For not wanting a sliver of pain during childbirth (support for stillbirth)

[karmathreefold]

and then wanting extreme agony as punishment?

It's my fault... I knew the baby wasn't as active as usual, yet I thought it was OK.

I had a friend who had a stillbirth & she told me to check out any reduced movements - which I did, for my son, DD & in this pregnancy.

But I fucking didn't on tuesday, and I waited till the evening, when I knew it should be more active till I went to hospital.

So now I have to give birth to it. It's fully formed at 37 weeks gestation. If I'd got to hospital on time it could have maybe been saved.

I don't want to feel pain giving birth; yet I feel I deserve it, why not after it's all my fault.

I've never felt such pain as I do no, so maybe even a drugs-free labour would be less painful.

Oh god, I don't want this pain, I can't stand it

whatever I'm so glad to know I'm not alone in thinking that.

chip thank you, I've tried to think that, and I logically know it, but I just can't think logically.

Funnily enough I am Pagan, but we had Tamsin blessed by a C of E Chaplain, and had a C of E funeral service, I have no idea why, it just felt right, and I guess I felt more comforted... everything has been so blurred, confused & just plain wrong, so it made more sense to turn to what DH & I knew from childhood, and it was comforting, and felt right.

I've been waking very early in the morning, and that is the worst time, as then you remember again, and then tears fill my eyes, and I cannot get back to sleep.

Today though, I cried, but then stopped, and now just feel very sad. I'm worried that the crying has stopped a bit, I'm worried that I'm not feeling deep enough, that I'm shallow.

DH didn't help yesterday, when he caught me saying that I couldn't stop crying. He accused me of over-dramatising & making it more "Hollywood". He told me that I don't cry all the time (I meant that suddenly I become overwhelmed and will start crying without being able to stop). He also said that I'm "in despair", and that the fact that I have a dental appointment (due to the fact that my gums have been bleeding profusely for months), is a testament to the fact that i care for myself, and if I was really upset then I wouldn't go to the dentist as I wouldn't care for myself.

I'm so confused now. Maybe I am being disloyal going to the dentist, maybe I should just sit in a heap in the corner sobbing all day, unable to get up and do anything else...maybe I don't care enough.

I'm scared the tears are less now than they were, and that means I'm letting go, and didn't really care, yet in my heart I do, I really do... I'm not interested in life anywhere near as much, it's just a case of getting through the days, rather than looking forward. Part of me died with Tamsin, that I'm sure of.

karma just wanted to post and send you a big hug.

We lost our Baby Joseph in Sept at 35 weeks pregnancy. I also feel like part of me died when he left us but I also feel like he is always with me and try and find comfort in this.

If you want to cry then cry if you want to laugh then laugh. There is no right or wrong and I have made the descision to do what I want to do and not force myself to do or be something just because that is what people would expect. I am taking my time in healing and taking each process as it comes.

Someone asked me if I felt bad if I had a good time!! strange question but I know how much I loved Joseph and what I feel about him so the answer is no. But I do want Joseph to look at as us as a family having fun and being proud if us and glad he is part of our family, even if only in spirit.

Be kind to yourself and find some good people to talk to. Mumsnet, SANDS and close friends have been my support network.

wtf? Going to the dentist is hardly an indulgence, is it? It's not like going to a spa fgs! I would say that I am crying all the time too but it's not literally true, I just mean that I frequently break down in tears.
I don't attend church regularly but still had a Catholic Mass for Sylvie-Rose's funeral. It did seem the right thing to do. The priest did ask if we wanted a Mass( probably well aware that my face is not usually in the congregation) and I was emphatic that I did.
As a matter of interest, what do Pagans believe happens when you die? I always meant to find out more about it but never got round to it.

OMG what planet is your husband on. You have other children, your life needs to go on they need you!!! You clearly have a dental problem you need to go the dentist. Starting to lifes mundane things doesn't mean you don't feel, doesn't mean you're not grieving, doesn't mean that you are in any way coming to terms with Tamsin's death (yet) - these are teeny tiny steps in recognising that you can carry on living despite what has happened.

