For Jonny, and all our darling departed sisters and brothers..."their diminished size is in us, not in them".

[evansmummy]

I have remarked over the last few months that there are a number of us on this forum who are living through the death of our brothers and sisters. I would even go so far as to say I never even imagined there could be so many!

I have also noticed that the thread for bereaved mummies is the most amazing place of support, a great place to go and say how you feel without being judged, and knowing that others are going through something similar. And of course a place to go and get a good old MN hug.

So I wondered if those of you who have lost siblings would like to join me in making a place where we can say how we are feeling and to be here for each other, and even to gripe and moan! If you are interested, just let us know a bit about your sibling and a bit about your grief journey if you like. I'll start!

My youngest brother Jonny died a little over five months ago as a result of head injuries sustained during a hit and run accident. My family spent a week in intensive care with him in a coma before he died of heart failure on Fri 30th May 2008. Horrible, just horrible.

I feel down most of the time. But will admit to the strangest mood swings, from very depressed to almost hyper-excited. I still drink and smoke a lot, but less than right at the beginning. Suffice to say that things are not getting easier or better. Maybe even the opposite. I'm dreading Christmas, Jonny's birthday, and then the inquest and court case. I hate it all so much and wish often that it would just all go away. I still can't believe I'm writing this tuff about my own brother.

It's hard to quickly put into a short paragraph the pain and turmoil of the last five months. But I'm sure if this thread works out we'll have plenty of time to go into more detail.

Over to you...

Love Me xx

sounds like the OU thing will be great - as you say a bit of a change, do something for yourself I think is really important. Don't envy you the decision of when to go - bloomin credit crunch not the best time is it? but if you can stretch it and have a few weeks off before Feb - go for it if that's what you really feel like doing.

I've just found this thread and would like to say thank you, Evansmummy, for starting it.

There have been many times since my dear sister died that I have so nearly turned to mumsnet for support, but have never quite been able to or known how to start. So, if I may, I'd like to join your thread.

I don't have time to really go into details now - I've already spent over and hour reading through this thread and do not want to risk crying with in front of my dds - but in brief...

My younger sister died 3 1/2 years ago, suddendly and unexpectedly, while we were on holiday together with our families, in France. The complications of being abroad and the death being unexplained meant that it was sometime before we could bring her home, longer still before we knew why she had died and even longer before we could give her a funeral.

She left behind a dh and 3 dcs, the youngest only 11 months old .

She was so very dear to me and I still miss her so much that it really does hurt .

My heart felt sympathy goes to all of you who have lost a brother or sister or in-law.

Nemna - welcome and sympathies to you for the loss of your sister xxx

Have come back to you guys. Nemna - I feel so sad for you and your sister's family. Evansmummy am also feeling guilty cos I've not cried for two days now. I went to see a play which was brilliant and all I could think was how much my brother would have loved it, and how I couldn't wait to phone him and tell him he MUST see it. We used to recommend stuff to one another all the time, or go and see things together. But I couldn't cry. Why not? Today I've just got on with stuff and seem to have hardly thought of him (but of course I never stop thinking about him).

I'm going back to work after my maternity leave ends on Monday. I'm really anxious, really not sure how it'll be. My manager rang today for the first time after I told him three weeks ago and didn't mention it at all. It's like it never happened. Do people think it will go away if they don't talk about it? Just a 'how are you, I'm so sorry to hear what happened' would do.

Welcome Nemna, I am so sorry to hear that you've lost your sister It sounds like a terrible situation. Do you feel in any way that you've attained some grasp on it all now? By which I mean, it must have been very hard to make sense of it all due to the circumstances you describe (not that there's ever much sense to be made, but ykwim). I can only imagine that confusion over what happened would make the whole process of trying to grieve more difficult

Sorry to hear that people are struggling with work too. My work were very supportive after Simon died, but I still struggled. If I'm honest, I never settled in that job as I started it one week after learning that his cancer was terminal; I could never give my all to the job as I had other things on my mind. After he died I had 5 weeks off, then ended up crashing a few months after returning and having to take another month off.

Funny you should mention returning to study, EM, as that's what I ended up doing. The second time I was signed off I had a good long think about my life and why I was so unhappy (apart from the obvious!) and decided that life is too short to keep putting off the things you want to do. I also felt very strongly that I could not and would not just step back into my old life as if nothing had happened - you know, back to work, back to routine, blah blah blah - it felt profoundly disrespectful and I suspect contributed to my poor mental state.

Luckily for me DP was (as always) fantastically supportive and said he was happy for me to go part time so that I could start my MA...it was an adjustment, but a good one. Then I got pregnant anyway and am now on maternity leave from work and study

MissM, wishing you lots of strength for your first day back. People are probably just really confused and unsure of how to handle it. They will take their cues from you - if they see you are happy to talk about it and want it 'out in the open', as it were, they will hopefully start to relax a bit.

Nemna, you're very welcome to join us, though, again, I wish you didn't have to . I'm very sorry for your loss. Are you close, physically and emotionally, to her dh and your nieces/nephews?

