DH committed suicide on Saturday, rang Samaritans, not helped.

[RubbishMantra]

Anyone there? I 'm a bit done in. We'd been married less than 2 years. I got him a dollar bill folded into an origami carp for our 1st anniversary. He hanged himself. We didn't have DCs, but we have 2 beautiful cats. Sister flying in tomorrow. I don't know how he could leave me and our 2 little lads (cats)

Is there any resistance on your part to going, Mantra?

It was just the being sick in my dinner, it's times like that you just want someone to look after you isn't it? I suppose it was the old self pity welling up.

Not resistance to counselling. just that particular counsellor. I reasoned that if he can't be arsed to check his notes before replying, then I don't want to trust that counsellor with my shit. I certainly wouldn't have worded a text in such a way to a client, that's for sure.

When I replied that I had brought up the subject of fees and that we had discussed it the previous week I didn't even receive a reply. I wasn't arsey or anything. But he'd pissed me off, and that's not a great basis to build a trusting therapeutic relationship on. (In my view.)

You're right there.

Being sick in your dinner is a PITA but given what your body has been through recently, I'm not in the least surprised that you should have such a visceral reaction to something.

You're completely free to pity yourself if you want - except it's not really self-pity at all, is it? It's grief.

Agree entirely that it's a bad way to conduct a professional relationship, so best off out of that one, Mantra. Was that a CRUSE one or someone else?

Shame about your dinner, but I remember the throat constriction well - hence staying on semi-liquid for such a long time.

As for TSM - it's probably better to think of her as dead, as, in terms of her emotional availability and support to you, she might as well be. Hope your sister is still being supportive though - at least you have her. x

I am at this counsellor. I think you've done absolutely the right thing to find someone else, Mantra. Though it's yet another bloody thing to have to sort out at a time when I really, really wish things could go smoothly for you. There will be someone out there who is a good match for you, and I really hope you find them very soon.

Thinking of you this afternoon.

You should be feeling deeply, deeply sorry for yourself. I don't think you are feeling sorry enough for yourself.

Your mother is not going to give you what you need - what anyone would need. There aren't any answers to that either. Except stop going back (I know, it's like an addiction - needs to be treated that way too) and get what you need from others around you now. Failure parents are terribly sad for the children - but we all survive, you know.

I know what I am saying re TSPs sounds like asking you to do a huge thing when you are already dealing with the hugest thing. And that as advice goes that's infuriating and exhausting. And you are probably doubting what I'm saying - there's a bit of you thinking right now Oh they might be all right next time, who is this interweb random anyway.

But I am trying to look out for you, see, and trying to minimise your pain. Just avoid TSPs for small things, cut out the little darts for now.

As for the puking, try veg curry dishes - daal, mata paneer, etc. Is real food & goes down well. Avoid things like chops and chicken, all that chewing is no good. Give any meat you encounter to cats.

Oh, and wishing DM had died instead of DP is completely normal. One of my oldest friends burst into tears when we came back from visiting her one remaining tribal elder after her dad had snuffed it, because she was so upset the old lady was still alive.

So was everyone else, to be frank, for a variety of reasons. But funnily enough, the one who actually loved the old girl was my mate. Contradiction is fine in human feelings, only to be expected.

Ah, it's the anger you see. I just want to be able to grieve for DLH without tsm over-shadowing even that. I want to be able to process my grief and pain, but she keeps butting in with her demands. I got a letter in the post today, telling me I shouldn't be frittering money away on "earns" (urn) and getting our wedding bands melted together. WTAF??!

I'm just so fucked off that she manages to encroach on my grief. Fair enough, she hasn't mentioned DLH in any of her correspondence for the last few weeks, or even asked, "How you doing Mantra?" Just nothing. NOTHING. OK, but HOW DARE sHE start telling me I shouldn't buy him an urn, with MY OWN MONEY?

I hadn't realised quite what an exceptionally vicious piece of work she really was before this happened. The most twisted individual I've ever experienced.

And Cory, I do this weird thing, like playing games with myself where tsm's concerned. I know she won't give me what I need, but I give her opportunities just to see what depths she'll sink to, in the pursuit of making others miserable, how much will she twist the knife, you know? And I'm letting her shitty behaviour overshadow a time when I should be able to grieve, I've entered into this sick, sick game with her, and I don't know how to stop.

Mantra - I honestly, honestly think you have all the evidence you need about the depths she will sink to. I really don't think she could have been much more unsympathetic, selfish, or self-absorbed. Telling you off for grieving in your own way is really the last straw.

I think you need to give yourself permission to cut contact with them. Screw the property deal, screw all the other phoney "claims" - they can pay a damn solicitor to sort that out, the same as everyone else has to - and look after yourself. No claim that they have on you can possibly in any way outweigh the claim that you have on them - and that they have neglected.

