For Jonny, and all our darling departed sisters and brothers..."their diminished size is in us, not in them".

[evansmummy]

I have remarked over the last few months that there are a number of us on this forum who are living through the death of our brothers and sisters. I would even go so far as to say I never even imagined there could be so many!

I have also noticed that the thread for bereaved mummies is the most amazing place of support, a great place to go and say how you feel without being judged, and knowing that others are going through something similar. And of course a place to go and get a good old MN hug.

So I wondered if those of you who have lost siblings would like to join me in making a place where we can say how we are feeling and to be here for each other, and even to gripe and moan! If you are interested, just let us know a bit about your sibling and a bit about your grief journey if you like. I'll start!

My youngest brother Jonny died a little over five months ago as a result of head injuries sustained during a hit and run accident. My family spent a week in intensive care with him in a coma before he died of heart failure on Fri 30th May 2008. Horrible, just horrible.

I feel down most of the time. But will admit to the strangest mood swings, from very depressed to almost hyper-excited. I still drink and smoke a lot, but less than right at the beginning. Suffice to say that things are not getting easier or better. Maybe even the opposite. I'm dreading Christmas, Jonny's birthday, and then the inquest and court case. I hate it all so much and wish often that it would just all go away. I still can't believe I'm writing this tuff about my own brother.

It's hard to quickly put into a short paragraph the pain and turmoil of the last five months. But I'm sure if this thread works out we'll have plenty of time to go into more detail.

Over to you...

Love Me xx

Hello phineas, and thanks for coming to join us. As cafffeine says, you are among understanding friends. If you can, read the thread from the beginning - Im' sure you will find a lot you can relate to, the pain and the questions and the dreadful dark places. I am so sorry to hear about your sister and that another person has to join us in this horrible place. But this is a place where you know someone can relate to what you're saying.

Nice to hear from a few of you and hope you're getting some rest EM. We're just back from a lovely weekend in London - how I miss living there! I love going, but I see my brother round every corner - the love of the city is tinged with sadness.

phineas welcome here, although of course I wish you didn't have to be. The feeling of your grief being overlooked or 'having' to be put aside is one I think most of us can relate to.

The loss of your sister sounds very traumatic. Are you accessing counselling or other help at all? I hope you are all supported somehow...

Hello everyone else, I lurk a lot but don't post much atm. DS has had chickenpox (nice and normal!) and I had a horrible sinus infection which was a bizarrely contemplative experience, in between the buckets of snot. Realised that finding out all that traumatic family shit back in Feb has affected me more than I thought.

I think of Simon every day, often happily. My darling DS is two tomorrow (!) and I know I will wonder again what their relationship would have held. I see so much of Si in him...both stubborn buggers

Today is my first day in the new job.

I just realised that I didn't explain the recent name change. (Oneofapair to binary). When I tried after a longish gap to access my account I could not get in. I never got any sense out of HQ so rather than wait for action or just vanish I opened a new account.

Cyteen: brother Simon, birthday 9th July, died April 26th 2007

Caffeineaddict: sister Jenny, birthday 15th Jan. Died 14th October 2007

Evansmummy: brother Jonny, birthday 6th March, died 30th May 2008

MissM: brother Jim, birthday March 9th, died October 17th 2008

Binary (was Oneofapair): twin sister Caroline, birthday September 29th, died August 27th 2009

Shelleylou: brother Matt, birthday 28th June, died October 19th 2009.

phineas, another welcome from me, and I am sorry you need to be here. As we all are. I think lots of us can relate to that feeling of being so lonely. Noone else can understand how you feel, but we can empathise having been through it ourselves. That's all we try to do here. I know I've been a bit absent over the lst few months. It's been hectic, plus, like cyteen, I lurk a lot without posting. But someone will always come along if you need an outlet. This thread has been a lifesaver for me, being able to say stuff that I could never say in RL, just because all these lovely MN people know what I'm going through, is a true godsend.

I've had a good summer I guess. Lovely to see family, including my other brother, but there is always a gap where Jonny should be. I sometimes, even now, still can't eblieve he's not around, and have even managed sometimes to convince myself that he's just away for a bit. How far from 'acceptance' am I?! I hate how this changes all the time - one minute I think I'm doing ok, the next I think I should be ok but am not, the next I am in pieces. I miss him so much and am constantly reminded of him. I think about him a lot, and always with sadness. I'm waiting for the time when I can think about him without feeling sad.

Cyteen I loved what you said about thinking of Simon almost always happily. That's such a lovely thing to hear. Does this mean the endless sadness does lift somewhat? I felt so happy for you reading that - EM does it answer your question?

We're holding a small festival in memory of Jim this weekend - we did it last year too. It's the same weekend he and his wife got married two years ago and six weeks before he died. It will be wonderful, as it was last year, with all his musician friends pulling out all the stops and performing for nothing. But I couldn't say I enjoyed it last year - I just wanted to cry all the time despite it being a beautiful weekend. I will see how I feel this year - I guess that will be a small measure of how much more 'accepting' I am (what does 'acceptance' feel like I wonder).

