For Jonny, and all our darling departed sisters and brothers..."their diminished size is in us, not in them".

[evansmummy]

I have remarked over the last few months that there are a number of us on this forum who are living through the death of our brothers and sisters. I would even go so far as to say I never even imagined there could be so many!

I have also noticed that the thread for bereaved mummies is the most amazing place of support, a great place to go and say how you feel without being judged, and knowing that others are going through something similar. And of course a place to go and get a good old MN hug.

So I wondered if those of you who have lost siblings would like to join me in making a place where we can say how we are feeling and to be here for each other, and even to gripe and moan! If you are interested, just let us know a bit about your sibling and a bit about your grief journey if you like. I'll start!

My youngest brother Jonny died a little over five months ago as a result of head injuries sustained during a hit and run accident. My family spent a week in intensive care with him in a coma before he died of heart failure on Fri 30th May 2008. Horrible, just horrible.

I feel down most of the time. But will admit to the strangest mood swings, from very depressed to almost hyper-excited. I still drink and smoke a lot, but less than right at the beginning. Suffice to say that things are not getting easier or better. Maybe even the opposite. I'm dreading Christmas, Jonny's birthday, and then the inquest and court case. I hate it all so much and wish often that it would just all go away. I still can't believe I'm writing this tuff about my own brother.

It's hard to quickly put into a short paragraph the pain and turmoil of the last five months. But I'm sure if this thread works out we'll have plenty of time to go into more detail.

Over to you...

Love Me xx

Was in London yesterday. Loved being there as usual, broke my heart as usual as my brother is around every corner. The awareness I have of him while I'm there is overwhelming.

I read a beautiful poem the other day about two sisters, one of whom has died. The other is writing about how her sister made her feel and it summed up so much of my relationship with my brother. Will find it and copy it out here for you all.

I don't have a place to go where I see Jonny. Except at home, I guess. He was away for four years in Leeds, so I assume his mates probably remember him there a lot. But for me it's all snapshots really. I find that disappointing. I can imagine it's hard for you, too, having so many memories attached to places.

MissM, I'd love to read that poem.

I wanted to ask my parents and/or brother in Canada why we decided so quickly to turn off the life support. I'm sure there was a reason, ie. something the neurologist told us, but I can't remember. I also just want to remember the sequence of what was said to us and when. I still think about those questions I wanted to ask the consultant and never got the chance to. But now I think, would knowing make any difference? I sometimes wonder if a mistake was made but it's true that I'd rather not know that. But all the physiological stuff that I don't remember so well, I'd like to have it straight in my mind.

It's agonising EM as he is everywhere in London. When I'm here I have no associations with him as we moved a couple of months before he died and he never visited us here. So although he is inside me here he is all around in London. I can't go anywhere there without feeling him.

I think you wanting to know the answers to those questions is completely normal. After Jim died my mum went to see the consultant who was in charge of his treatment at the hospital and spent a long time asking her lots and lots of questions. The upshot was that there was nothing else that could be done, but my mum really needed to know that.

For a long time I was obsessed with whether Jim's last breath had been out or in. I was too scared to ask my brother who'd been with him when he died, but when I finally did ask he couldn't honestly remember. We talked about it a bit and something that had been everything to me became less important - I kind of got over needing to know and it helped move me past that stage somehow. So perhaps if you could manage to ask those questions you'd rest easier, even if the answers were no different.

Here's the poem (have some tissues ready). I guess it's more of a prose poem than a poem poem. It's from a teenage novel about a girl whose sister dies at the age of 19. The girl writes poems about their relationship and her loss, and somehow when I read the end of this poem it summed up how my brother would make me feel about life. He would always make me see and do things that I was fearful of or too cautious or too 'straight' to do or see.

There were once two sisters who shared the same room,
the same clothes,
the same thoughts at the same moment.
These two sisters did not have a mother
but they had each other.
The older sister walked ahead of the younger
so the younger one always knew where to go.
The older one took the younger to the river
Where they floated on their backs
like dead men.
The older girl would say:
Dunk your head under a few inches then open your eyes and look up at the sun
The younger girl:
I'll get water up my nose
The older:
C'mon, do it
and so the younger girl did it
and her whole world filled with light.

MissM, I love that poem. Very beautiful. I love the was it so simply expresses the bond between siblings - the way trust is built between older and younger. I love it.

At the time of Jonny's death I really wanted to talk to the consultant. I tried to get in touch with him, he eventualy wrote to me saying that he didn't have the paperwork and couldn't ahve it til afer the inquest, and that he would get back to me to fix a date to meet. He didn't ever get back t me, and it seems kind of pointless to pursue it now, even though I have questions that I would like answers to. It's like I've come back to that place where I need to grasp onto something in order to keep my mind off the reality.

