For not wanting a sliver of pain during childbirth (support for stillbirth)

[karmathreefold]

and then wanting extreme agony as punishment?

It's my fault... I knew the baby wasn't as active as usual, yet I thought it was OK.

I had a friend who had a stillbirth & she told me to check out any reduced movements - which I did, for my son, DD & in this pregnancy.

But I fucking didn't on tuesday, and I waited till the evening, when I knew it should be more active till I went to hospital.

So now I have to give birth to it. It's fully formed at 37 weeks gestation. If I'd got to hospital on time it could have maybe been saved.

I don't want to feel pain giving birth; yet I feel I deserve it, why not after it's all my fault.

I've never felt such pain as I do no, so maybe even a drugs-free labour would be less painful.

Oh god, I don't want this pain, I can't stand it

Well if he is blaming you it's quite probably to deflect the blame he does/should feel for not helping and pulling his weight when you were supposed to have complete rest and he still went off out and put his ds first before you, dd1 and Tamsin.

Your feelings of wanting to be hugged and be intimate and have sex are entirely normal, his rejection of you really isn't!!!!! I know of more couples who conceived in the very early stages of grief of their child dying than those who conceived much later on - of those most of them I know were due to conception difficulties not lack of sex! I also know that for some (I have never asked so it could be all) it was about being intimate with each other rather than being just desperate to conceive again as quickly as they could.

Often the only comfort is your arms around one another at times like this, as you say to share the intense grief that no-one else around you is experiencing at the same level.

Please do not blame yourself or your body, it is a miracle against the odds that we ever conceive and produce living healthy babies, they were lots of factors going against you. Life stinks at times - huge huge hugs x

Oh, karma! I was actually annoyed with myself last night after having asked you what you were getting out of the relationship. I had actually dithered about posting it, tbh but I have been upset at things he had said to you. But I was in bed last night and thinking "Why did I post that, that's all she needs to hear right now!" But I hate to see your feelings being dismissed at such a dreadful time.

I do think we look for reasons as to why such an awful thing happens to us and it won't always be rational. I have never been diagnosed with any MH problems but have dreamt up loads of possible reasons why Sylvie-Rose died, some quite outlandish! I think it's probably normal.

chip please don't feel bad, it was a totally valid question x

To be honest I don't see how we can survive. I need him now, and he's not there, he's not emotionally available to me, and I need that closeness, now.

He has asked me "what's wrong?" Duh!!!! He then asked what I was thinking & I answered truthfully, that I was jealous of his ex wife, so jealous that she'd aborted very late in one pregnancy, as she was sleeping around & didn't know the father for sure, then she drank & smoked through her next two pregnancies, and her two little girls came out fine... and I'm sure the irony won't be lost on my DSS, (didn't mention the DSS part to DH).

DH just got all defensive of his ex. Asking why I was picking on her, when there were plenty of other women who had live babies. I just can't help but be upset that he defended her, I'm sure that he wishes that they could still be together.

DH did tell me, when I first told him that I was pregnant with Tamsin, that he never wanted another baby with me, he admitted he wanted a large family with his ex - and cited my bipolar as the reason.

I just want to know why I'm being punished, I'm so pissed off that DH defends his ex, I'm just so damned lonely

I really wish my family or friends had turned up today, i hate days like this, I just hate them. I could have done with someone, anyone, coming round to give me a hug

you're not being punished, bad things happen to good people too.

I'm pissed off that your "h" has defended his ex, it's completely understandable to be jealous of other people who have all their children! It's "normal" "typical" "expected" under the circumstances.

I wish we could help you feel less lonely, it's so awful when you desperately need your partner and emotionally they with hold themselves. (That I do have lots of experience of!)

Xposts

Can you text people and ask them to come around on x y z? Perhaps it's and easier way of doing it then phoning them?

"I could do with hug, would you be able to pop around on x or y?" It's easier to be there for someone when they tell you what they want and it is something you can provide IYSWIM.

Agree with Random. Sometimes people genuinely don't know whether you need them or whether they should just leave you alone. It does help if you give them a hint.

OK, I must be certfiably mad. I have been up since 6am, crying, going over everything, feeling so crap that I couldn't keep Tamsin safe, how I didn't really deserve her. Then going over the surgery, how horrifically it went wrong, purely because they let me labour too long, using too high a syntocin drip - even though I was worried due to my previous c-section - and because the powerful contactions had no effect, I ended up tearing badly. I'm now worried about this means for the future, I have no idea, but unlike everything else there should have been no reason for an emergency caesarean - they are usually carried out to save an unborn child, or when a uterus has ruptured - to have to undergo an emergency caesarean - to deliver a child the knew was dead, because the induction was managed wrongly seems even more unfair.