Happy birthday to Cyteen junior tomorrow. Two is a lovely and hellish age in turns (my little boy is 2.5)! My DD starts school next Tuesday so we're full of nervous tension here!

Much love to you all and welcome back to those who have been absent. x

MissM, I guess in a way it does. But when you're in that sadness you can never see it ending, can you? Like in the beginning when the despair encloses you and you feel like you'll never get out of that and then eventually you do.

Cyteen, I remember not that long ago (or maybe it was and I'm just in a time warp, completely possible given the last 8 months of my life!), you were considering counselling again. How did you get from that to the happiness? Do I need to do something? Atm I feel like I don't want to, but maybe I should?

No you can't EM, that's the problem. I re-read my diary from this time last year (I'm not religious about keeping it, but have written a lot about my feelings since Jim died) and the feelings I felt then are almost identical to those I feel now. Perhaps the only difference is the distance from the reality is further away. So when will my diary entry start reading that I feel hopeful and happy and fondness for him, instead of disbelief and overwhelming sadness.

The trouble is, I've been feeling down for so long, and I get down about other things too. I don't know whether that is because I'm grieving, or because those things are significant and there are aspects of my life which are making me unhappy apart from the grief. I don't know what to put down to the grief and what's just your average bog standard everyday misery!

"The trouble is, I've been feeling down for so long, and I get down about other things too. I don't know whether that is because I'm grieving, or because those things are significant and there are aspects of my life which are making me unhappy apart from the grief. I don't know what to put down to the grief and what's just your average bog standard everyday misery!"

MissM, I feel exactly the same way. Thank you for being lucid enough to put words to it. I feel sad about a lot of things but I always presume that it's because I'm grieving. It may not be! But I do feel that everything, however joyful that thing would normally be, has a sadness to it. Will that get better? I guess so. But not yet. The sensible people say it's still early days, then others act like 2 years should make everything ok again when it really doesn't. I'm living with those tensions - I'm not ok but feel I should be. I'm down, but is it grief or life...

EM, the only reason I haven't taken up counselling yet is because we've been so busy with wedding plans. I do plan to make an appt once the wedding is out of the way. As for how I got from the total despair of spring to feeling reasonably upright, well, I don't know. I have been grieving for so long that I guess I have a pattern established for just carrying on through the rawness to a more bearable place.

It's also worth considering that emotions don't run in a linear fashion, especially not with grief; they lie on top of and around each other like discarded clothes. Remembering someone with happiness, rather than purely in misery, doesn't necessarily negate feeling awful and low. And vice versa.

Forgot to mention something that occurred to me while reading MissM's post above: somewhere or other I have seen the process of dealing with traumatic events likened to a spiral. As you go through what seems like a linear process of experiencing the full panoply of emotions associated with the event, at various points you will come back to a familiar point in the spiral, somewhere you have already been and so to some extent are experienced in dealing with that particular emotional response. So while you might feel like you're getting 'better' and are shocked to find yourself suddenly back in the throes of grief, you are actually passing through a now familiar stage. The theory is that with each turn in the spiral, you process your responses to what has happened in more refined detail. They don't go away or get easier but your ability to understand and manage them increases.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks everyone...

Just typed a long post then lost it all!!!

Still trying to come to terms with everything. I get through most days by pretending its not real and burying my head in the sand.

cyteen no I haven't had counselling. I feel like talking to someone about it makes it all the more real and I'm worried that by letting it all out I'll never be able to pull myself back together.

I will try and have a read through the whole thread, although not now as I'm at work and not sure I'm strong enough yet.

Take care everyone

Do what you feel able to do, when you feel able to do it :) There's no schedule for this sort of thing, unfortunately.

My mum died twenty years ago and I recently had something happen that caused me to turn her picture to the wall because I couldn't stand looking at it

I don't ever want to accept it, it's so much easier to pretend it's not happening, if it wasn't for my DC's I would not have gotten out of bed

So sorry to hear about your mum too. It's so unfair that these awful things happen. I just want the pain to ease a little as sometimes I feel I can't breath it hurts that much :(

I know what you mean. I don't want to accept it either. I rage against it. Why should I!

cyteen, thanks for sharing that. I get it. I can see myself and my emotions on a spiral far more than a straight line. And it seems easier to get my head around going up the spiral rather than along a line. Sometimes a spiral's much steeper than at other times,and as you say, that doesn't work on a line. How are the wedding preps going? How long to go now?

phineasnigellus - exactly as cyteen says, you do whatever whenever. A friend told me not long after Jonny died, you do whatever feels right at any given moment, whatever that means, and it was the best advice I received. So some days I got out of bed to do breakfast for ds then went back to bed when he was at nursery. Some days I had a glass of wine at 11am, some days I went for a walk. If counselling feels like too much now, don't do it. I know people on here have had very different experiences of Cruse Bereavement counselling, which is a shame, but it, and MN, was my lifeline for a while. Whatever, keep posting, you're amongst people who know here.