The very last thing you need in your life right now, when you're at your most vulnerable ever, is someone questioning, picking holes, criticising and generally moaning. I think you have an brutal but simple choice: either you keep on with them and they continue to rile and corrode your grieving eating away at you from the inside, or you accept the additional loss that is emotional acceptance of their awfulness and move through it to some kind of deferred peace.

What does your sister think of their attitude to you? I remember you saying she hated them - can you make her your 'family' instead?

Hmm. You don't know how to stop because you're in the craving phase.

Let me think about that. (pause just then for a bit). Well, if I was a famous well-known shrink you know what I'd say? Just stop.

And you'd say Um, I can't.

And I'd say Yes you can, but you need to start by stopping a bit. Cutting down.

If you're like most people, you don't like anger because you don't like yourself when you're angry. Balls to that - even Jesus used to hit the roof (see the Temple/moneylenders). Righteous anger is not a problem. Let rip.

...but I give her opportunities just to see what depths she'll sink to, in the pursuit of making others miserable, how much will she twist the knife, you know? ...

I just don't think that's true, I'm afraid. It sounds to me as if you actually keep going back to give her another chance to care - and every single time, she kicks you in the guts. And she'll keep on doing that. (In fact it sounds as if she's ramping up the treatment - after all, you're more vulnerable at the moment than you've been for some time.)

I'm heartsore that you should have to deal with her shenanigans at the same time as your grief for DLH. You know my views on the sale so I'll only say, briefly, that I think you should drop all action on your part and block all contact with her. Right now.

I agree with Cozie - you're intellectualising the problem as a defensive reflex (good) and thus pretending to be in control of it. You aren't (bad). There's no reason why you should be.

Ask yourself: who's enjoying this game? Anyone winning this game?
Quite.

I think it might be time for rain to stop play. The only thing you can do is stop playing. Ease off the masochist stuff.

You don't need it right now. I appreciate you desperately need emotional connections, something grounding, family. You keep going back because of that legitimate, urgent need, of course you do. But even though you have that need, and even though TSP are supposed to be one of the parties who might meet it, they are never bloody going to. However you think about it, however you talk about it, it's not going to get better.

That is fucking sad & the last thing you need under the circs. But it's happening. Stop hanging on. I promise you that you will feel miles better when you let go, even a little bit. The point-scoring game is a glimmer of hope in this direction, I admit, BUT ONLY IF YOU THEN CUT CONTACT. EVEN END ONE PHONE CALL. JUST ONE.

Final qu: what would you say to a woman whose husband beat her up?

Don't let her own your grief. You know him, she doesn't and didn't, and is all about her. I guess you have to stop looking for support from her because she's just one of those people who can't give it, because it all has to be about them, and their tangental relationship to the situation.

You are so strong, and your love is so strong, you will be fine in your own time. And if you're not now, that is ok too. thinking of you.

The perfect Orange Prince (Lionel on sundays) and tiny Percy (Persephone is she ever grows a brain and into the name) are asleep on the sofa next to me, take comfort in the cats.

Mantra - I have to agree that, whatever your intellectual expectations are from the TSM, you're probably deep-down hoping against hope that the ol' witch will actually prove you wrong for once and be nice. She isn't going to. She already had the perfect opportunity - the death of your DLH - to show her humane, human, kind side; and failed horribly. HORRIBLY. This says that she doesn't have such a side, at least not one she's prepared to show to you.

So you could, with clear conscience, mentally tell 'em to fuck the fuck off and have no truck with them again. Letters can be burnt unopened (there will never be kindness in them), phonecalls can be hung up immediately (or get caller-ID and never answer them), emails can be forwarded to a lovely person like your sister who can then précis down anything useful and return it to you. No direct contact. Get this place abroad sold for them and then kiss your teeth in their general direction - it's no more than they deserve.

((((hugs)))) for you my lovely.

I'd actually go even further and tell them - in my final letter - that I was withdrawing from any involvement in the sale. I find it 'intriguing' that they involved you and DLH in it earlier on and are continuing to keep you doing things for them through that mechanism. They have a solicitor after all to handle things for them.

(In fact, you could tell them in that final letter - copied to said solicitor - that all future sale-related matters should be handled by the solicitor and not by you. You know my views though.)

Seconded.

Going to bed with fat tabby now - always recommended.

What they said. give monsieur a cuddle.

Oh, thankyou. I wish I could properly put into words how much strength and comfort you all give me.

I have MCat curled onto my lap, in the shape of a comma. Purring his head off. Radiating cat-angel love. In spite of that I just feel like pacing and fucking screaming, I mean REALLY FUCKING SCREAMING.

No-one is giving you room to breathe at the moment, I think?

just feeling a tad peculiar. MCat's shared a flee onto me. Luckily I felt its' tickliness, and managed to catch it. So probably in the death throes from the Advocate from a couple of weeks ago. Still feel paranoidly itchy though. (sad)

MCat was nursing on the end of my plait. No wonder I have split ends. (I don't mind) Silly goose that he is. Tries to make out he's well hard.