For not wanting a sliver of pain during childbirth (support for stillbirth)

[karmathreefold]

and then wanting extreme agony as punishment?

It's my fault... I knew the baby wasn't as active as usual, yet I thought it was OK.

I had a friend who had a stillbirth & she told me to check out any reduced movements - which I did, for my son, DD & in this pregnancy.

But I fucking didn't on tuesday, and I waited till the evening, when I knew it should be more active till I went to hospital.

So now I have to give birth to it. It's fully formed at 37 weeks gestation. If I'd got to hospital on time it could have maybe been saved.

I don't want to feel pain giving birth; yet I feel I deserve it, why not after it's all my fault.

I've never felt such pain as I do no, so maybe even a drugs-free labour would be less painful.

Oh god, I don't want this pain, I can't stand it

karma, other people may have problems but we all come on to MN to have a laugh when we're up and for support when we're down. Please don't stop posting, you need us. And in a while, when you're feeling less raw, you will help others too, give and take.

Thank you all xx

I am waiting for my mum to come over.

HuntyCat & Random, thanks. I know that DH is abusive (though he would vehemently deny it), and Random, yes I agree, I think he's painting a pretty good picture of being the more responsible, deserving parent.

As for Tamsin's death, well I feel more guilty than ever. Yes DH was supposed to look after DD1, and he failed to do much (though he did come home earlier than expected), but what worries me is how responsible I am.

I'd never actually attributed her death to my slip on the stairs, and that slip was entirely my fault, so it was me who killed her, and now I have to live with that. To be honest the slip, was only the last three steps, and it was more one leg went down quicker, so I did a version of the splits, then landed on my (well padded) bum.

To start with I thought nothing of it, I'd not landed on my tummy, and I had no pain, it was only when I had some bleeding that I went to hospital, and all they did was put me on a monitor, feel my tummy & take a swab. The bleeding wasn't a lot to start with (about the same as I bled about 7 weeks before, when I strained going to the loo sorry TMI). By the time they took the swab the blood was brown, and it was scanty - believe me if it had been bright red, or pouring out of me, then I'd have called an ambulance, the bleed was sort of dark, pinky red, and mucusy like a period, not bright red 'thin' blood.

As the hospital were happy, and thought no harm was sustained, then I kinda dismissed it's significance. They did tell DH to lift DD1 etc, just in case there was some damage and lifting aggravated it - but as there was no further bleeding/spotting, I assumed it was fine. Then we had the scan (a week after the fall) where the sonographer said everything was fine (although the fluid levels had fallen). I suppose the levels could have fallen if I'd broken the waters during the fall, although the internal they performed should have shown that surely? And I also assume that if they'd gone they would have gone down completely a week later?

I suppose that if the waters had broken a bit, but resealed, than the strep B could have invaded the womb... Aaargh! Too many questions now, and I'm beating myself up, as the slip was entirely my fault, so if that was the cause, then I did kill her, and I can't live with myself if that is the case.

I am seeing the consultant on Tuesday, so I guess (hopefully) I will learn more then. I will ask her about the fall, but I would have hoped that the SHO/registrar on duty should have kept me in, if there was any possibility of harm to Tamsin.

Whatever the outcome of any findings etc. The slip was an accident, your dh's lack of support, leaving you whilst collecting his ds, making you move the scan date if you wanted him there etc was a deliberate choice because he continually puts his needs and desire before you, before dd1 and before Tamsin .

When you're heavily pregnant slipping on stairs is so easy (done it more than once).

Please be very kind to yourself you've become so used to the abuse from him I'm surprised you are still functioning as well as you are.

Huge hugs x

Karma please don't blame yourself for slipping on the stairs. The amniotic fluid around the baby should cushion the fall, and the bleeding you had later probably isn't related to it. I hope you will get some reassurance about this when you see your consultant this week.
I hope that your Mum is able to support you tonight x

Only just caught up with this Karma.I am heart scalded for you and your family.If you don't mind I will say an extra prayer after my rosary tonight for all of you, espicially baby Tamsin Rainbow. Mx.

It has been good being with my mum, but I've had to come home for tonight, as my nephew (who's 10) is staying there tonight, as my sister has the day off tomorrow, and wants a lie in

I've got my consulant appointment tomorrow, and don't what to ask. I have all sorts of questions, from the indicators that Tamsin may have been in trouble, to (what I think) the disatrous way they managed my induction and subsequent labour - my mum reminded me of when she visited me, 10 hours before the EMCS, when they put me on the syntocinon drip, and told the consultant she was worried about uterine rupture (something I continually asked them about), and his assurance that I'd deliver within two hours, if not they'd give me a "chilled" caesarean, which of course never happened, they left me for a long time, and then my uterus did rupture.