Huge hugs Karma I really don't understand why he is having a go at you instead of supporting you

It wasn?t supposed to be like this
Our first hello, being our final kiss
To never hear you cry or laugh
To wash your hair, or give you a bath

It was supposed to be all happiness and light
Instead we faced our darkest night
The demons that we had to slay
Inflicted wounds so deep they?ll always stay

Through you we have known intense sorrow and joy
Great Braveness & strength we?ve had to employ
So easy to have given in to despair and gloom
Tears of blood were wept from your mummy?s womb

We long to hear your cries at night
To see your face in bright sunlight
To hold your hand as you walk along
To beam with pride as you sing your first song

Instead our heavy hearts have been broken
our empty arms to you will always remain open
we long to never let you go
but goodnight now beautiful Tamsin Rainbow

karma, that is beautiful! Lovely, lovely words for your darling Tamsin.

That's beautiful and thanks for sharing it with us.

That is absolutely beautiful and its just perfect that you wrote that for your daughter.
I wish I had been so eloquent when DD1 died, I just managed a simple sentence, something like "too perfect for this world, God has called you home". Your poem will stay with you forever.

Thank you for sharing Karma it's beautiful. What a lovely thing you did for Tamsin xx

Thank you for your kind words.

I really thought I was 'over it'. Yesterday I cried only briefly in the morning, then managed the day - including visiting the grave - without too much trauma. i did think I'd turned a corner & was worried, and relieved in equal measure.

Then today it's hit again... and i feel back to the beginning.

The blame is crippling me.

I'm still angry at myself for not making a fuss with the fluid levels - though I can rationalise that more, as I had been seen at hospital, and technically both the sonographer, and the doctor should have noticed a potential problem, but I still the guilt of thinking there was a problem and not questioning it more, though a friend pointed out the even if I'd presented myself at L&D about it, they'd have turned me away due to the fact no one medical was concerned... or just put me on a monitor, and as her heart was fine during the scan, then I assume it would have been on a monitor that day, so I guess it would have proved nothing.

The guilt though is from the Tuesday. I woke in the morning with pang that something was wrong - I'd slept all night, but Tamsin was most active then, and when I woke I realised that I'd not felt her - but I just dismissed it, thinking that I'd been too deeply asleep to notice, and she didn't usually wake me. What was unusual was DD1 slept through, and it was wen trying to settle her, that Tamsin always made her presence felt, yet DD1 hadn't got me up, and that is why I had the pang - like a sick, gut feeling.

Then I phoned my mum before lunch, and she said that I should go to the dr - but I didn't, I assumed that she was moving, and I'd just not felt her - how fucking selfish does that make me?

I'm totally tortured with the worry that she was struggling that morning, and I just did nothing, yet if I'd acted she'd be here now... the thought has me so upset that I hate that I have to go on for DD1 & my DS. I just feel like throwing myself out of a window, I really don't know if I can live with myself, if I left her to die... the only wa I can live with it, is thinking that she was already dead, that she died overnight on Monday, and that's why I woke with the sense of foreboding.

I also feel differently towards friends. One friend told me that she's been going through old statuses of mine on facebook (when I used to post jokes), as she was trying to get the "old" me back. I feel so ridiculous, I realise that it makes people uncomfortable but I don't give a shit, I don't want to post jokes anymore.

I was also told by someone to just "smile" and remember I have DD1. I don't know, as I don't want to smile!

I also don't want to return to the same life I had before. I don't want to meet the same friends as I did with DD1 and do the same things, they're far too wrapped up in my memories of Tamsin, and being pregnant. I just have no desire to meet them again, and feel like I want to find new things to do with DD1 & new friends, as I just don't want to go back to mother & toddler groups, and musical groups (which DD1 never really liked). I just want time out from that stuff, but have the crisis team on my back telling me I have to (the bereavement midwife said it's fine to not go anywhere at the moment, till I feel ready).

To be honest I never took DS to any mother & baby group, or anywhere, he just started playgroup when he was old enough to go, and was fine. I tried harder with DD1, and just don't want to go back to it, it's far too painful.

Karma it is still very early days. I am not surprised that you dont feel that you want to do toddler groups and all the being social stuff! I just needed to do what I could cope with at that time for months and months. I wanted to shut myself away from life. I likened it to life on a motorway. Everyone else was racing by with their life and I felt stuck on the hard shoulder. It is sooo tough. Just take each day as it comes. I am pleased that you had a better day yesterday. Dont worry that you feel back to square one again today. That will happen, but gradually you will have more times of feeling like you did yesterday, but without the guilt of feeling like it.
I clearly remember the first time I properly laughed after DD1 died. I immediately burst into tears because I could not believe that I would ever laugh again. I felt so bad for laughing! But I now laugh and am happy. I will never forget her but I have learnt to live with her in my heart without it being painful.

