Christmas hope - our safe haven thread for bereaved parents.

[shabbapinkfrog]

Hope....for the bereaved parent; even at Christmas, one of the most painful times of the year, there is an essence of hope. Hope....it is hope that sustains us through the days of grief and anger and frustration and loneliness.

The hope that someday the pain of the deaths of our children will be eased. The hope that someday our smiles will be real.

So, it is that for each of you I would hope....peace, compassion, love, sympathy, understanding, sharing and listening. In the sharing of our grief with one another, and in the emotional support we give to one another, we receive and understand all of these gifts.

Remembering my precious sons....and all of your precious children at this difficult time of year.

your welcome. Its what we are here for.

i want to thank you girls as well.

I pass the scarf to AMAW and anyone else who needs it.

chip I know what you mean re: the cursing effect :(

I mentioned on another site (Judas eh?) about baby's movements, and I commented. It did occur to me that I could be accused of scaremongering (which is not my intention, but some of the silly comments made me .

Another mum took my "story" to say that people like me, are the reason that she was always at the hospital, as every baby in disress could be saved if the mother was viligent! Aaargh! That stung, I was well aware of stillbirths, I mentioned in the OP of my thread that I had a friend who had the same, and she'd drummed it into me. Still when it happens it's not easy to notice. It's quite often for babies in utero to die overnight, when the mum's blood pressure is naturally lower when she's sleeping, in this case the lack of force causes it, and unless you stay awake & stuck on a CTG monitor 24/7 then it's not always preventable. I'm sure Tamsin passed away overnight, and I still felt some movement the next day, but I was told that the baby does move around in the waters, and this is often misinterpreted as fetal movements - still the woman's comments have added to my guilt

hello all, and a sad welcome to AMAW and Rufus, your lion-hearted little boy.

whatever a bean, a bean!! Hurrah! So happy for you. BTW, I think that no matter what, you would worry, which is natural. Would you like to give your worry to us all, and then concentrate on the nice stuff. (a technique I used with my mother with exam stress when I was at school - worked brilliantly)

Lots of sad stories here tonight. I have mixed feelings about hospitals. I had to have a EMCS with Mia, as when I was being induced when it was discovered I had the very rare condition of vasa previa (veins outside the placenta to her) and while she was born safely, we found out later she was extremely lucky - all medical references basically talk about foetal mortality at 90%, and only one of the consultants had ever seen the condition before. Yet when we took her in for her funny breathing, it felt like there was no real concern... and she died.

Now can someone please hit me on the head? Why on earth do I feel compelled to look inside at every stroller I pass to see the child inside? I don't expect to see Mia. I certainly don't expect them to be as lovely as her either. (sorry, totally biased mother alert!) I guess I compare their ages to her, which doesn't even make sense - and it just plain hurts. But I find it almost impossible to stop...

miasmummy Wow, Mia really was a little fighter eh? The irony about the severity of the vasa previa, compared to the lack of concern when the situation was dire must be unbearably bittersweet. But she was a fighter, she did give it her best shot, and made sure her presence was felt in the world, and it has changed the world, in some, myabe imperceptible way (right now), but the world is different due to her presence.

Looking into strollers is natural, I try to avoid little babies, but at the same time do peek at them. In wonderment at how many of them survive (which makes no sense). Of course doing something that is hurting you is not good, but on the same hand if it's compelling, maybe just ride the curiousity out, of course they won't be as lovely as her, she was just so special xx

AMAW of course she was a grandmother, honestly people just say the wrong things! xx

AMAW IS a grandmother

whatever congratualtions! worry is normal I'm afraid, and this pregnancy will almost undoubtedly be unbearably stressful, but you will get through it, we're all here holding your hand, and squeezing it when you need it xx

Whatever, congratulations! You've got a lot of stress ahead of you no doubt, but how amazing that you're growing a new life. I saw your sad thread a couple of days ago. I'm so sorry.

Miasmummy, I look into prams too. I don't know why. I am sort of overwhelmed with tenderness for the mums and babies. It's just an incredible thing and I think lots of women don't realise at all how it could change in a heartbeat. Lucky them.

Everlong - I still have to look at every set of twins I see - I always say how beautiful they are and the mum nearly always says 'They are very hard work!' and..........I smile and say 'but they are beautiful' and normally walk away.

Every little 7/8 year old boy I see I have to have a good look to make sure its not my Matty.

We are a bit weird - us human beings - aren't we?