I also don't know whether (in time) to complain about a specific midwife. I feel guilty saying anything negative about her, as I don't think she's nasty or horrible - quite the opposite, but she did do things that I find hard to forgive/forget.

About 7 hours after labour began I was given a diamorphine injection. It just sent me to sleep (and DH had to get help & they had to wake me, as my breathing got very laboured adn I started wheezing - I have very bad asthma). i didn't like the reaction. After it wore off I asked for an epidural. This midwfife refused me (despite being told that under the circumstances I could have whatever pain relief I needed). She insisted that I have another diamporphine, as it would speed up labour, she also tried to teach me ways of 'breathing' through the pain

The second diamorphine had a disastrous effect and sent me loopy! I had no idea where I was, I was scared, I tried to run away, and when it got me to sleep I again had problems breathing.

Eventually she agreed to let me have an epidural, but it took ages as she said I was in a queue of other women waiting - despite the fact I'd been told (by the consultant) that I should take priority over others.

She looked after me the next night, and took great delight in telling me that it was my fault I hadn't progresssed as I refused another diamorphine (yet Tamsin would never* have moved position I've now found out.

When I'd not progressed much (hours after being on the drip), the SHO on duty, asked her to stop it, whilst he phoned the consultant, however, she argued with him, saying that the consultant had said to give it another 3 hours (which was true, but the SHO must have known something was wrong if he'd made that call). The midwife, however, shouted him down, and he conceded to wait, but wasn not happy. Of course, it did end up with an EMCS, and seveal uterine tears - and the SHO couldn't stem the bleeding himself.

When in recovery a special blanket was put over me, filled with warm air. The midwife argued with the consulant, saying I shouldn't have it, and I was shaking due to "anxiety" - when the real reason was hypovelmic shock, caused by the massive blood loss.

An hour later she needed to change my pad, and made me try to lift my bottom, which then resulted in my incision opening, and I needed a surgeon back in.

What upsets me, perhaps the most, was that she didn't dress Tamsin in the clothes I wanted her in, she instead first wrapped her in tissue, with moisturiser, to rub off her skin (meaning even photos of her hand & feet, have no skin above them, and put on a bonnet, with string under, which pulled the skin off her neck, and also off part of her face...

I know it's not her fault that Tamisn's skin was so fragile, but I'd specifically asked for certain clothes to be put on her, and didn't want her skin rubbed off with tissue paper - I felt so helpless, powerless, voiceless & angry... I actually told her to fck off back in the room

maras2 Thank you xx

karma at that nurse! I hope you have it all written down. She is probably not a bad person but she needs re-education about stillbirth!

karma, so glad you have had one night with your mum. It's the right thing to do. Hope you managed to sleep and feel better for it.

Do write down all your questions for the consultant. Like you, I still have a lot of questions as well about Mia, and they go around and around my head. I was told to write them down whenever I think of them. Maybe even take a copy of some of your questions here as a prompt, and talk through your own experience of that night tomorrow so your consultant can hear from you - I am sure that they won't have the full picture. I'm sure you could take someone in with you if you wanted, if that would help.

That midwife was unbelievable! And not in a good way. I am so sorry that she caused you extra pain.

Had the consultant's appointment today - and it was quite a shock!

I asked all the questions I had, I asked about the AFI levels, and the doppler studies, and again everything was considered fine - the most pertinent question was - would they change anything if another patient presented with the same profile, knowing my outcome, and no the same care would be given, as none of this was considered abnormal at all.

I asked about the slip on the stairs, and she said she'd noticed that from my notes, but the fact that I'd attended the hospital, that the CTG was normal, the bleeding didn't continue (it stopped very quickly), and the scan was a week later, and was fine, meant she thought it wasn't contributory.

I also don't have group strep B, I have milleri, which is apparently different.

I did, however, test positive for lupus anticoagulant, and should take baby aspirin if I get pregnant again, followed by heparin injections (if the test today confirms it). Even if todays test is negative, then she recommends baby aspirin, as she said in light of the test at Tamsin's death, and the fact that she was stillborn, then it would be helpful.

She also said that the labour (in hindsight) should have been managed differently.

I have to say the lupus thing shocks me, it wasn't even a thing I'd considered. The only thing that does add up is the petechiae rash I had, and the raised ESR levels. I also had several miscarriages before DS, but as he & DD1 were fine, I never thought about it again. Tamsin was also a lot smaller than the scans showed, she was between DS & DD1 on the scan plots, but her actual weight took her way below both!