The spiral makes complete sense - I suppose it's the equivalent to how children develop and learn, which is also on a spiral (famous theory of child development so nothing deep and meaningful on my part!) I like your discarded clothes analogy better tho Cyteen!

We had a small festival for my brother this weekend, on the other side of the woods where he's buried. We did the same last year but it was just for family and close friends - this year we opened it up a bit wider. I sang 'Other side of the world' by KT Tunstall - have been having singing lessons to give me the confidence (and ability!) to stand up there and do it. It was pretty much the most terrifying and emotional thing I've done in my life - everyone there was a singer and performer and the emotion also overwhelmed me. But I did it, and I don't think it sounded too much like bad karaoke. Lots of people came up to me afterwards and said it had made them cry so it couldn't have been too dreadful!

It was tough though - afterwards I went to Jim's grave and sat by it and cried and cried. My other brother had a wobbler later and we both sat together behind the stage in the dark crying. It's a beautiful and special place, but I wish we didn't know about it.

By the way EM, has that woman stopped hassling you now?

Cyteen - how was your DS's birthday?

MissM, well done for being brave. Maybe a new career on the books? I'm listening to the song now, it's beautiful and such special lyrics. I am proud of you! Did it feel 'good' (you know what I mean) to cry? And to have a cry with your brother too? I think that's a special thing to be able to do with him. Too much of the time I stop myself from crying. I feel like I need a good cry.

And as far as that woman is concerned, well since I changed my mobile number, I have no idea if she's been hassling me or not! She may well have been, but I don't know about it. And the ignorance has been bliss . I was a nervous wreck again on the first day of school, but when I saw her in the corridor I smiled at her, thinking I'd try and be dignified about it, and the fact that she kind of half-sneered at me just made me think 'whatever'. It's so childish, I couldn't care less. Not sure how NCT meetings are gonna work out, but we'll cross that bridge etc. Thank you for asking.

My brother may very well be coming home from Canada in less than two weeks. He's trying to get his visa extended but if that doesn't work out he'll be back home! I'm excited, but also very apprehensive. He and dh do not see eye to eye and last time we were all living together was a nightmare. It makes the whole thing bitter sweet. Story of my life.

I wish I was good enough to sing for a career EM! Sadly I don't sound much like KT Tunstall... It did feel 'good' to cry, especially as it was very private. My brother's best and oldest friend is a performer and was due to go on when I sang. He said afterwards that it was the best thing I could have done - he was feeling very emotional and anxious about performing and my song gave him the space and courage he needed. He gave me a huge hug and said I did it for him, which touched me more than I have words for.

It sounds like you've handled bitch woman very well. And family relationships.... Sigh. Never easy is it.

Here's the link to the song.

MissM, it is a beautiful song, I really like the lyrics. I'm sure you sounded beautiful. And how special for your brother's friend to say that to you. Hold onto those things.

I can't stop crying today. No idea why, except I have it all churning around in my head a lot atm, and can't seem to deal with it very well.

I know. It's about a long distance relationship, but I didn't really ever hear to it like that. I always loved the song, then after my brother died the lyrics seemed to mean a huge amount - I felt like I could really relate to them.

Really sad you're crying. I'm going through one of my stoical weeks - completely dry-eyed and as if nothing has ever happened. I tend to get like that after an emotional few days. My daughter has started school as well so I'm concentrating on the logistics of getting here there and getting some work done so intently that there's not much room in my head for other things (except that they're always there aren't they). Big hug.

I've just finished watching The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. A truly harrowing film, but very beautiful, in a sad way. It made me ask myself some stuff about Jonny, which in turn has made me need to ask some questions about his death that only my parents or brother would know the answers to. Thing is I don't want to upset them by asking these questions, and now I don't know what to do.

Dejavuaswell: sister Jane, birthday 26th October, dies 24th October 1992

Cyteen: brother Simon, birthday 9th July, died April 26th 2007

Caffeineaddict: sister Jenny, birthday 15th Jan. Died 14th October 2007

Evansmummy: brother Jonny, birthday 6th March, died 30th May 2008

MissM: brother Jim, birthday March 9th, died October 17th 2008

Binary (was Oneofapair): twin sister Caroline, birthday September 29th, died August 27th 2009

Shelleylou: brother Matt, birthday 28th June, died October 19th 2009.

Thanks for that update Dejavu. If anyone else wants to add to it please do.

EM it is a beautiful and unbearably moving film isn't it. I cried buckets and buckets at the end. Can you talk about what kind of questions you'd like to ask your brother or parents (do you mean your brother in Canada of Jonny?)