Thank you positive, it's good to know that I'm not weird in that respect, the motorway analogy is so very true, though DH is getting more, and more, impatient with me - can I not make love yet? (It's three weeks today that I had the caesrean that went very wrong), and wants me to be getting back to normal. I find that, along with the crisis team telling me that I should go out everyday & have activities very stressful, and to be honest I'm sure I'd recover (I say recover though I don't think it's the right word), quicker, if left to muddle, and find a new lift & new things, that I'm more comfortable with, rather than tryiing to be forced out back to my old life, which I really can't face.

I went to Morrison's on Friday, the second time since it happened. The first time was rough, but manageable, but Friday there was so many newborn babies everywhere. Of course the mums didn't have any idea, but their proud idolisation of their new offspring, did hurt. One mum, whose baby must have been about two weeks - the same age as Tamsin would have been if born alive - stood behind us as we packed. She lifted her baby up & showed her off to the adoring staff...I couldn't stop sobbing, it was if she was mocking me (she wasn't I know).

The cashier, all dressed up for Children In Need, cheerfully asked us if we'd "had a good day?" and I just glared at her. It was impossible to even try to be polite with a newborn baby, the same age as Tamsin should have been, stood behind us, and anyway I don't answer the question "how are you?" anymore - I just don't give a shite how awful that makes me, I don't want to be horrible to people, but I just don't want to conform to social niceties right now.

DH is busily preparing to dispose of all the baby equipment today. He's listing it on Ebay. I'm very keen on selling the Double Nipper, I just can't bear having that here, I so looked forward to pushing both my daughters in it, and to see it just kills me. Ditto the Phil & Ted's Cocoon, that Tamsin was to lie in, in it.

He also wants to sell the Moses Basket - which was also second hand, but has a brand new - unpoened - mattress (of course I was never going to use a used one for Tamsin). He's also planning on selling the gliding crib - which was DD1's and I don't want to sell. He says that it's the way, but I don't want to let it go.

Aargh! Help!!!! What's wrong with me?

I guess that I'd like to keep the other things - just in case (I can't believe I'm saying that). But, I know, that DH definitely does not want to even contemplate the thought of maybe having another child (I know that makes me sound so evil, to even have those thoughts, as Tamsin was going to be my last).

After the major uterine surgery, and scars, it may not be possible for me to conceive, that and my age. But I won't know about the uterine surgery till the consultant appointment in the beginning of december, and want to defer some disposing of baby stuff, till after then. Is that wrong?

I kind of feel gutted that DH definitely doesn't want to try again - ever! I feel doubly robbed (if didn't happen then I'd accept it), but I just don't understand how he'd have accepted & loved Tamsin, but is now saying no to ever having another baby - when we should have one now. And it's not fear on his behalf, he didn't want Tamsin when I first got pregnant, but did come round...this all feels so final!

I think it's very soon to dispose of everything, I just feel so much for you Karma. Three weeks after major surgery is so little time let alone the fact that your darling Tamsin was only born 3 weeks ago .

I can understand the wanting to build yourself a new and different social circle, again perfectly reasonable to me. I'm so sorry that you are being pressured from so many sides to run before you are even ready to stand up let alone walk.

I'm sorry that you're still so troubled by thoughts of blame, and it's impossible to know when she died. I really don't think that going to hospital earlier on the Tuesday would have changed the outcome. I hope that your consultant appointment will help you.

I agree that it's much too early to make any decisions about getting rid of equipment that you're not happy to let go of yet. It's perfectly natural to yearn for another baby too, although any future pregnancy would be an anxious time.

Don't feel guilty for having some times when you feel you're coping a bit better, and then feeling back to square one again. Gradually the better times should last longer.

I hope you will find new friends that can understand what you're going through. I don't know if there are any SANDS group or other local bereaved parents group you could go to to meet new people? Your bereavement midwife sounds much more knowledgable about grieving than your crisis team, so it's ok to trust your intstinct that going back to previous social groups is not right for you at the moment.

karma, dd's moses basket is still in my bedroom, the pushchair is in the dining room, there is a big cot in ds3 and ds4's room, changing table in the bathroom.
I will move them on when I am good and ready. And the only way I will have another child is by adoption and we don't know if we are going to try to go down that route. It seems very early days for your dh to get rid of everything particularly when you dont' want him to. Now, I am not going to hang on to everything forever but I think it's better to do it slowly, one item at a time.