I thought people would be good at work, but even though I think I made it obvious that I wanted to talk about it, a meeting with my boss a couple of weeks after I went back revealed that she was uncomfortable with the deep emotions I had to express in talking about it. Since which, I've kept it under wraps. I can't even talk to her now, she hurt my feelings so much that day. Most other people haven't mentioned it at all. Of a team of 25 people, who are all aware, four have mentioned it once, three allow me to speak about it more often, and the rest haven't said anything at all. It does feel like they're pretending it isn't there, though really I know it's just that they don't know what to say. Doesn't help though.

MissM, I hope it goes ok for you. And if it doesn't, please don't be afraid to ask for more time. You need to do this right.

cyteen, I def feel like that re work and routine. I am not the same person and I feel like a square peg in a round hole going back to the same job. I'm looking forward to being able to leave and start something afresh. And I know Jonny would be proud.

Thank you all for your welcome and your sympathy.

cyteen - the whole muddle of the situation certainly delayed the start of proper grieving, not just for me but for all those very close to her - particularly her dh, myself and my elder sister. The path of grief has not been smooth, (although I doubt it is for many), but yes, I have moved along and have a better grasp on things.

EM - Sorry to hear that you're having a difficult time at work. You should not put up with being miserable at work, especially with your grief being so new and raw. IME losing my sister really put a different light on things such as work and you should go with your instinct (if practicalities allow).

I used to live quite close to my dbil, but unfortunately my dh's work has meant we had to move further away at the beginning of last year - more than 100 miles now. We stay as close as we can, but both my elder sister and I feel sure that we remind dbil so much of his dw that he finds it quite difficult. My sister was always very keen that all our dcs - 'the cousins' - should be as close as possible (probably because we did not have any cousins, both my parents being only children) so we do our best, despite the physical distance between us (my elder sister lives even further away) and the age range (7 dcs, aged 15 down to 2).

I feel for my dbil more than anyone. I fear that he really has not had the time to grieve properly.

I think it's so hard for anyone who has children, to grieve properly. Some people find it a blessing to have children in these times, but, if I'm honest, I've found it hard. I even resent sometimes, ahving a ds and dh, because it means that I can't be by myself. I often have to think of someone else first. How selfish is that?!

I'm glad you try to keep in touch with your bil, though that can't be easy for any of you. He would probably feel worse though if there wasn't any contact! I'm in contact quite a bit with my brother's closest friends, which is the farthest he got in terms of relationships, unfortunately. I find it comforting. They have a 'piece' of my brother that I don't, a part of his life that I don't know much about. They fill in the gaps, and it's like having a part of him around still.

How is everyone else today?

thinking today of R - 3 September 1961 - 15 Novembr 1971
never,ever forgotten xxxxx

Thinking of you and your brother today Mary Ann xx

thank you evansmummy,that means a lot xxx

Really sad for you for Saturday MAS. We had DS's first birthday party, just family, plus DB's wife. It was a very lovely day but the sadness has really hit me now. Me and my other brother went for a walk this morning, talked a lot and cried. Words don't do justice to how I feel, how much I want him to be here. I can't make any sense of it. Me and my brother, SIL, husband lit a candle and all cried last night and I felt like if we allowed ourselves to we might never stop

oh MissM - your last line was so poignant huge hugs to you

Why does this have to happen? why is it so bloody awful? I don't even know who will come out of the other side of this. How do people carry on living?

you will survive this though it is very hard - I feel for all of you who have lost their brother or sister more recently than me - you knew them for longer and shared so much that to have them snatched away is very cruel and very painful - time and distance has healed my loss,of course I miss him and wish that we we still a complete family. That is certainly not to underestimate or belittle the grief and pain of someone who lost their sibling or child many years ago - it's just that in my experience it is muffled and not so raw.

MissM, i had those exact same thoughts in the immediate aftermath of my brother's death. unfortunately i don't have much of a positive answer, as i seem to have just gone numb where my feelings about that are concerned.

In fact I have been working up the courage to ring Cruse and ask for some bereavement counselling, something I've never been able to do in all the years since I lost my mum. The impact that had on me is so profound that it's only now I'm starting to realise how much I do need help to unravel it all and how many things in my life need resolving.

I will try and ring them today.

cyteen, definitely go for it. It has been so helpful for me. I started very shortly after Jonny died, and I'm still going. Does help to put some order to the chaos that reigns in my head at the moment.

MissM, I feel for you. I remember, like cyteen, thinking the same thing - that the tears would never stop. I remember such desperation. What can I do but say I'm here for you, and thinking very much of you. How do you feel about getting some counselling?

MAS, you are hope that living with a bereavement is possible. And that proof that living with it doesn't mean forgetting and I think we all need to have both the proof and the hope. Stick around, please.

Coming up in a few weeks is our 6 month mark. Jonny isn't even buried yet

Cyteen I think you're very brave. I was thinking about counselling last night (also had my first proper dream about my brother - can't understand why it's taken this long). Not sure I'm ready for it yet, although I haven't ruled it out at some point. Sometimes I see no future whatsoever and can only hold on to my children at those moments.