I will maybe try and ask either my mum or brother about those other things. I need to pick the moment though, you know. Not easy as I'm not likely to see them for a while and not sure how appropriate it would be over the phone. Like you say though, I don't know how much it really matters.

I think it's outrageous that the consultant didn't get back to you. Yes he's busy, but professionally he should absolutely have followed it up. Not having the paperwork is hardly an excuse. My brother's consultant spent a couple of hours with my mum - maybe she's particularly good, maybe cancer consultants are particularly professional, I don't know. But it helped my mum enormously.

Very very hard I know to speak to your brother or mum. can you try your brother first? Or compose an email?

Sorry if I wasn't clear EM. I didn't mean that the questions or answers don't matter, I meant that once I had asked the question it stopped mattering so much so I was able to get through that bit of anxiety. Your questions really do matter, and if the answers are still exactly the same it will hopefully at least help you that you've found that out. Does that make more sense?

i love that the poem shows how the girl's sister brings light into her world by making her do something that she wouldn't otherwise do. After Jim died I told a friend that it was like a light had been switched off in a room for ever - it really felt like that.

Hi everyone.Lost my little brother to cancer nearly 4years ago.Still can't sleep properly.i wake up looking for him :( i'm half asleep when i look into hall so don't realise that es not there until i wake up properly.i make out a face in the dark hall.its defently not a ghost,its a dream thats carrying on,if that makes sense

Daisy, thanks for posting and sorry you're having such a hard time. Do you have any family that you can talk to about this? My experience is very limited, my brother died 2 1/2 years ago (can't believe that), but I know I still look for him in a crowd. Maybeyour dreams area way of not letting go? Have you had any counselling? Maybe it would help to talk things through with someone? In any case, please keep posting here, and we will do ou best to support you.

MissM, thanks, I did understand what you meatn about having the questions answered, just I didn't express myself very well. I know there have been things I have been obsessed about, and having the answers, even if they were something I alread knew, just put my mind at rest, as much as it can be anyway. I think it's the same thing with these medical questions. Not having had the answers to begin with, and now having forgotten stuff about the moments leading up to Jonny's death, just amkes my mind whirl. I probably could do an email, and it might be the easiest way. With reagrd to the consultant, do you think it's worth following up even after all this time? A lady I spoke to from a charity called Brake, was also very shocked that I hadn't had a chance to talk through stuff. It's been so long now, and he wouldn't remember my brother, so I wonder if there's any point? Maybe I should just leave it behind me. I don't know.

I do have family to speak to but i'd find it hard to speak to them tbh.we do talk about him when we see eachother but not how im feeling.My grieving has come late.I cried before e died,when e was dying and just after then nothing until this year.I'm really starting to feel it.silly things like android phones starts me off,just cos i know e would of loved one if e was here.even songs i listen to start me off thinking id bet e would love this.then questions go around my head,would e be married now av kids.a certain song if i hear it in pub i litarly breakdown and have to get off dance floor

Just after e died my mum came into front room sed (my bothers name)what do you want for dinner :( it was so horrible to see her remember e had passed away

Hello Daisy, I'm glad you found us. This is a very supportive thread and if you can read it all through you'll find a lot of people who can relate to what you're saying.

My brother died of cancer too and it's the worst thing in the world to watch the peson you love so much literally dying day by day. What your mum said has made me feel so sad - the brain plays very strange tricks doesn't it. Those dreams sound very tough - I know the times I've dreamt about my brother I've been devestated at waking up and finding it was a dream.

If you can, I think I'd contact that consultant. Yes it is a long time ago, but if nothing else they can dig out the notes and it is possible that he will remember him - it's surely not every day you deal with a young man in a car accident surely (I hope not anyway). I think you have a right to ask questions at the very least. Is there someone you could take with you, or help you write the questions down/look through them for you (I don't mind doing that)?

I think they would remember him because hes names been used to help people that have lost limbs but im bery shy and wouldnt know what to say

Very

morning all.
welcome daisy sorry to have had to 'meet' you here.
My younger brother was killed in a road crash 11 months and 2 days ago. I surpose the countdown to the first anniversairy has wel and truely started. ATM his face is everywhere some of that is due to they charity event we are organising in his memory. We've got posters and flyers in lots of shops. At the weekend im going to the street he lived to put flyers through the door, I'm dreading doing that i havent been on that street since we finished sorting his flat out but there are a few people on there who i know will want to know about it so gotta suck it up and do it, thankfully ds doesnt know where his flat was so he can't say its dbs flat.

Hi Shelley, nice to see you back. How are you?