Oh, and your friend that went through your old facebook status........wtf? The "old you" is still in there somewhere and you will laugh and joke again but I am flabbergasted that a good friend would say that to you, rather than supporting you. If you lose a child, you are still you, you are a wounded and shell-shocked version of yourself and it takes time to recover. When you do recover, you are still recognisable but you bear the scars. Far too soon for anyone to be looking for the old you.

How are you doing Karma? Still thinking of you xx

Oh Karma, you sound so uncertain in your emotions. Please know that they are all valid. I don't know much about anything, but I do know that everyone grieves differently - and no-one has the right to put a timeline or expectations on you as you adapt to a new reality without Tamsin. That is not fair on you.

Thanks.

MiaAlexandrasmummy I've read your thread, and so dreadfully sorry for you, so very sorry xx Mia sounded absolutely beautiful, life really is very unfair and cruel xx

The crisis team have now discharged me - they say I'm coping remarkably well (after several phone calls from my midwife, saying she thought they were making the grieving process worse, by continually coming and asking "how is your mood today?").

I'm not quite sure how I feel about this. I'm relieved, as I was fed up with being asked silly questions, and being told that I needed to "go out and socialise". But I now feel as if I'm wrong in some way - if my grief isn't severe enought, if I'm not sad enough, if this means that I didn't love Tamsin enough... maybe I'm just being stupid, but it does seem to invalidate the depth of my feelings, if the crisis team are saying that I'm coping well. I don't know, it seems if they come they annoy me, if they don't then they think I'm better and have moved on...

And it's that thought that scares me, that everyone has now assumed I've moved on, and am over it, when they don't know how I feel, the scars inside that burn so fiercely, that everytime I think of Tamsin I'm struck with a sense of fear - a real adrenaline hit, like the fight or flight syndrome.

I guess it's an intense feel of panic, similar to what I felt when my windows were broken at 4am one morning when deeply asleep, I can't for the life of me figure out why I panic and my heart rate increases when I think of Tamsin.

I also feel like a fraud WRT my mental health - everyone assumed I'd have a breakdown, but I haven't, so i feel that I should stop my medication. Then, in a rational moment, I realise that a mental breakdown is more likely to occur later, and that now, my raw grief is protecting me, but when that wears off, I'm at increased risk.

DH seems to be very angry now. Yesterday, whilst driving to the cemetery, he got out of the car (in a traffic jam) to confront the driver behind. I don't blame him TBH. The cemetery is down a road where two schools are, and lots of the kids have cars. The road is therefore very difficult to naviagate. To compound this, there was a funeral, and the cars were coming at us, but there were so many, and they were on our side (as the cars were parked on theirs) but we couldn't get past them... there was no way unless we crashed into them, yet the prat behind was tooting and giving the finger.

DH is generally much more grumpy than usual. He shouted at someone on the phone and has much less patience. I, on the other hand, am almost trying to forget - I can't, yet I'm pretending like it's not happened

I get a panicky feeling as well, karma and it doesn't make much sense to me either. One night I woke up having difficulty breathing and that is not like me at all. I think others have said the same.

Lots of heart racing moments here too. I also waver between thinking that Mia was a beautiful dream, and that this life is a terrible nightmare and I will wake and everything will be ok again.

Your crisis team sound totally weird. Thank goodness the hospital has left me alone - no way could I provide them with any polite answers to those inane questions. There are other support services out there (although I haven't used them yet either) who will offer you real help.

But hope that you have friends and family to call upon. However, I have found that people are worried about 'intruding' even if they desperately want to help. Yet how do you know what you need and when??? It's also often hard to ask for help too. Well, for me. Instead, I have just asked people to invite me / us to do stuff, and allow us the option to say yes or no. That seems to be working ok for now.

Seems a common reaction then. Thinking about it, I guess that when I think about her, I panic that I've lost her... crazy, as logically I know I have, but somehow the panicky feelings - when I was told that she'd died - have come back, and it's the same feeling, as though I'm thinking, still, that's its not real, that I can find a way to have her back.

Mia I do understand about the dream/nightmare scenario (though obviously you have far more memories of precious Mia), but I too do think that I'll wake, or that I've stepped into the wrong life.