But, what's really upset me, is DH.

He's decided that we need to get a new sofa - today! He's even suggesting leaving me, and treavelling for two hours (each way) to look for one, even though I'm not allowed to pick up DD1.

HE said our existing sofa will hurt DD1 if she stands at the side, and her leg goes down. He gets angry that I'm not interested at looking at photos of sofas, he gets angry that I'm on here, he said that I obviously don't care for DD1's safety....

I'm just so upset, I'm not interested in bloody sofas, I do care for DD1, but I need DH to be here - in a more tactile way, not in a buying new furniture way, I want to be held, comforted... I fucking hate this!

I feel like making my hands into fists, and pummeling the hell out of him, I don't know why, but right now I just want to punch him

karma, one thing that has been suggested to me by the social worker, is that at some point I need to sit down with the doctors in charge of Sylvie-Rose's care and ask them questions about her care. I think when you are ready, you should probably do the same wrt your hysterectomy. I would certainly question the synotocin when you had a previous CS.

wrt to your dh, could it be that he is thinking that if he doesn't get the sofa, that something bad could happen to dd1 and that you might lose her too? I know my dh has been a bit paranoid about safety since Sylvie-Rose died and would like to wrap the boys in cotton wool. Poor ds1 is 15 and dh told him he couldn't go to school on his bike withouth wearing a luminous jacket. Ds1 goes to school in broad daylight and apparently wearing a luminous jacket is seriously uncool and "nobody else wears one" so arguments here!

Last year, ds1 could have gone to school on a unicycle and dh wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

NOT that that excuses the way he has spoken to you, which is really cutting and unsupportive.

I think you're right chip, he is overly paranoid. I, on the other hand, feel a bit like withdrawing from her - she was so close to me, and even when buying Tamsin things, I'd still have to buy her things. Yet, now, I still feel close to her, just very blunted, like all my feelings are number, less intense.

I do fancy, at times, just running away, coming back when she's an adult.

We did go out after I posted this morning. We went to a furniture shop in town, then to Tesco - which was hell! So many people milling around, so much noise, so many people bumping into you - and whereas once I would apologise, I now don't.

I realised too, that I feel more empty, but accepting today... and I hate that, it feels as if I'm letting her go. I now realise that she isn't ever going to be in the car seat, that her cries are never going to fill the house, and, whereas that caused me to feel as if I'd been stabbed in the chest a couple of days ago, now it just saddens me... I feel as if I'm moving on too quickly, which makes me feel dizzy... I want her back, but I know now that's never going to happen.

I must also apologise chip and everyone else I've mislead - I've not had a hysterctomy, they did manage to repair m womb - why I don't know. They did say it tore very badly, and was cut along the bottom - with a wider cut than usual, and was cut up each side (to make a flap), and there were tears at the top & back. They did take it out, but they meant out of the abdominal cavity, and placed it on my chest, to repair it. And they had to get the consultant out of bed to come, as the surgeon couldn't stem the bleed alone. Why they bothered I don't know really.

I tried to tell DH how I was feeling (as advised by the bereavement midwife, who told us both to talk all the time), yet when I asked how he felt he said that he didn't want or see the point, in telling me, he just needs to get on & do what needs to be done, and that I should stop "wallowing" in it too.

That response has left me feeling even more alone. I know it's more of a typical man response, but he was also told that by not talking it makes me feel alone, and to be honest, I do feel so alone. Without you guys I'd feel totally lost xx

You express yourself so eloquently, and your sadness about all the things you will miss about Tamsin not being here is very clear. It's hard to let go of the intense pain when it feels like a connection to her, but she will always be a part of you.

I'm sorry your DH is unable to listen to and comfort you at the moment. Sometimes it helps to have a third person such as your bereavement midwife there to help him understand what you need from him, but it sounds like he's not willing to take her advice on board. Focusing on practical things and not wanting to talk about feelings is a typical male response to bereavement. I hope you have someone else you can talk to, but appreciate that it is the love and support of your DH that would help the most.