I didn't cry at the appointment, and felt guilty, but did cry before at the grave. I do now feel guilty that my body probably killed her

I hope that you feel that your questions were addressed properly, and that you can ask to be seen again if there are things you still need to talk about. It's hard to know what to ask when given new information about lupus.

Saying that labour should have been managed differently is a massive understatement- it sounds extremely traumatic, and I hope that lessons will have been learned so that others don't go through similar experiences. I certainly hope the midwife you had will learn from it.

I understand that you feel guilty but there is no rational reason why you should. Take care, and I hope you have someone you can talk to with you tonight x

karma, try not to feel guilty. I honestly don't think that anyone can give you a definite answer as to what caused Tamsin's death and even if it was lupus, then it's not your fault that you have it.

karma, I echo chipmonkey's words. It is not useful to your own healing to blame yourself. Sometimes, life doesn't make sense - and somehow, we have to accept that, as hard as that may be. (I am telling myself this as much as I am saying it to you.)

Karma please please please start being kind and compassionate to yourself x

Thanks, I'm not feeling so much guilt now, more sad again (gosh my feelings are so unbelievable unstable and volatile).

I looked at a picture of Tamsin's hand last night, and it just made me well up - it was so impossibly perfect, just perfect, and it breaks my heart to think they never felt anything on this earthly plane :(

I thought about doing some baking today - I rediscovered my love for it whilst pregnant, and DD1 certainly enjoyed my efforts... I now can't face it, as it reminds me so much of being pregnant, Tamsin kicking and above all being truly happy. It hurts so much to feel like that, I'm almost sure I'll stop breathing if I think too much - surely I shouldn't still be thinking like this?

I've also a confession - and I feel awful for this - I let my dad down. He gave me a photo of him & my mum, with a lock of each of their hair on the back, to put in with Tamsin, and I didn't. I thought about it, but I just couldn't, and DH didn't want me to either. I did put in a photo of DH & I, and DH, Tamsin & I (we didn't include our hair though), but I just didn't. I did show Tamsin the photo, and touched their hair to her face, but just kept the photo. I now feel so guilty - guilty that I deprived Tamsin, guilty that I cheated my dad... but at the time it didn't feel right...

My dad was the only other family member to see Tamsin (apart from DH, DD1 & I), and he now says he wishes he hadn't, and has had nightmares since... this saddens me too, saddens me that he would want to deprive Tamsin of her familial links, and also that her appearance has maybe upset him - I hope that's not the case, but it does sadden me, as I want him to love her

I also wondered about joining in on the bereaved parents thread?

Of course you should join us, karma! We're the gentlest of the Mumsnet vipers, dontcha know!

karma, you didn't let your Dad down. Tamsin can see him from where she is and it's that connection that matters. He'll always be her Grandad. Sorry to hear he's had nightmares but I am wondering why he told you that? It's not helpful for you to hear that.

Karma, there is nothing wrong with feeling happy as you think of Tamsin. I do it all the time. I almost have to, at the moment... if I don't remember the good feelings, it's as if I deny Mia, and what she meant to me, , and that is something I just can't do. She matters. Tamsin matters, she is part of your life.

Don't feel guilty about your Dad. It was your choice, after all, Tamsin is your daughter. Maybe he might need to talk to someone about Tamsin - Grandparents often get forgotten, I think. I know that my parents are still incredibly upset, and my father cries each time we are on the phone. My dad cries for Mia herself, for my pain, for their pain, and their pain at my pain. Your father might be the same, and not know how to deal with his grief.

And yes, do join chip and I, and the others, on the bereaved mothers thread. That's where you can receive lots of support, love and humour - and most importantly - understanding - of almost every single emotion you are feeling. I don't know how to link you to it, but I think it was chip who invited me, so she obviously is bit of a techy whiz kid!

Karms still being so harsh on yourself! It's still such early days, of course your feeling of sadness, grief and everything else are still going to be overwhelming.

Thinking of you x

LOL at being a techy whizz kid ! Dh just gave me a Kindle for my birthday and I asked him how to take the protective cover off the screen. Only it turns out that the protective cover was the screen. I can do links but am on my phone at the moment. I will do the link later.

I've put this on here, as I don't want to pollute the bereavement thread, and I don't expect anybody to read, or answer, I just need to get it down.

I'm really, really struggling at the moment. I can't stop crying over Tamsin, I feel that I want to join her, the feeling is so damned strong now, I want to be out of the realm of having to feel - anything.