I still think he will ring me and say 'alright?' xx

He would if he could Lavandes.....Im totally sure of that xxxxx

Good night ladies - see you all tomorrow xxx

Whatever I think when I was pg with Sylvie-Rose a few of us on the thread had had bleeds but heartbeats were found. I think the research we did at the time found that once there was a hearbeat there was maybe a 90% chance the baby would be fine. And you could have ovulated late which would mean a baby showing up small for dates. Also if you think how small they are, how on earth they get any measurement at all is beyond me.

I bought a fake rose a week ago and put it on my hall table. I always put fresh flowers on her grave, I make up a bouquet, arrange it in Oasis and they tend to last very well. But I was thinking that there will be times when we are away and that I might leave fake flowers at those times so that we don't arrive back to a withered bouquet. I am fussy about fake flowers though, they must look real. So I bought this one rose in a gardening shop, none of the others were up to standard. It's a start, I will collect others!

The fake flower is a rose just budded and it struck me today as I was passing it that even though it's fake, I sort of expect it to blossom out like a real rose would. But it never will and I thought, that's how Sylvie-Rose is, a rosebud that never came to full bloom.

Morning girls xx

Morning ladies xx

Amaw- I'm sorry you have found yourself on here. The ladies here are such a fantastic bunch. We try our best to help each other through our bad days. My daughter Zoe was born asleep last feb at 41 weeks.

wtw- I'm glad you seen your little bean heart beating! Hope you are ok.

Miasmum - I do the looking in pram thing too. I also sometimes have quick look at baby clothes when I'm shopping, why info t know as it just makes me cry!

Hope you are all well. X

Morning all. Baby still inside for now, 32+5 today so we're getting there. Seeing consultants again tomorrow morning so hopefully we'll have some sort of plan formulated then.

Trying to keep myself from going mad in the meantime, really struggling lately, just want her out with us so I can stop worrying and stressing about everything. I feel like it's all me having to be responsible for her and it's getting to me. Every time she goes longer than 10 mins without moving I panic and think that something has happened again. Luckily she's very active but I really don't think I can do this for much longer.

cheese hang in there, you sound exactly like I felt by 32 weeks (32+4 being when Belle died). My consultant agreed to a 36 week induction because I just wasn't coping at all and needed X born asap. Those last few weeks felt like a lifetime but you will get there xxx

We've had the 'anymore' discussion and decided with much fear we're going to brave one more pregnancy in a few years time because we want the hope of X having a live sibling as well as Belle. I dunno some sort of 'normal' sibling experiences as well as growing up with grave visits and his sisters invisible presence in our family. Even though we feel this is important I'm already scared shitless at the prospect of doing it again and losing another baby but hope to god my consultant will just agree to a 36w ECS next time.

Isn't it awful what a state you can get yourself into over something that won't be happening for 2 years...

Feeling a bit calmer again today, thanks for all the reassuring words yesterday.

Thanks Caz. With my sugar levels and insulin dropping/dropped they've been concerned about my placenta failing so when she's delivered depends on how they look and how happy she is too, it could be tomorrow or it could be 2 weeks. The not knowing really gets to me though, I do worry now that something could just happen to my placenta and we wouldn't know. I'm thinking that there must be a tipping point where she's better out than in so hopefully the consultant will help with that tomorrow.

We lost Scarlett at 37 weeks and it says in my notes that induction was due for 36 weeks but that they've told me it will now be earlier. I don't even know if she's breech or not at the moment. Scarlett was breech and I delivered her as a footling but I was seconds away from a section, thankfully I didn't realise at the time though. I wouldn't want to attempt a breech birth with a live baby though.

It's a big decision to make, to try for another baby, hopefully the time passing will help you settle with the idea a bit more but I'm sure you'll still be just as anxious and worried the next time.

Caz you made me smile when you said you were going to try, in a couple of years, for another baby. I know how scary it is but Im glad you feel that way. xxxx

Cheese - my Gareth was a footling....Danny came first, head first with the aid of forceps and then Gareth was delivered feet first....it was 'quite interesting'

I can totally appreciate both of your fears - Cheese looking forward to your birth announcement and thinking about you and your family xx

...meant to say that I had, against my wishes, an epidural for the twins delivery!

Hey Cheese! Lovely to hear from you again! Hoping baby keeps doing the macarena inside you to make her presence felt!

i do the looking in the pram! its instinct ( david wasn`t in a pram when he died)
Its though you think they will be there.