Evansmummy I can't believe you haven't been able to have a funeral yet. It helped, although perhaps more in retrospect than at the time - at the time it just felt unreal, like we were at someone else's funeral. I really feel for you.

Oh MissM, we had a funeral. But we've decided to wait for some organs to come back from the inquest before burying him. So we, as yet, don't have a 'place' to go. Also means there'll be an interment (he was cremated, and the rest will be when we get it) at some point, so another hard thing on the horizon. That, along with an inquest and a court case. Seems to be dragging along...

Also, I haven't dreamed at all of my brother. I wish I would

Hi to all of you who have also lost siblings particularly those whose losses are recent.

When my sister died nearly 10 years ago, it was like an insurmountable mountain that stopped me in my tracks. I moved back home with my parents, gave up my (very stressful) job, started rereading books that comforted me in childhood.

Now it is like that mountain of grief has been smoothed by time. It is still there - and sometimes it can still cause me much pain particularly at certain times of the year but the pain is not so raw, not so immediate.

I believe we never get over the loss of a loved one, just get through it to a place where the pain is less and the ache fades a bit.

Remember, this too will pass

'Remember, this too will pass ' kdk - that is a saying that I really like and tell myself a lot, it's immensly comforting on all sorts of of occassions. Am very sorry for the loss of your sister too.

My eldest son (now 26) has just become a first time daddy. His partner has had severe PND which has been a massive worry for all of us, and has really affected my son. Now he has made an appointment with his counsellor to go back to see him again. He was 7 months old when his twin brother died and 10 when his 7yr old brother was killed. His little boy is reminding him so much of his brothers that it is un-nerving him.

Time does heal, but sometimes older grief can bite you right on the bum. I hope you all find some peace with your awful losses.

Well, we are a slow lot, aren't we?! Or is it just that busyness takes over...

Haven't had much of a chance to reflect over the last week. My folks are back on Weds (they moved to france about 3 months ago), and I've been very occupied trying to get the house sorted for their return. As a consequence, I've been unable really to think about Jonny. I feel guilty.

Went to see Sigur Ros on Friday, and even though it isn't a band he particularly liked, I thought a lot about him when I was there. Jonny was a big gig-goer, and I used to be, so it was inevitable that I think of him. It felt sad to know that he won't be doing that again. I feel that I want to make up for that, esp as he and my other brother went to a lot of gigs together. So me and my other brother are going to a gig on Thurs. I just hope I don't get drunk and cry!

Also breaking the news to my work on Weds about resigning. Feeling very nervous, and hoping they'll be understanding.

How is everyone?

evansmummy - yep we certainly are slooooowwww! I haven't been able to revisit this thread for a while and of course I am doing it quickly now when I really need to be getting to bed - early start tomorrow....so just a quickie to wish you well at work tomorrow with telling them.

Hopefully they will be understanding - but at the end of the day if it is what you want to do then don't feel any guilt about it whatever the reaction. I think I mentioned before that when I decided to reduce my hours a few months after my brother died - it felt such the right thing to do and I was lucky that work were really supportive and continue to be. I hope you feel that sense of it being the right thing and some relief after tomorrow - good luck.

Hope all goes well with your folks back - you will probably feel washed out this week with everything going on - enjoy the gig on Thurs - if you get drunk and cry all the better . I think its great you are trying to enjoy going to gigs like Jonny did - he would approve I'm sure. It's like trying to connect with him in some way - and although it will hurt and the loss feels probably more acute when you are there - it's also a way to be thinking about him. My brother was a massive mountain biker and I get out on my bike when I can and it always makes me feel close to him in some way - although 5 years on I still usually end up crying at some point as I am cycling - not always the best look under a cycling helmet.

Big hug to you and to all on here - whilst I do not get on here that often I will always visit this thread and I hope to share a bit more of my brother's story at some point......

hi all

evansmummy, am glad you're making a move with regard to your work situation. it sounds like you're doing the right thing for you; i'm sure they will understand, but even if they don't it shouldn't matter as you must tread the path that is best for you.

very jealous of your gig-going, that's probably the thing i've missed most since having a baby. crying is good, i find a gig crowd quite a safe place to let it all out tbh - last year i went to a great festival in barcelona with some friends, only a month after Si died, and had a sentimental blub whilst watching Smashing Pumpkins (had consumed rather a lot of vodka as well though ).

i had a dream about Si last night, only the second one i can ever remember having. he was terminally ill, as he was in the first dream, painfully thin and rattly but still so much himself. i was expressing milk to give him, to keep him alive and try and sustain his health a bit longer (the wonders of breastmilk eh!) but everyone around us was really callous and kept doing things like knocking the milk over or defrosting the freezer, thus meaning i had to throw all my stocks away, despite me telling them how important it was.

that probably makes me sound like a right weirdo i can totally see where it came from - DS refused a bottle of ebm last night, meaning i had to throw it away (always gutting), and he was a bit under the weather meaning i had been worrying about him, and he looks just like Si when he falls asleep on my shoulder...i have been thinking about Si a lot this week, missing him a lot.