Sorry Daisy, I meant that last part of my post for EM:
'If you can, I think I'd contact that consultant. Yes it is a long time ago, but if nothing else they can dig out the notes and it is possible that he will remember him - it's surely not every day you deal with a young man in a car accident surely (I hope not anyway). I think you have a right to ask questions at the very least. Is there someone you could take with you, or help you write the questions down/look through them for you (I don't mind doing that)?'

Hi MissM. I'm struggling. Trying to keep my head above water i still dont believe my db is dead. I think arranging this charity event is keeping me sane-ish. I'm terrified im going to fall apart after its over with, just want to make db proud. I've decided i want to try and set up a phone line for bereaved siblings as i couldnt find one t all when i was looking so that my goal to work towards and im going to continue fundraising. Not sure what my next thing for that will be yet.

how are you?

Of course you don't believe he's dead - I don't believe my brother is dead most days and it's almost two years (hence struggling also). Sounds like you're doing some good stuff though, and if it keeps you going then all the better. xx

Nice to know me not believing it still is 'normal'. It does help got loads of friends that are offering places to put posters and put them up for me which is good. Just waiting for something to come from a superbike rider and some more bits for the goody bags. Still got 1600 raffle tickets to perforate in 3 places cut out and stick together. Definitely keeps me busy along with all the redecorating im doing.

shelley, I'd definitely agree that not believeing your brother is dead is totally normal. I still don't believe it either. it's the road to 'acceptance', isn't it? It come at different times and in different ways for everyone. Remember there is no right or wrong way to go through this. I hope the charity event goes well. And the siblings thing sounds like a great idea. I think the Compassionate Friends have a siblings section, but I found it hard to get into, and there aren't any groups that meet around here for siblings. That's something I would be interested in doing at some point.

MissM, I've started talking to my brother about how I'm feeling atm, and I'm interested to hear that he hasn't found a resolution to it all yet either (his words). I will try and find the courage to put my questions to him in an email this weekend, and hope he isn't hurt by them. As far as the consultant is concerned, I am still hesitating. I really don't want to go to Leeds, it means an overnight stay which isn't easy with a family, as you know, and I don't know if these sort of questions can be asked over the phone. Also should I write to him, or call? If I get that far, I'd love you to look over my questions, thank you.

Have had too much red wine so not in a good place to respond so will give what you say some thought when I'm more sober. I know you hate Leeds, but perhaps going there might be the best thing - a phone call could be difficult, particularly if he's not got the best bedside manner as seems to be from the response you got initially. I think if you see him though you need to be really clear that you want an hour (or whatever) with him, not ten minutes, and you need to have this conversation. Is there anyone who might go with you?

Too late and too boozed. Will check in again. xx

Well, I managed to ask my brother that stuff, and we had an email conversation about it. I was shocked, sad and annoyed with myself for having remembered some of it wrong. Isn't that weird? I'd ben convinced since I'm not sure when of some things that actually didn't happen how I thought they had. It was very sad to hear it all through, and to hear that I'd got it wrong, and to find that he remembered it better than me, but it has put some of my fears to rest.

He thinks I should phone the consultant if I need to. I'm still not sure.

Well done EM, that must have been very hard to do and the answers hard to hear. But at least as you say you can put that part of this awful thing we're all trying to make sense of to rest.

I took the plunge and rang Cruse today and they took details and will match me with a counsellor. Nervous about it but felt so despondent today that I had to do something. So we shall see.

Well done MissM. I hope it does you some good. I'm thinking of re-contacting mine too, don't feel like I'm getting anywhere.

Keep us up to date on how it goes. Thinking of you.

Binary, thinking of Caroline and you today xx

The next talk on the course I am on today doesn't start for 25 minutes so just time for an update.

The wording for the gravestone for Caroline, Mum and Dad has been done and the stone engraved. Basically it is a triple width memorial with each of them on a separate section. Being non standard of course it cost extra, so no surprise there. The plot was also an issue since it is for 1 burial and 2 cremations.

The cemetery/churchyard is lovely and I still go there about every couple of weeks just to sit and think.

My newish job (as a teacher) is going well and the 11-18 school did very well in the exam league tables which helps.

Bye for now!

Hi all,

I've been feeling increasingly uncomfortable about having included Simon on the remember list, for various reasons, and the recent trolling situation has resolved my desire to remove his details. If you don't mind I'm going to report any of my posts that have included him on the list, and if at all possible I'd appreciate it if others could do the same, although it is everyone's choice of course.

Got married two weeks ago and it was wonderful, absolutely our perfect day despite the missing people. Which sounds a bit strange.

I'm going to namechange and lie a bit low from now on so won't be around much, but I will be thinking of you all :)