Keep talking to us on here. Take care, and I hope you get some sleep tonight x

Karma why do you say you don't know why they bothered? I agree with chip, you need to, at some point, find out exactly what they were thinking to have handled your birth this way. When you feel ready obviously.
I think your DH sounds like he's making excuses not to process or deal with his own pain and it's likely that seeing you so sad is a physical reminder of what he's trying to block out as a coping mechanism, he seems resentful of you for that reason. He can't continue like that and needs to know he's allowed to grieve, and that you need his support as you grieve. You probably know this, I just hope you can get through to him. You do need each other - I hate to think of you feeling alone. Xx

Thank you both.

I typed out the story of Tamsin. I sent it to DH. He told me something he was thinking last night, and his repsonse pleased me. That the most trusting, least conspirasist thinks the same as me, was so refreshing. I cannot though tell you what this is, due to the consequences.

I have to say thought that I had a feeling of sheer panic last night. I realised that I may not have questioned the consultant (actually I never saw the consultant, I only ever got to see a SHO/registrar, and now wonder if they would have had the experience to pick up ny potential problems), sufficiently about the fall in AFI.

I remembered that when you have a scan before seeing the consultant (or their junior), that you don't get your notes back until you leave. It is because the experts are supposed to look at the scan, and be warned about any potential problems.

At the last scan the sonographer did ask if I'd noticed any leaking (I hadn't), and then just said that the fluid levels had gone down. She then said that she'd just look at Tamsin's kidneys. I did wonder why she did this, and asked if there was a problem, and she said that they looked fine - now there is no earthly reason why she would look at the kidneys, unless she was worried that there was a problem... it is not normal to look at kidneys at another time - only at the anomaly scan - or if you suspect a problem. Therefore she did believe the AFI to be a problem...but she never informed or alerted anyone to this fact.

I aslo asked if she was going to do a doppler, as she seemed to finish before she should have, and she said that it wasn't requested, but she had a quick cursory check, as I'd asked. Funnily enough I have in front of me now, the scan letter, stating it was for US third trimester growth scan & doppler study!

I did ask the SHO/registrar about the AFI (but I didn't know the numbers, just a feeling of unease gained from the sonographer looking at her kidneys), but she said the growth was fine. She was more concerned with how they were going to deliver Tamsin, as the scan had shown she was tranverse, and that they were going to admit me in a week (less than two days after she died). I also asked about the doppler thing.

I am now wracked with guilt. I thought it was odd, when I saw how much the AFI had fallen on the graph, but I didn't phone up the consultant & shout and scream... I really did fail Tamsin, as I knew it wasn't right, but stupidly believed that if there had been a problem then they'd had seen it - what the hell is the point in a scan if they don't act on it? And after the last scan I went mad about the doppler, and was assured by the Dr & midwife, that if there was a problem, they'd have acted on it - they'd have taken me in there & then... I (tragically) believed the same this time.

I've discovered that the falling AFI would have had a disastrous effect on the knot in her cord. The fall in fluid would have compressed it.

Knowing this has made me more distressed. I couldn't have known about the cord, but I did know the fluid had fallen. And I was arrogant, oh so arrogant, in my faith that the Dr would have taken action if it was abnormal... how the hell can i live with that. That seeing the graph, I didn't do something? I should have made a fuss, my daughter's life depended on it, yet I was too scared maybe? I'd ask once, but if assured that things were fine then I'd be too scared of making a fuss.

Should I have done something when I got home? Should I have presented myself at L&D and demanded they investigate the fallen AFI? I guess I hid behind the fact that the scan was performed before the consultant's appointment - surely this was so they could spot problems there and then? Should I never trust a Dr again?

The other puzzling thing is I had a scan at 28 weeks, then another at 36 weeks. This may seem a lot, but with DD1 they gave them to me every 4 weeks. I do believe the extra scan would have made a difference. I truly do. If the levels hadn't diminished slowly, then the last scan would have picked it up... there'd have been more cause for concern, as it would have been more obvious & would have shown as an acute condition.

By waiting another 4 weeks, means they could fool themelves that there was a gradual decrease in liquor - which I truly believe there wasn't - the fact is that in 5 days there was no fluid, I believe that her levels fell, and fell quickly, and that if they'd scanned me a day later, they'd have noticed a further decrease.

It's almost more unbearable if there was a problem, that was failed to be picked up. If it was preventable - I almost wish it was a sudden, unpreventable tragdey, but 'm almost convinced that if the AFI levels were flagged, then she could have been saved - and that is so distressing.

Even worse, I as her mother, did fail her. I didn't shout & kick & scream, I should have, instead i blindly trusted that the professionals knew what they were doing, and my daugther paid with her life... I can never forgive myself for that.