I just shouted at DD1, as she took off her trousers (from next) and they had a butterfly with diamante crystals on their antennae. She was laughing and I saw a glint in her mouth, and realised she'd chewed one off, and I panicked - how stupid is that??? I chased her, telling her she was bad, and eventually got it out of her mouth, then gave her more milk for feeling guilty.

I worry sick over changing her nappy now. When she gets bits of 'poo' into her lady bits, I've always just scooped them out, but she's now decided she likes putting her hands down there. If I try to clean her there, she clamps her thighs together and gets upset... I either have to try to prise them, or leave her a bit dirty - I'm worried sick that if I persist that I'll hurt her, that I'll damage her, yet if I leave her she may get an infection - I know how stupid that may sound, but i'm hypervenitlating and have got a headache from this worry.

On top of that I'm more & more concerned about DH. I've talked to my mum, my friends, my sister - even the bereavement midwife, and they all think he's great! My mum thinks he's just really upset (which is true), and that yes, he's done things wrong, but now is not the time to end it.

Yet I'm going paranoid over the photos of his willy I found on his camera. I just can't stop thinking about them. I did post earlier this year, but was pregnant, and to be honest, the baby (Tamsin) was far more important than what DH was getting up to.

I've been scouring sites such as fuckbook, and cougarshag, extramarital affair and so on. The penis photos on there are so similar to the ones he took. he had 20 of them, all different poses.

I did tell my psychiatrist about them, and he admitted it, but said he'd meant to send them to me when DD1 was born - but I can't and don't believe him - why would a man take 20 photos of his dick, to send to his wife who is in hospital having a baby?

I now wonder if the holiday he took abroad, alone, when DD1 was 4 months old, was in fact taken with a someone from one of these sites. After all there was a photo of the table in his apartment, with two coffee cups on, though he swears blind that it was because the cups were small, and he needed two for a decent cuppa.

Then there was the time, when pregnant with Tamsin, that I came home from shopping, to find his ex f*ck buddy in the house, all seemingly innocent, and DD1 found his ball stretcher on the sofa. He claims that it was there as he was decorating the kitchen (which is true).

I don't know I'm so suspicious, and unhappy. I wish the closeness we had in hospital, after Tamsin died, was genuine, but suspecting it's not just adds to my misery.

I think I am paranoid, maybe men do take 20 photos of their willys, and store them on their phone, maybe men do take off on holiday, abroad, alone (without any friends - completely solo), leaving their wives with tiny babies, and suffering from PND. Maybe men on these holidays, do have two coffee cups, as one is genuinely not big enough.

Oh God, I just want Tamsin, to be honest she was the only reason I was staying, as I knew how unhealthy the relationship was, but now I feel disloyal to her by wanting to leave her dad.

I think your dh is a lying arse sorry. He is so skillfull at lying he's taken the others in and you are almost but not quite taken in.

I think he went on holiday with some woman.

I think he is involved with the woman where he work as a volunteer.

His ex-f buddy may or may not be a current one

What woman who is in hospital giving birth wants to be sent 20 photos of her husbands dick??????????????????????????????

I think the closeness you had was genuine at that time his emotional priorities were grief, something you were sharing.

Sorry I just can't think of what else to say. If you can find the strength bide your time whilst you recover/come to terms with losing Tamsin a bit more and then leave. Look at his ds's behaviour that is a result in part of his parenting, do you want that for your dd1?

You are vulberable, he can blame your bi-polar so easily for anything and everything, he has you where he wants you IMHO trapped unable to leave with dd1.

Agree with Random. Even one of those things in isolation would be bad enough but together it paints him in a very bad light, both the deeds themselves and his frankly laughable excuses. As to your Mum's assertion that now is not the time to end it? In a way she's right but only in that the time to end it was probably way before Tamsin was born. He has put you through quite enough, karma, as if life itself hadn't been cruel enough.

Karma
If you've tested positive for LA then you should be referred to a Rheumatologist urgently. You may need to go on long-term anticoagulant/Warfarin therapy and take Plaquenil or another DMARD.

karma You are not being paranoid, your H is manipulating you terribly and his behaviour is unacceptable. You know this. But - and I don't think you believe it yet - you don't deserve to live with this behaviour anymore. It doesn't actually matter what anyone else things. You know the truth.

And there is no way you are being disloyal to Tamsin by wanting to leave. If anything, you are being loyal to her - and yourself - to think this way. (And, btw, you are being a good mother to your DD1, and that is very evident about your concern for her.)