for more help? I'm sure she has access to all types of contacts ie health visitor, counsellors, SANDS and probably loads of others and she could contact them on your behalf.

Ask her, you will need help for as long as you need help. There are no rules in your situation.

jangus, there are three possible sources of "on the spot" info for you to access.

1. PALs - the Patient Advocacy and Liaison Service should be able to guide you through the process of getting some answers from the hospital about Lilli-Mae's death. All hospitals should have this service available to patients and their families

2. Bereavement midwife - many hospitals have a specialist midwife on hand to support parents whose baby has died. I know they vary in approach and helpfulness (I was really lucky with mine) but it is worth checking with your hospital to see if they have someone in this role

3. If no bereavement midwife, then ask the Chaplaincy. Hospital chaplains know their way around a hospital's systems and management but are independent of clinical services. You do not have to be a practising Christian to call on their help.

Whereabouts are you? There are people on Mumsnet in London who might be able to give you some extra guidance depending on your location. You should not be having to deal with all of this solo on top of your grief

Have SANDS been any help?

I have a copy of their useful book, "When a Baby Dies", which looks at all aspects of parental and healthcare professional's experiences. My baby died nearly three years ago so I no longer have need of it, CAT me if you would like it.

I can't be the only one here disgusted that you are expected to pay £20 for a copy of your own notes in these circumstances.

Sending you hugs {{{{}}}}

Marina... I live in Northern Ireland, and I have been given a leaflet about SANDS... but I have yet to get the strength to call them. The thing that confuses me is that the numbers on the leaflet are for 3 ladies who live in NI who have gone through the same thing. I'm not sure if I need to speak to them just yet... I kind of feel that I would like to speak to professional people so that I can deal with some of the issues in my head. And for the meantime I can look at Mumsnet, which is easier than speaking on the phone or seeing people face to face.
I have also just heard from my Mum that my own doctor only was told about losing Lilli-Mae this morning, he had been on holiday at the time and then no one thought to tell him, Mum said that he is really unhappy about what has happened and he will be looking into things closer. But, the fact that 5 weeks passes before my own doctor is told (and even then it was only because my Mum and Dad made an appointment to go and ask him about help for me and Mark!)...it makes you wonder what kind of system they have.

just to reiterate a point.... when my Mum and Dad went into the Doctors office and then asked him about any help that would be available for us did he ask why.... and then my Mum and Dad had to explain everything....and that was the first that he had heard of it.

Jangus - I have only just seen this and feel SO sad and angry on your behalf. I cannot begin to imagine how anguished you must feel. To have such a beautiful, perfect little daughter snatched away from you because of medical negligence.
I am terribly afraid that you may be right and this may be a result of the government guidelines on c-sections. When will they learn?
Self-pitying is the LAST thing you are. This is the most terrible thing I can imagine - to lose a child.
Lilli-Mae sounds so beautiful. A friend of mine lost her first child - a boy - in labour. He also had lovely red hair. She found a lot of comfort in contacting Sands.