I went into Boots after the dentist. I was searching for a replica of the outfit that Tamsin was buried in - and I fell to pieces. I felt that I had no right to be there, that the baby department was forbidden to people like me. It hurt so bad, and I did cry - and there was no outfit.

I did print out a couple of photos of Tamsin being held by us, so that I can put them by my bed, and I used the self-service thing, only then to realise you have to go to the till - no biggie, after all, they'll just look at my receipt for me to pay, and I was shocked, when the assistant then looked at the photos.

I was also upset by the dentist's reaction - he offered to take my bag, he collected me personally, the staff etc, accepted my maternity exemption certificate - yet no one asked what I'd had. I realised that my mum had told them, and they never said a word... I was quite angry with my mum. I know that she did it for me, but I feel cheated - I had a baby, and would have liked to have told people myself, I now feel cheated out of the whole thing... It was as though she mustn't be mentioned and I'm really quite upset with my mum, as she's hurt me more.

Also the pushchair went last night. I was fine with it being shown to the bloke, fine with looking at it - yet when it went I did cry, it was like confirmation that Tamsin was never going to go in it. Yet, we're not getting rid of ther things yet, which is good, but I didn't want the pushchair, and the money will be useful, just can't understand why I got so upset after it'd gone

OK, I'm sorry for endlessly moaning on here, especially when others are grieving, but I find it cathartic to spill it out, and I do find it hard in real life.

My sister's just rang me. She asked how I was, and I stupidly said OK, as I just didn't feel like answering such a question (I hate when people ask me that).

She then proceeded to talk about how she went to get some boots, but how her calf muscles are too big, how she has a hospital appointment for something or other (she's always being investigated for something). Moaning about the husband she is divorcing.

She then proceeded to ask if I'm "better now?" Err... am I going mad, or is that an inappropriate kind of question, like I should be "better"? That having carried a child until it was close to being born, having to give birth to that child - which was a horrific delivery in itself, even if Tamsin had been born alive, having to then look upon her, so very like her sister, who is incredibly beautiful (and I'm always being stopped as she is so bonny, and that's not a mother's pride, and I have no idea where she gets it from), and then having to bury that child - the one I honestly felt like I bonded more than her sister or half-brother... to ask if I'm "better" from that, as if she was a 'cold' or a broken leg...

My sister (and I had posted about her before Tamsin died, probably under a different name), did get very upset after the birth. She wanted to see, or talk to me, and I didn't want to talk to anyone - except DH and the midwife for a while. She told me that she felt "left out & pushed to one side"...honestly!!!!!

So yeah, I feel really alone right now. Sure I have DH, but still, I want more understanding. I don't want to be asked how I am, I want people to understand that I feel shit, that to me my world has crashed down, I don't want to have to tell others that, or to hear their problems, unless I ask.

Another friend, has asked if I want to see her. I said yes. It now transpires that she wants to meet in town - on Saturday. Sure I go out, but on a saturday, in town, with lots of families & noise, is not what I want to do...I wish she would come here, but she won't. I feel that she, like my sister, expects me to be "better", and I feel both a burden, and incredibly hurt, that they don't realise how hard this is

Omg. Let it all out if it helps!!!

Either your sister and friend are unbelievably insensitive - or they feel awkward in dealing with such a difficult topic as your Tamsin. British reserve isn't a great help in this sort of situation. If you can't speak to them directly about how you feel, could you do it by email? People may be seeking the lead from you, as ridiculous as that seems.

In this country we talk about everything.....sex, politics, sport, etc etc etc but the major 'no, no' is to talk about death. Especially the death of a baby or child. After listening to many insensitive comments over the years I have come to the conclusion that we shouldn't just teach our children 'sex education' - we should teach them how to cope with bereavement. I wish I had a penny for everytime someone said to me 'Are you over it now'....'Your sons have gone to a better place' or 'God must have wanted them.' All I wanted was a hug...someone to wipe my tears away and say 'You must feel like crap.'

Most people haven't got a clue what to say. I was avoided in town by people I had known for years....as if the boys deaths were contagious.

Im a great fan of the written word. Sending an email or a letter - not so much a text because its hard to tell the emotion in them. Nowadays, when people ask how many children I have or how I am feeling I tell them truthfully. Some days it is that I am genuinly fine and other days it is 'dont talk to me or come near me.'