Karma - do you have a follow up appointment booked with the hospital? I really think you need to do this asap so that all these questions you have can be answered xx

karma, it wasn't your job to know what was normal, what scans were needed, whether there was a problem with the fluid. That is the job of the health care professionals. I'm an optometrist. People come to me for an eye exam maybe because they are experiencing some symptoms and it is up to me to decide whether they just need a pair of glasses or whether they need to be referred for further testing. I would not expect the patient to know, for example, that distorted letters could mean that there is fluid behind the macula and then blame the patient if I didn't refer appropriately. And if I tried to blame the patient, no-one would pay any heed because the patient is not the expert.

It's good that you have written it all down. When you feel ready, make that appointment but make sure that you have someone to support you when you go.

Thanks whatever & chip.

We went to spend the last time with Tamsin, before tomorrow's funeral, at the funeral directors.

The coffin was closed, as they say she would have deteriorated so much I wouldn't want to see her (it's two weeks since she was delivered - nearly 3 weeks since she died).

The comedy of errors (which is so not funny), continued - they had put the plaque on her coffin - in the name of "Tasmin"! DH told the funeral director how unhappy he was with this, so hopefully they will put her correct name on it by tomorrow.

I really want to dye my hair - I hate it blonde, and only had it this colour as I didn't want dye to touch my scalp & potentially harm Tamsin. I'm hoping that it's safe to dye after surgery, but feel I really, really want to change it

Karma - do you want to see her again? If so you have every right to. You can ask the funeral director to explain to you how she looks. Have they just assumed she has deteriorated? I only ask as Erin didn't change at all, she looked the same the night before her funeral when we went and put her in the casket as when she was born and over 2 weeks had passed (strangely she looked better). I hope I'm not out of line for saying this but from your post it sounds like the fd have told you you can't see her again. She is your daughter and if you want to you can see her. As for spelling her name wrong . As if you don't have enough to cope with.

What time is the service tomorrow? I am going to church to light a candle for Erin I shall light one for Tamsin too if that is okay. Is your ds and dss going to the funeral? Will be thinking of you xxx

Thank you Whatever the service is at 10am, that's a lovely thought xx

I'm not sure if I want to see her again. I kind of do, but at the same time her eyes had sunken so much the last time I saw her (a week ago saturday), and it did scare me. She had so much maceration when she was just out of me, all our photos of her face have skin missing on one side, the skin off her eyelids, her nose looked like it was bleeding.

The funeral director hasn't seen her, DH asked for her not to be unwrapped, so that the photos, teddies etc, were still with her, and I hope & pray they are - the only reason for seeing her would be to ensure this, but the bereavement midwife, and the FD have both assured me that she has them. I still am upset from how she last looked.

I feel as if I should see her, at the same time, I did say goodbye to her last saturday... so confused xx

Karma, it is so upsetting when they get things wrong. Lots of people thought Sylvie-Rose was Sylvia Rose and we have a lot of sympathy cards with that on them. Had she lived, I'm sure she would have ended up complaining about it herself. But when it's something permanent, you really do want them to get it right.
With regard to seeing her, really do what you think is right for you. There's no right or wrong in these situations.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Having read your posts I do not belive that you failed your daughter in any way. I hope at some point in the future you will see that too. I will be thinking of you and yor family tomorrow as you lay your angel to rest. xx

Thinking of you still karma

Thank you all xx

I feel a bit guilty at the moment; we've run out of ink, and I need to handwrite the poems for tomorrow.

DD1 was quiet until I sat down to start, then started whining & I shouted "shut the f**k up at her", she then really cried, so did I. I just felt utterly and totally pathetic, it's not her fault I know that.

I just felt overwhelmed with the fact that I wanted to spend some time, doing one last thing for her sister, and she was demanding my time. I then felt guilt - as I hate her crying. But I'm also so tired (I've been waking in the early hours unable to sleep & have to get up), and just need to do this before I get too tired.

I feel like the worst mum in the world

I will be thinking of you tomorrow karma. Come back and tell us about the funeral.

You could not possibly have foreseen what would happen to Tamsin, and I hope that when you do get the opportunity to go through things with a Consultant it will help you to realise there is nothing to blame yourself for.

Your DD1 won't come to any long term harm from you being a bit impatient with her now. When my sister died my DD was 6 months old, and I remember resenting her because she stopped me from getting involved with practical things that needed sorting. Even though she was my reason to go on living. She was a bit unsettled at the time but got over it.

You're not a bad Mum, and your DD1 will be fine, as I'm sure you will continue to offer her love and attention. Do you have someone to care for her during the funeral tomorrow?